Help!! Jotul 500 not heating 1200 sq ft

[Blessed]

Alright. I've done my homework on this site and I know you'll think I'm crazy, but I need help. Here's my setup: 1200 sq ft, old house, attic insulated & some wall insulation, 10 ft ceilings, decent windows, and stove is centrally located.

Problem 1. It is cold in my house. We have a ceiling fan above the stove and a box fan behind it. On a good day it is 57F in my side rooms and on a bad day it is 47F. I am jealous of all of you who are warm. What do I need to do to be warm like you?

Problem 2. Horrible burn time. I have to leave the air control wide open to sustain 400F. I know I need to extend the chimney to get a better draft (6" chimney liner, 14 ft tall, insulated by theramix) but that won't happen until spring. If I crack the ash pan I can get up to 525. If we try to move the air control lever, fire goes out. Since I can't move air lever to 1/4 or 1/3 we only get a max of 3 hrs of burn. It looks like other people have 20'-24' chimneys. Would 20' be a good place to start?

I know next year will be better. It's a tough learning curve. Thank you for your help.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. The stove should perform better than that in cold weather, even with a slightly short chimney. Can you describe how the stove is connected to the chimney? Are there elbows or is it straight up?

This really sounds like partially seasoned wood. Damp wood simply won't produce good heat. You might try picking up a couple bundles of dry wood at the supermarket or hardware store and see if it makes a big difference.

 

[Blessed]

Stove pipe goes up approx 4' to a 45, then 2' to a 90 into the chimney liner which has its own 90. If I knocked down a wall I could take out the 45. I just didn't think it would make that much of a difference.
Since we got a late start I bought mixed hardwood (split 2 yrs ago) while my wood gets seasoned. It has been so cold and I was so desperate we bought some kiln dried wood. It only burned slightly better.

 

[begreen]

Bummer. So it goes up 4 ft from the stove, then jogs over to the chimney, then up another 14 ft.? Or is 14 ft the total vertical rise?

Some more questions so that I can visualize the setup. Is the connector pipe single-wall or double-wall? Is the chimney interior or exterior. And finally, is there a clean-out on the chimney?

 

[Blessed]

Yes it goes up 4 ft from the stove, then jogs over to the chimney, then up another 14 ft. Double walled stove pipe. Interior Chimney. Not sure what a clean out is so I'm guessing I don't have one.

 

[begreen]

That's 18' of vertical rise. Even with the elbows, with double wall pipe I would expect better performance. How large are the pieces of wood that are being burnt?

You are getting some response from the air control, correct? That is, with the fire going, if the air control is closed down say half-way, does the stove flame reduce in intensity?

 

[Blessed]

That's 18' of vertical rise. Even with the elbows, with double wall pipe I would expect better performance. How large are the pieces of wood that are being burnt? You are getting some response from the air control, correct? That is, with the fire going, if the air control is closed down say half-way, does the stove flame reduce in intensity?

I use 20" and 12" cuts and they are both small and large diameters. I normally put in four pieces at a time. I put the 12s diagonally and 20s on top so good airflow gets to the coal bed. Yes I get response from the air control. When I turn it down the flames quickly die down.

 

[Blessed]

Do you think a fresh air vent would help? I'm hesitant to use a blower because of the noise and the number of people who have success without one. But would a blower make that big of a difference pushing the air? I can deal with the short burn times for now if only I was warm between loads. What if I put my 45 at the stove and ran up 6' diagonally to the 90?

 

[begreen]

The stove feeds air from the front. On the coal bed, instead of placing the 12" logs diagonally try placing three of them North/South, parallel to the sides, like sleeper logs. Have about 4" between each 12" split. This will allow air to flow from front to back. The idea is to create a tunnel under the next layer of logs. Then place thinner 20" splits (2-3" splits) on top of the 12" logs, allowing a 1/2" gap between them, on top of this place full sized (4-6") x 20" splits. Run the stove wide open for about 15-30 minutes. That should char all of the wood and the fire should be fully engaged. Now close the air about 1/3. Secondary combustion should start to get strong and the stove top temperature should increase rapidly. If this is the case, move the air control to 1/2 and watch the top temps plus the fire. Ideally you want to achieve wafting, bluish-orange flames at this point, dancing on top of the logs. If this is what you see, don't touch anything and watch the stove top temp. It should increase.

Tomorrow, if you can, take some binoculars or a ladder and inspect the flue cap closely for plugging. You should have enough flue height, but if the cap is plugged then it won't matter. The cap screen could be plugged with newspaper ashes from previous fire starts. If it is plugged, the draft will be poor.

 

[BJ64]

I am going to ask a few questions to get an idea of what we think could be the problem so far.

Q1

Can we assume the problem to be air flow related - not enough draft? I'm going to assume his firewood is fine since kiln dried wood did not heat much better.

Q2

Could there be a possible air leak into the chimney liner after the 90 degree elbow from the stove?

 

[begreen]

Q2 is what I'm wondering about. That's why I asked if there is a clean out. If there is a tee there and the cap is loose or fell off, not good. Or if there is a lower leg on the tee that meet a not so tight cleanout door, that would be bad too.

 

[cgeiger]

Blessed - excellent points by BeGreen and BJ64. Here's a few more questions to help diagnose the problem.

1. Do you see your burn tubes up top spitting out air? If you aren't getting secondary burn (which it sounds like you aren't) look for "holes" in the flames when they shoot up in front of the tubes. Just want to be sure you don't have a problem with them.
2. When you start the fire or put on new splits have you tried cracking the side door instead of the ash pan door until everything gets really going? If so, was everything good and charred up before you tried backing the air off to 75 or 50 percent?
3. How full are you loading the firebox? I've found in mine that I can get to 400-500 with a half load but the Oslo really sings when it gets a full load with smaller splits filling the gaps between the larger ones
4. Where is your stove thermometer?

 

[learnin to burn]

Looking at the manual for your stove on the Jotul site it looks like there is an air inlet on the bottom heat shield behind the ash pan. See if that has a knock out in it or if it is being blocked somehow.

 

[jotul8e2]

3. How full are you loading the firebox? I've found in mine that I can get to 400-500 with a half load but the Oslo really sings when it gets a full load with smaller splits filling the gaps between the larger ones

Every setup will behave differently, and I need at least a 3/4 load to get 500 deg. That large firebox has to be full, and it takes a surprising amount of wood to fill it. Even if stacked high with kiln-dried kindling, if it is only 12" long or so is not going to heat up the stove. And as noted above, unless you get secondary combustion going you will not get the heat output you want.

Mark

 

[weezer4117]

figuring out your draft issue is the number one concern, but i have one more suggestion after that has been done. place your fans in other rooms of the house and blow the cold air towards the stove. call me crazy but i did this and it was a night and day difference. aslo run your celing fan counter clockwise on low speed, see if that makes any difference. of course this will only improve if you figure out the draft issue. just some thoughts to think about!!

 

[ansehnlich1]

My Oslo takes some time to get it going good. I always leave the side door open until the stove top temperature reaches about 300 degrees, as measured by a rutland thermometer sitting in the back right corner of the stove top. Then I close the side door. In short order the thing begins to take off and I then let the temperature climb to about 600 degrees. I then back off the air to half way, then shortly thereafter back off to a quarter or less open.

Unless you have 2 or 3 inches of red hot coals in that stove, you ain't gonna get a get burn with two 20 inch splits resting on two 12 inchers.

Make sure your wood is seasoned, you MUST get a moisture meter, then SPLIT YOUR WOOD and test the INSIDE of a split for moisture content. The Oslo will NOT give you good performance unless your wood is dry, say, 20% moisture content or less. Less is better.

When making a fire start with copious amounts of split up 2x4's or pallets, then small stuff on top, then some larger stuff.... Fill the firebox full, leave the side door open, leave the temps go up to 300 or more degrees, then close the door. If it smothers out, open the side door again and let 'er rip some more.

See what that does for you. No reason your setup shouldn't be throwing heat unless you have a chimney cap that's clogged, or are sucking big time air into your chimney from a source other than the Oslo.

 

[firefighterjake]

Alright. I've done my homework on this site and I know you'll think I'm crazy, but I need help. Here's my setup: 1200 sq ft, old house, attic insulated & some wall insulation, 10 ft ceilings, decent windows, and stove is centrally located.

Problem 1. It is cold in my house. We have a ceiling fan above the stove and a box fan behind it. On a good day it is 57F in my side rooms and on a bad day it is 47F. I am jealous of all of you who are warm. What do I need to do to be warm like you?

Problem 2. Horrible burn time. I have to leave the air control wide open to sustain 400F. I know I need to extend the chimney to get a better draft (6" chimney liner, 14 ft tall, insulated by theramix) but that won't happen until spring. If I crack the ash pan I can get up to 525. If we try to move the air control lever, fire goes out. Since I can't move air lever to 1/4 or 1/3 we only get a max of 3 hrs of burn. It looks like other people have 20'-24' chimneys. Would 20' be a good place to start?

I know next year will be better. It's a tough learning curve. Thank you for your help.

Nah, we don't think you're crazy . . . just a guy who has a problem and needs some help in tracking down the cause since quite honestly you should be nice and toasty warm with the lay-out you're describing with temps in the high 60s or 70s in the rooms adjacent to the room where your stove is located.

At first I thought it was your fuel supply . . . but based on your two-year-old firewood supply and description of burning I really think it sounds like an air supply/drafting problem (not to be confused with the capitalized Air Supply problem which is an entirely different rock and roll problem ). If you have a good fuel supply, a good air supply and a good draft you should be cruising to 600 degrees plus with the air control wide open and the ash pan door open . . . in fact all things being equal you should be able to cruise to 600 degrees just with the air control wide open and the side door left ajar in a matter of 10 or 15 minutes . . . and then cutting back the air at those temps should result in the dazzling light show spectacular as secondary combustion kicks in rather than having the fire die.

Folks here have given you some suggestions as to where to look . . . hopefully you can get this problem solved and be warm in no time . . . don't worry . . . together we can all work through this and get you to where you want to be . . . that is . . . nice and toasty warm.

 

[stoveguy13]

needing keep air open to keep 400 degs is most likely wet wood.

 

[oconnor]

needing keep air open to keep 400 degs is most likely wet wood.

We can't assume it's wet wood, what we know is that it's not a hot burn - draft or moisture or both or more could be the issue. You are right, often wet wood is the issue, but not always. I remember one thread where a fellow was being told it was wet wood, when it was actually the fact that his insert was "slammed" into the fireplace with no liner - it was a draft issue, just not the "wet wood" kind.

Blessed, I have my fire lighting technique linked in my signature block below, give it a try and see what you get. Even with wet wood, I was able to get the insert hot quickly. My guess is, if you try the same and still get low heat output, then you are looking for a mechanical draft issue (flue height, elbows and blockages etc) instead of a damp wood that makes no draft issue. Basicly, I used 10 or so small kindling splits (1 to 2 inch), criss crossed, and birch bark for tinder, and light them up. That will get me 750*F in short order.

Hope you are getting warmer sooner than later.

 

[Blessed]

The stove feeds air from the front. On the coal bed, instead of placing the 12" logs diagonally try placing three of them North/South, parallel to the sides, like sleeper logs. Have about 4" between each 12" split. This will allow air to flow from front to back. The idea is to create a tunnel under the next layer of logs. Then place thinner 20" splits (2-3" splits) on top of the 12" logs, allowing a 1/2" gap between them, on top of this place full sized (4-6") x 20" splits. Run the stove wide open for about 15-30 minutes. That should char all of the wood and the fire should be fully engaged. Now close the air about 1/3. Secondary combustion should start to get strong and the stove top temperature should increase rapidly. If this is the case, move the air control to 1/2 and watch the top temps plus the fire. Ideally you want to achieve wafting, bluish-orange flames at this point, dancing on top of the logs. If this is what you see, don't touch anything and watch the stove top temp. It should increase.

Tomorrow, if you can, take some binoculars or a ladder and inspect the flue cap closely for plugging. You should have enough flue height, but if the cap is plugged then it won't matter. The cap screen could be plugged with newspaper ashes from previous fire starts. If it is plugged, the draft will be poor.

Tried to follow wood loading suggestion last night. Stove reached 490, backed air off by 1/3 and side room temp was 59F. Temp dropped to 475. I woke up shivering five hours later with the stove reading 200F & 1 inch of coals with the temp in the side room at 53F.

Didn't get a chance to look at the flue cap today. Had a regular cap but installed a jiffy pop draft inducing topper two months ago. Hoping it isn't clogged already since we have been starting fires with fire bricks not newspaper. As a side note, stove seems to burn hotter when it is below 15F outside or a windy day.

 

[Blessed]

Blessed - excellent points by BeGreen and BJ64. Here's a few more questions to help diagnose the problem.

1. Do you see your burn tubes up top spitting out air? If you aren't getting secondary burn (which it sounds like you aren't) look for "holes" in the flames when they shoot up in front of the tubes. Just want to be sure you don't have a problem with them.
2. When you start the fire or put on new splits have you tried cracking the side door instead of the ash pan door until everything gets really going? If so, was everything good and charred up before you tried backing the air off to 75 or 50 percent?
3. How full are you loading the firebox? I've found in mine that I can get to 400-500 with a half load but the Oslo really sings when it gets a full load with smaller splits filling the gaps between the larger ones
4. Where is your stove thermometer?

Yes I see air holes in our flames. It takes a while to get there though. We have cracked the side door but as soon as the wood touches the coals it begins smoking and this tends to enter the room. In my case using the ash pan eliminates smoke rollout and more evenly chars the wood. The only time we have been able to drop the air control to 1/4 or 1/2 open was when winds exceeded 30mph with the draft inducing topper. We seem to get about 3 hrs burn time whether the box is full or not. Thermometer is on back right corner.

 

[Blessed]

Looking at the manual for your stove on the Jotul site it looks like there is an air inlet on the bottom heat shield behind the ash pan. See if that has a knock out in it or if it is being blocked somehow.

I just looked and from what I can tell the air inlet isn't obstructed.

 

[begreen]

Blessed - excellent points by BeGreen and BJ64. Here's a few more questions to help diagnose the problem.

1. Do you see your burn tubes up top spitting out air? If you aren't getting secondary burn (which it sounds like you aren't) look for "holes" in the flames when they shoot up in front of the tubes. Just want to be sure you don't have a problem with them.
2. When you start the fire or put on new splits have you tried cracking the side door instead of the ash pan door until everything gets really going? If so, was everything good and charred up before you tried backing the air off to 75 or 50 percent?
3. How full are you loading the firebox? I've found in mine that I can get to 400-500 with a half load but the Oslo really sings when it gets a full load with smaller splits filling the gaps between the larger ones
4. Where is your stove thermometer?

Yes I see air holes in our flames. It takes a while to get there though. We have cracked the side door but as soon as the wood touches the coals it begins smoking and this tends to enter the room. In my case using the ash pan eliminates smoke rollout and more evenly chars the wood. The only time we have been able to drop the air control to 1/4 or 1/2 open was when winds exceeded 30mph with the draft inducing topper. We seem to get about 3 hrs burn time whether the box is full or not. Thermometer is on back right corner.

Would it be possible to burn for a day or two with no cap on the flue?

 

[Blessed]

Would it be possible to burn for a day or two with no cap on the flue?[/quote]

Mod-I checked out your links. I am currently looking at vertical flames over 1/2 of the stove width and 2nd burn over 1/3. I'll play with wood placement and air control adjustment to make sure I have opt burn. It'll be a few days before I can take off the topper with snow & ice on the roof. In the mean time I'll try the other suggestions of moving cold air toward the stove, getting a moisture meter, and finding a way to measure draft. I played with ceiling fan directions and my ceiling fan is turning the correct way. As a side note, do you know of Jotul ever offering a dark gray enamel? I think my salesman is a little shady. I've never seen this color and in my owner's manual it came with a sticker for green and blue/black to put on the rear heat shield.

 

[jotul8e2]

Yes I see air holes in our flames. It takes a while to get there though. We have cracked the side door but as soon as the wood touches the coals it begins smoking and this tends to enter the room. In my case using the ash pan eliminates smoke rollout and more evenly chars the wood. The only time we have been able to drop the air control to 1/4 or 1/2 open was when winds exceeded 30mph with the draft inducing topper. We seem to get about 3 hrs burn time whether the box is full or not. Thermometer is on back right corner.

I have been following this from afar, so to speak, but your comment about smoke entering the room with the side door open, along with the air control comment makes me think about some kind of draft problem. One of the favorite features of the Oslo is the virtually smoke-free side door loading. There is no question I could leave the side door open on mine indefinitely without any smoke entering the room. This is true even when I have a 600 cfm range exhaust going in the very next room.

Mark