Makes sense. Fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand until I'm happy with it. I forgot to mention that I got the cast bear feet with it, too. Think I'll paint those, too. Silver, like the tree's?
Help me choose a bigger wood stove
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Makes sense. Fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand until I'm happy with it. I forgot to mention that I got the cast bear feet with it, too. Think I'll paint those, too. Silver, like the tree's?
Depends on what feet.
If they are magnetic, they face forward, and could be chrome, or brass plated or finished with black similar to gun blueing called iron oxide. If they are original Black Oxide with no rust I'd trade you a good (like new) white brass plated set. I see them gong for up to 400 a set now. Just because I don't have a black set and have plenty of the angled sets with good plating.
The early iron feet were chrome plated, some had Fisher Stoves across them, others were smooth. They had no hair detail. Then they were cast with hair detail, and plated with white brass or iron oxide finish. Black was cheaper and the white brass, iron straight forward facing are quit rare. Finally they were made from white metal, angled outward when installed and are only white brass plated. They are the most common seen going for up to 400 a set. They sold for 3.50 each.
Doors were painted black.
Highlighting trees and lettering was to look like the later plated doors with polished highlights.
This is plated doors before paint.
After painting, paint was wiped off raised areas with mineral spirits before final cure with heat.
No flat top doors were plated. Here is a custom nickel plated Grandma. That's what you're imitating with paint.
A nickel plated Mama. These are custom, originally black.
Highlighting trees and lettering was to look like the later plated doors with polished highlights.
This is plated doors before paint.
After painting, paint was wiped off raised areas with mineral spirits before final cure with heat.No flat top doors were plated. Here is a custom nickel plated Grandma. That's what you're imitating with paint.
A nickel plated Mama. These are custom, originally black.
I’m guessing I got a good batch of the Rustoleum High Heat. For me it sprays even, looks great and holds its looks for several years. I used it on plenty of Stoves and it’s purchased locally.
I’d recommend it
!
I’d recommend it
!Next time order some aw perkins paint. You will realize that the rust-oleum isn't greatI’m guessing I got a good batch of the Rustoleum High Heat. For me it sprays even, looks great and holds its looks for several years. I used it on plenty of Stoves and it’s purchased locally.
I’d recommend it
Here's the feet. They are a roughish casting, and heavy for their size.....
Are these supposed to be black, or ????? I'm not replating anything here, so they'll either get painted black or silver......
Are these supposed to be black, or ????? I'm not replating anything here, so they'll either get painted black or silver......
Does a magnet stick? I see no rust, so they don't look like the heavy iron fakes. They look like very poor condition plated white metal from basement use. If a magnet doesn't stick, wipe the inside with something like Scotch Bright and see if you find the markings shown below.
The angled feet are lightweight compared to the older straight cast iron. Made from pot metal, not magnetic and have hair detail like it was etched on with an engraver. They are marked Fisher Int Eugene Oregon (Fisher International) inside with 4 round marks in the corners. If they are originals, WD-40 soaked Scotch Bright or metal polish is as good as it gets. This was a rough one, I use a Q-tip with metal polish between the toes. It will look good, but not like new.
Here is a close up of the inside that looks silver due to flash;
Rust inside is from leg being in them for years.
Color changes with surrounding light and flash. This is the texture of hair detail.
A new set. One night around midnight, maybe 20 years ago I was on eBay and the set was listed for $25 new in box. I hit the Buy it now, and told the wife. She wasn't happy since I had other sets, but not in this condition. The owners bought them in an antique shop and had them sitting around their house for years, never on a stove. They were the cheapest feet I ever bought except for a set on a Baby Bear for $80 and sold the stove for a whole lot more without the feet!
Below is the older straight forward facing feet. All straight facing feet are cast iron. All angled are white metal.
The first pic is the first cast iron, chrome plated that came with or without Fisher on them. They are smooth with no hair detail;
This is the common condition found that still sell upwards of 300 to 400. Some were cast with a hole in the bottom, others solid. Depends on mold used.
This is a good condition older set.
And this is the condition rarely found that will cost more than the stove.
They were used as advertising from this Canadian dealer and are found sold separately;
This is a set I got like new for 163.50 years ago on eBay. Cast iron with hair detail, plated with white brass. They are now quite rare.
This set sold for $178 in January 2014. They are the Black Oxide. Back then an angled set could be found for $100 and I was willing to pay 150 for these. I was outbid. Now I'd be lucky to get a set for 200. They could sell for 300-400. Wouldn't be the first stove I bought for the feet!
Close up of black Oxide finish with hair detail. Fair condition.
Below are fakes. Here they are when cast with iron; no detail or markings.
They appeared in 2014 and have resurfaced from different sellers since. Sometimes the starting price is the same as genuine.
These reproductions were sold out of Washington state years ago cast with bronze;
So far all reproductions have no hair detail.
Original feet came with a set of washers to set in the foot to level the stove to keep them from rocking on brick and stone hearths. They are stove levelers for uneven surfaces instead of the original ball feet with a set screw to level.
The angled feet are lightweight compared to the older straight cast iron. Made from pot metal, not magnetic and have hair detail like it was etched on with an engraver. They are marked Fisher Int Eugene Oregon (Fisher International) inside with 4 round marks in the corners. If they are originals, WD-40 soaked Scotch Bright or metal polish is as good as it gets. This was a rough one, I use a Q-tip with metal polish between the toes. It will look good, but not like new.
Here is a close up of the inside that looks silver due to flash;
Rust inside is from leg being in them for years. Color changes with surrounding light and flash. This is the texture of hair detail. A new set. One night around midnight, maybe 20 years ago I was on eBay and the set was listed for $25 new in box. I hit the Buy it now, and told the wife. She wasn't happy since I had other sets, but not in this condition. The owners bought them in an antique shop and had them sitting around their house for years, never on a stove. They were the cheapest feet I ever bought except for a set on a Baby Bear for $80 and sold the stove for a whole lot more without the feet!Below is the older straight forward facing feet. All straight facing feet are cast iron. All angled are white metal.
The first pic is the first cast iron, chrome plated that came with or without Fisher on them. They are smooth with no hair detail;
This is the common condition found that still sell upwards of 300 to 400. Some were cast with a hole in the bottom, others solid. Depends on mold used. This is a good condition older set. And this is the condition rarely found that will cost more than the stove.They were used as advertising from this Canadian dealer and are found sold separately;
This is a set I got like new for 163.50 years ago on eBay. Cast iron with hair detail, plated with white brass. They are now quite rare. This set sold for $178 in January 2014. They are the Black Oxide. Back then an angled set could be found for $100 and I was willing to pay 150 for these. I was outbid. Now I'd be lucky to get a set for 200. They could sell for 300-400. Wouldn't be the first stove I bought for the feet! Close up of black Oxide finish with hair detail. Fair condition.Below are fakes. Here they are when cast with iron; no detail or markings.
They appeared in 2014 and have resurfaced from different sellers since. Sometimes the starting price is the same as genuine.These reproductions were sold out of Washington state years ago cast with bronze;
So far all reproductions have no hair detail.Original feet came with a set of washers to set in the foot to level the stove to keep them from rocking on brick and stone hearths. They are stove levelers for uneven surfaces instead of the original ball feet with a set screw to level.
Here is my feet. Straight, cast iron And magnetic. The ball feet on the stove would not move so I left them on and used washers in the feet to balance and level out the stove. They are in like new condition. The feet and balls are personal taste and not loved by everyone. I put an extra layer of brick under the stove as it gets very hot under there. There are 2 previous layers underneath. So 3 layers of brick. The brick are being replaced with 4 inches of granite this year.
Attachments
Thanks for the tip. I will try that this year if it is a rattle can. Where do I purchase it?
I took one of my feet briefly to the buffing wheel, and found shiny plated metal underneath the grime. They are non magnetic, and have the hair detail you described above. This one is in great condition under the grime.
They should clean up nicely. Not sure how well the picture shows the condition, as I only spent about 5 minutes cleaning this one up.
They should clean up nicely. Not sure how well the picture shows the condition, as I only spent about 5 minutes cleaning this one up.
That's patina!
Go easy on the plating. They are genuine.
I soak stuff like that in PB blaster, diesel or kerosene a couple days to loosen the gunk.
Then take small stuff in the house and polish with Maas Metal polish by hand.
This must be only junk on the surface, not corrosion. Very fixable.
Question about door gaskets. Are they necessary? This stove has no evidence of ever having door rope gaskets installed on it.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
No. Only Fisher stoves with glass use gasket material. Not having door gaskets to maintain was a benefit of the brand requiring no maintenance of door seals.
The 1 inch channel iron welded to stove front is the door seal. Keep it clean as well as the back of the doors at sealing area. The raised portion on door makes contact with the center web of channel iron. The edges of channel make contact on rear of door creating a 3 point seal all the way around.
There is no clearance for gasket material. Notice when door is shut, the space from the back of door to stove front is the thickness of the channel iron web. If door hinge pins are never greased they can wear and become loose. Grease them with high temp grease or silver anti-seize. (Also keep bolt threads greased through intake opening on back of door for intake dampers) If hinge pins or hinge plates wear, many add flat gasket material made for glass installation to the channel iron. Others are used to door gaskets and think it is missing, so mistakenly add it. Some will seal better with flat gasket added, depending on how well the hinge plates were adjusted when welded in place, but were considered air-tight without it. The stove was laid on its back, door centered on seal, and hinge plates tacked to be sure of sealing before welding fully. When gasket is added, make sure as people replace it the old cement to hold it in place was removed. A build up prevents the door from closing properly, and there is no room for round door gasket material.
Since you have a milling machine capable of surfacing door seal area, remove no more than .050 material. This was specified on original drawings. Grandpa Left Door measurements with note #5 below. Notes 1-4 are on Right Door drawing.
If anyone is concerned about making a perfect seal, lay stove on back, remove hinge pins and apply course grinding compound to door seal area. Lap the door to sealing channel until gray metal color is consistent the same as you would for steam valves and fittings. This is a skill acquired by practice. This will machine the two parts to fit perfectly together.
The 1 inch channel iron welded to stove front is the door seal. Keep it clean as well as the back of the doors at sealing area. The raised portion on door makes contact with the center web of channel iron. The edges of channel make contact on rear of door creating a 3 point seal all the way around.
There is no clearance for gasket material. Notice when door is shut, the space from the back of door to stove front is the thickness of the channel iron web. If door hinge pins are never greased they can wear and become loose. Grease them with high temp grease or silver anti-seize. (Also keep bolt threads greased through intake opening on back of door for intake dampers) If hinge pins or hinge plates wear, many add flat gasket material made for glass installation to the channel iron. Others are used to door gaskets and think it is missing, so mistakenly add it. Some will seal better with flat gasket added, depending on how well the hinge plates were adjusted when welded in place, but were considered air-tight without it. The stove was laid on its back, door centered on seal, and hinge plates tacked to be sure of sealing before welding fully. When gasket is added, make sure as people replace it the old cement to hold it in place was removed. A build up prevents the door from closing properly, and there is no room for round door gasket material.
Since you have a milling machine capable of surfacing door seal area, remove no more than .050 material. This was specified on original drawings. Grandpa Left Door measurements with note #5 below. Notes 1-4 are on Right Door drawing.
If anyone is concerned about making a perfect seal, lay stove on back, remove hinge pins and apply course grinding compound to door seal area. Lap the door to sealing channel until gray metal color is consistent the same as you would for steam valves and fittings. This is a skill acquired by practice. This will machine the two parts to fit perfectly together.
Thanks for the thorough reply. I've ground most of the pitting out of the top, and am just waiting on the arrival of the paint. New firebrick will go in after I get it painted. First fire will be outside (and maybe 2nd, too) as I don't want to smell the off gassing. I have a 5' section of black stove pipe that came with it that will work well for this.......
Good news and bad news......
Good news
I got the stove wire wheeled, all the old broken firebrick out, and new firebrick installed. Sand blasted the doors, and got everything painted with the Stove Bright satin black.
After installing the new firebrick, this morning I made a baffle plate out of 3/8" plate. This is what I had multiple sheets of (I fabricate a lot for my business), so I cut a piece 14" wide and 26.5" long, which is what just barely fits inside with a serious game of tetris twister.
Instead of cutting down existing angle iron that was way too big for this job, which is what I have on hand, I used some 1.25" wide flat bar and welded it in place to sit on top of firebrick pieces that I cut to fit. The firebrick sits on top of the lower course, and registers against the angle already installed at the factory to hold the lower firebrick in place. Worked great. Doesn't move at all.
The bad news is, I didn't do my research on these pre-1980 Fisher stoves well enough. The damned flue opening in the top of the Grandpa Bear stove is 7 5/8". 8" black single wall pipe does NOT fit in it, and crimping it only made a funnel that will, no way, no how, be safe enough to seal right. After messing around with crimpers all danged morning long, and basically making a mess of my (former) good stove pipe, I found a guy on ebay who makes a stainless adapter to go from 7 5/8" to 8".
I don't think my welded seam 8" stove pipe will be reusable, as once I cut the crimp off, it'll be too short. They come in 4' sections, and I mangled both of them pretty good trying to pound the damned assembly down into the stove from above with a 12' ladder......yep, I'm an idiot some days.
So, an expensive mess to clean up. Ordering new everything, and I'll report back with pictures of either a beautifully painted all new Fisher stove, or perhaps a video of a Grandpa Bear stove getting launched and blown apart with a couple of barrels of gunpowder....depending on whether or not my mood improves by tomorrow.
Good news
I got the stove wire wheeled, all the old broken firebrick out, and new firebrick installed. Sand blasted the doors, and got everything painted with the Stove Bright satin black.
After installing the new firebrick, this morning I made a baffle plate out of 3/8" plate. This is what I had multiple sheets of (I fabricate a lot for my business), so I cut a piece 14" wide and 26.5" long, which is what just barely fits inside with a serious game of tetris twister.
Instead of cutting down existing angle iron that was way too big for this job, which is what I have on hand, I used some 1.25" wide flat bar and welded it in place to sit on top of firebrick pieces that I cut to fit. The firebrick sits on top of the lower course, and registers against the angle already installed at the factory to hold the lower firebrick in place. Worked great. Doesn't move at all.
The bad news is, I didn't do my research on these pre-1980 Fisher stoves well enough. The damned flue opening in the top of the Grandpa Bear stove is 7 5/8". 8" black single wall pipe does NOT fit in it, and crimping it only made a funnel that will, no way, no how, be safe enough to seal right. After messing around with crimpers all danged morning long, and basically making a mess of my (former) good stove pipe, I found a guy on ebay who makes a stainless adapter to go from 7 5/8" to 8".
I don't think my welded seam 8" stove pipe will be reusable, as once I cut the crimp off, it'll be too short. They come in 4' sections, and I mangled both of them pretty good trying to pound the damned assembly down into the stove from above with a 12' ladder......yep, I'm an idiot some days.
So, an expensive mess to clean up. Ordering new everything, and I'll report back with pictures of either a beautifully painted all new Fisher stove, or perhaps a video of a Grandpa Bear stove getting launched and blown apart with a couple of barrels of gunpowder....depending on whether or not my mood improves by tomorrow.
The outlet pipe size is due to early stoves using 6 and 8 inch OD, so the wall thickness makes it smaller by the wall thickness measurement inside. Later stoves have outlet pipe made to fit stove pipe with 6 and 8 inch ID.
Normally crimpers are used on the easier to crimp seamed pipe. As you go around a few times with hand crimpers, you pry outward to prevent it from becoming funnel shaped. This had to be done on all early makes of stoves.
If you screw up the pipe, I put the length of pipe over a 2 x 6 long enough to span saw horses or any object that the pipe can hang from the board sitting on edge. Then pound it out flat again all the way around using the board edge as an anvil.
Dura-Vent also makes a stove adapter that fits inside the smaller outlet perfectly and allows the male end of normal stove pipe to work very well.
A rear or side vented stove fits the side of a Tee by slipping the Tee over the pipe and capping the bottom leg for any condensate to drip into and provides a good clean-out.
Looking at that heavy baffle reminds me why I use 5/16. Papa Bears are the worst. They are 30 inches deep, so you run out of leverage trying to lift into place. I set one brick on one side and cut a piece of firewood long enough to wedge across to hold it in place. Set the baffle on it and tie a thin rope around it to lift into place through the vent opening. Once the other brick is in place, let it down on the bricks, then push it back until it drops on the rear brick retainers.
Normally crimpers are used on the easier to crimp seamed pipe. As you go around a few times with hand crimpers, you pry outward to prevent it from becoming funnel shaped. This had to be done on all early makes of stoves.
If you screw up the pipe, I put the length of pipe over a 2 x 6 long enough to span saw horses or any object that the pipe can hang from the board sitting on edge. Then pound it out flat again all the way around using the board edge as an anvil.
Dura-Vent also makes a stove adapter that fits inside the smaller outlet perfectly and allows the male end of normal stove pipe to work very well.
A rear or side vented stove fits the side of a Tee by slipping the Tee over the pipe and capping the bottom leg for any condensate to drip into and provides a good clean-out.
Looking at that heavy baffle reminds me why I use 5/16. Papa Bears are the worst. They are 30 inches deep, so you run out of leverage trying to lift into place. I set one brick on one side and cut a piece of firewood long enough to wedge across to hold it in place. Set the baffle on it and tie a thin rope around it to lift into place through the vent opening. Once the other brick is in place, let it down on the bricks, then push it back until it drops on the rear brick retainers.
I modified my hand crimper to match the factory crimp too. My crimper had a little less crimps to the inch, so it never matched up with the finer factory die. I replaced the spacers between the blades with thinner washers to get the exact crimp to match the original pattern. That makes a difference too. The welded seam pipe is not the minimum 24 ga. as cheap pipe and is much tougher as you found out.
My adjusted crimp to match factory die.
My adjusted crimp to match factory die.Nobody carries anything in stock around here, so I ordered the adapter from ebay guy who has been making and selling them for a long time. It specifically states that it's 7 5/8" adapter for the older Fisher stoves. Only issue is the stainless steel, so I will have to try and paint it with stove pipe paint to make it black so it doesn't stick out. A week until it gets here, so I'm without heat until then......
I looked for a local Dura-vent supplier without any luck. That would have been preferred, but none of the descriptions on their web page states that any of the adapters fit the smaller size. I didn't know what to buy, and didn't want to take a chance that it wouldn't fit......
They all say 8" I.D. that won't work......
They all say 8" I.D. that won't work......
It’s called a DuraBlack double skirted stovetop adapter #1872. It has an outer pipe that goes over, and an inner 7 5/8 to fit inside. The 6 inch is common and stocked at Home Depot, but all pipe and chimney are seasonal items. They are the cheapest for Dura-Vent items too.
There is a good dimension drawing here to show inner crimped pipe that fits into stove collar;
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Can't beat the stainless you have ordered.
There is a good dimension drawing here to show inner crimped pipe that fits into stove collar;
8'' DuraBlack Double-Skirted Stovetop Adapter - 8DBK-ADDB
8" DuraBlack DS Stovetop Adapter- Find 8 inch single wall DuraBlack adapters here along with expert advice and installation information - NorthlineExpress.com
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Amazon product ASIN B00186Y2DG
Can't beat the stainless you have ordered.
I gave it another go today, with a fresh head and no anger. I decided that I didn't want to wait a week and a half for heat, as it's pretty cold here still, with overnight temps below freezing.
I hammered out my stove pipe back to shape on my anvil horn, as you suggested, and re-crimped it, this time paying attention to not letting it cone in. By pulling out as I went around with the crimper 3 times, I was able to finally get a decent result. Because of the crimping, it didn't seal well inside the stove opening, but it fit in well.
I was able to find an adjustable stove pipe fitting at Menards that allowed me to wrap around the outside of the connection. The main stove pipe is still seated inside the stove opening, but this fitting shown wraps around the outside, helps seal it tight for air and smoke gaps, and also adds a LOT of stability to the connection.
Here's a picture of the finished stove in the midst of it's first burn. It offgassed quite a bit, so I opened up the shop overhead door and all the windows to let it air out while it fired.
The paint went from the satin finish when applied to a nice, even flat black as it cured. I'm pretty happy with it.
This stove, with the baffle, throws off a noticeable amount of extra heat over the grandma bear stove. It should do nicely.
Thanks for all the help.
I hammered out my stove pipe back to shape on my anvil horn, as you suggested, and re-crimped it, this time paying attention to not letting it cone in. By pulling out as I went around with the crimper 3 times, I was able to finally get a decent result. Because of the crimping, it didn't seal well inside the stove opening, but it fit in well.
I was able to find an adjustable stove pipe fitting at Menards that allowed me to wrap around the outside of the connection. The main stove pipe is still seated inside the stove opening, but this fitting shown wraps around the outside, helps seal it tight for air and smoke gaps, and also adds a LOT of stability to the connection.
Here's a picture of the finished stove in the midst of it's first burn. It offgassed quite a bit, so I opened up the shop overhead door and all the windows to let it air out while it fired.
The paint went from the satin finish when applied to a nice, even flat black as it cured. I'm pretty happy with it.
This stove, with the baffle, throws off a noticeable amount of extra heat over the grandma bear stove. It should do nicely.
Thanks for all the help.
Your a fast worker . Great job . I’m sure it will meet your expectations
Thanks, Frankdozer. I work fast when I want to get a project finished, and this one took a little longer than expected, but I'm very happy with the results.
I think I will miss being able to occasionally take a break in the shop, and watch the fire through the glass doors of the Grandma Bear stove, but the extra heat is the necessity.
Were the Grandpa Bears made with glass doors?
I think I will miss being able to occasionally take a break in the shop, and watch the fire through the glass doors of the Grandma Bear stove, but the extra heat is the necessity.
Were the Grandpa Bears made with glass doors?
I didn't put the bear feet under the stove, as it meant I would have had to cut a pipe up above to shorten my stack. It just barely squeezed back in alignment, and all my room of travel at the top, with the connector that threads into the triple wall pipe, was gone with this new arrangement. I barely got it back together, having to angle it under, and shove the stove back into it's correct spot with a pallet jack while keeping the pipe connection aligned. I'll save the feet for the future.
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