Help!! Jotul 500 not heating 1200 sq ft

[begreen]

Would it be possible to burn for a day or two with no cap on the flue?

Mod-I checked out your links. I am currently looking at vertical flames over 1/2 of the stove width and 2nd burn over 1/3. I'll play with wood placement and air control adjustment to make sure I have opt burn. It'll be a few days before I can take off the topper with snow & ice on the roof. In the mean time I'll try the other suggestions of moving cold air toward the stove, getting a moisture meter, and finding a way to measure draft. I played with ceiling fan directions and my ceiling fan is turning the correct way. As a side note, do you know of Jotul ever offering a dark gray enamel? I think my salesman is a little shady. I've never seen this color and in my owner's manual it came with a sticker for green and blue/black to put on the rear heat shield.[/quote]

Yes, it's not going to hurt to run for a day or two without the cap, though preferably not during monsoon rains. If removing the cap causes a dramatic change in draft, then the cap will need closer looking at. While the cap is off you will have a chance to check the flue pipe for accumulation.

 

[cgeiger]

Yes I see air holes in our flames. It takes a while to get there though. We have cracked the side door but as soon as the wood touches the coals it begins smoking and this tends to enter the room. In my case using the ash pan eliminates smoke rollout and more evenly chars the wood. The only time we have been able to drop the air control to 1/4 or 1/2 open was when winds exceeded 30mph with the draft inducing topper. We seem to get about 3 hrs burn time whether the box is full or not. Thermometer is on back right corner.

I have been following this from afar, so to speak, but your comment about smoke entering the room with the side door open, along with the air control comment makes me think about some kind of draft problem. One of the favorite features of the Oslo is the virtually smoke-free side door loading. There is no question I could leave the side door open on mine indefinitely without any smoke entering the room. This is true even when I have a 600 cfm range exhaust going in the very next room.

Mark

I have to agree with Mark on this one, Blessed. Your comment about smoke entering the room if you open the side door points to a draft problem in my opinion. I too can leave the side door open indefinitely with no smoke issues other than if I'm starting her cold on a warmer day (temps in the upper 40s). y.

Also, with regard to getting your house warm, pushing the cold air into your room will definitely help. I have a 2,300 square foot home that I keep heated with my stove to around 63-65 when it's down in the 20s/low 30s. I do this with a ceiling fan in the stove room mixing the warm and cold air and 2 box fans pushing cold air into the room.

As a test, you can try what I did to check airflow: Take a napkin and roll/twist it up tight. Light the napkin for a moment and then blow it out (incense sticks also work well for this). You should now have a good, slow source of smoke. Hold it at various heights and on either side of the doorway(s) into your stove room and adjacent rooms and observe where the smoke goes. This will help you "see" how the air is moving and position your fans accordingly. I just did this over the weekend, and noticed that half way up both of my stove room doors the air flows out and half way down it flows in. So now, I have both fans, pushing air in down low.

As a side note, be sure to carry around an ash tray or something to catch the ash of whatever smoke source you're using.

 

[firefighterjake]

Yes I see air holes in our flames. It takes a while to get there though. We have cracked the side door but as soon as the wood touches the coals it begins smoking and this tends to enter the room. In my case using the ash pan eliminates smoke rollout and more evenly chars the wood. The only time we have been able to drop the air control to 1/4 or 1/2 open was when winds exceeded 30mph with the draft inducing topper. We seem to get about 3 hrs burn time whether the box is full or not. Thermometer is on back right corner.

I have been following this from afar, so to speak, but your comment about smoke entering the room with the side door open, along with the air control comment makes me think about some kind of draft problem. One of the favorite features of the Oslo is the virtually smoke-free side door loading. There is no question I could leave the side door open on mine indefinitely without any smoke entering the room. This is true even when I have a 600 cfm range exhaust going in the very next room.

Mark

Agreed . . . draft problem of some sort based on what he has mentioned about smoke coming out the side door and the problem with the air control. Not that I would recommend it, but as you mentioned you can leave the side door open for a long time and no smoke should enter the room . . . in fact as many folks know this stove can also be operated with the front door entirely open (with a wire mesh screen that fits on to the front) for the ambiance of an open fire . . . smoke should most definitely not be coming out of the Oslo's doors.

 

[stoveguy13]

Check the wood moister content how long has it been stacked and split for?

 

[fattire]

Another vote for draft problem. We can open the side door with air control in any position without smoke coming out, even with just a smoldering fire.

 

[oconnor]

Edit - with the amount of cold burning on the stove to date, any blockage may be in the flue vice just the cap, so a sweeping is likely in order, regardless of what is causing the problem.

Poor draft is a symptom, not a problem. Saying it is a draft problem is a bit of a truism - if the smoke doesn't rise, it has to be draft by definition. The question still remains, what is the cause of the draft problem? Or to rephrase, why is there a draft problem?

Unless it is a mechanical restriction (blocked flue) or there are serious depressurization sources in the house (exhaust fans, real bad stack effect etc) even the worst poor draft issue should be able to be heated up to the point where the flue draft can keep the smoke in the stove and burn hot. Have any of us actually seen a situation where, with a clean flue and dry wood, that we can't get a stove up to temps once the burn is established because the systemic draft (basement install etc) was so bad that the fire would not eventually burn?

Once a mechanical blockage is ruled out, I would still look at the wood supply as a source of the cool temps that, as a result of water content, aren't allowing flue temps to rise to a level that will create the required draft, and hence smoke exits the stove when doors are opened.

Remember the fire triangle - air, fuel, heat - draft is just the air side (air out of and air in to the stove), and fuel and heat affect it a lot. Wet fuel gives less heat and poor draft. Again, draft is the (important) symptom, not the problem. I think fuel is the likely problem.

 

[stoveguy13]

Wet wood causes poor draft and will also cause smoking back into the house i would not try to over think this the wood is the most likely factor check the wood and make sure it is dry and then try to figure it out from there the wood is the best place to start

 

[annette]

I think it's your draft, but your wood may be wet enough to hurt things, too.

I don't have a Jotul, but I do have a short interior chimney. When I was planning my installation, I read several times here that every bend in the pipe and chimney reduces draft, to where you should consider your chimney to be shorter because of all the bends. I don't recall the actual amounts, but I remember people writing that a ninety degree bend effectively shortens a chimney by a few feet. Since 14 feet is already the minimum chimney height (for my stove, I don't know what Jotul specifies), I really think this is a draft issue.

My chimney is about 16 feet, with 2 45s, and I consider my draft to be not so great. I have to keep the door cracked when starting cold. Once the stovetop is 300 or 350, I fully close the door, then start to close the air supply at 375 or 400. After that, in normal weather 4 splits of wood will get the stove into the 500s or 600s.

I can close my air supply completely and maintain a fire, but since I don't have your stove, that may be more because of my stove's design than a comment on your draft. But you mentioned that if you leave a door cracked, the smoke enters the room--that totally seems like a draft issue. Having the door cracked should blast air into the stove, igniting the wood and heating the stove up quickly.

If your wood has been split for 2 years it really should be burning well, but that hiss you hear isn't something I hear with my dry wood. Unless you are storing it uncovered? How many loads of store-bought stuff did you try? One load to get the stove hot, then breaking up the big coals and plopping more kiln-dried wood on top should make your stove take off!

How warm does your stove room get? I'm assuming it's warm, since your stove does get into the 4- and 500s. To move air in my house, I have a small box fan pulling cold air from down the hallway towards the stove room. It is tilted back against the wall, and it blows up at the stove and pushes the hot air up and across the room. I have a small fan on the floor of my bedroom, pulling air along the floor and pushing it down the hallway towards the stove room fan.

I hope you get this solved, even if it means bolting some chimney contraption onto the top of your chimney! Good luck.

 

[Blessed]

Thank you for all your expert advice The smoking napking technique (see previous post) revealed a major problem. The stove pipe did not seal properly where it connects to the stove. I'm using a double walled universal adapter. The bottom of the inside wall is corrugated so another piece can be mounted to it. This means it was only 5.75" and wasn't sealing against the 6" stove opening. A significant amount of air from the living room was being sucked into the stove pipe. Nothing the angle grinder couldn't fix I cleaned the stove pipe & chimney liner & stove & fixed the air leak. I'm stacking the wood in the firebox so it is fuller and has more air gaps for better burn. It's like a whole new stove. There's no smoke when I have the side door open!! Blowing the cold air in from the other room made a huge difference, too. We're gonna make it!

This is my rookie year and the wood I bought had been split for two years but was stored uncovered outside. I'm sure its not 20% but it's better than burning the stuff I just split this November. In the spring I'll tweak the chimney for optimal draft. Next winter I'll be burning my wood: then I'll be getting the heat and burn times that you all are getting. Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the update blessed. Sounds like you are on the path to success. Wood burning is still a learning experience for all of us. You're doing great by being curious and asking good questions. Be sure to get next season's wood purchased or cut by spring and drying all summer. Then cover the tops in fall and you will be burning like an expert next November.