Help me in heating my bedroom and bathroom

[Alessandro]

This is the situation. I have a 90 square meters flat heated with a pellet stove. In a storage room I have like 20 degrees and in the bedroom about 17. The bathroom is very cold.. It's like, stove room, then a small bedroom (with stove canalization). Those two are very warm and comfy. Then there is the bedroom and the bathroom at the other end of the flat. From the stove room there is a living room, a small kitchen space and a storage room (all warm). I think it may be a good idea to transmit some heat from the storage room to the bathroom. The two rooms are separated by a two-meter wall, with a 120 mm hole. To improve the exchange of air, I installed a computer fan. It helps a little bit, but I think it can be better. I am also not sure where to install it... hot to cold or cold to hot? Also, maybe I should invest in a better fan, or maybe eliminate it and installa another fan somewhere else?
Sorry for the metric measures, but I live in Europe.

 

[Bioburner]

Welcome to the site.
No problem with metric conversions but we might be a bit slower I have a Ecoteck stove from Italy as well as a couple fine match pistols.
120mm is not a very large hole and you did not state if it is high or low to help heat or move cold. High would help move warm hopefully to cool areas.

 

[Alessandro]

The hole is at man height in the warm room and a little bit under the ceiling in the bedroom. I don't have very high ceilings, they are about 260 centimeters. Thanks

 

[bcarton]

You can learn a lot about your existing airflow by taping pieces of tissue (toilet paper) to the ceiling. From there, it's much easier to figure out where to put fans that enhance the natural convection that's already happening. That way, you're not fighting against the airflow that your home "wants" to create.

Personally, I follow the "move the cold air towards the stove room" theory, using two very small fans placed on the floor. It took a lot of experimenting, watching the toilet paper, and monitoring temps in each room every time I put a fan in a new loction. Also, I found that it usually took at least 90 minutes to see dependable results when moving the fans. It seems like 3 or 4 hours is more dependable. But I did find that a small change in fan placement, say 1 or 2 meters, could sometimes make a significant difference.

In your case, I would first try putting a small fan on the floor in the bedroom, and blowing cold air out the door.

Edit: I also found that I just could not get our bedroom quite warm enough. We have electric baseboard heat throughout the house. I run the heat in that bedroom, on a programmable thermostat. Although electric heat is very expensive, running it just enough to warm the room by a few degrees only when it's occupied is really not too costly.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I agree. Hot air moves much more easily than cool air. Displacing the cool air toward the room(s) with heated air will cause the heated air to move toward the cooler rooms.

 

[chken]

This is the situation. I have a 90 square meters flat heated with a pellet stove. In a storage room I have like 20 degrees and in the bedroom about 17. The bathroom is very cold.. It's like, stove room, then a small bedroom (with stove canalization). Those two are very warm and comfy. Then there is the bedroom and the bathroom at the other end of the flat. From the stove room there is a living room, a small kitchen space and a storage room (all warm). I think it may be a good idea to transmit some heat from the storage room to the bathroom. The two rooms are separated by a two-meter wall, with a 120 mm hole. To improve the exchange of air, I installed a computer fan. It helps a little bit, but I think it can be better. I am also not sure where to install it... hot to cold or cold to hot? Also, maybe I should invest in a better fan, or maybe eliminate it and installa another fan somewhere else?
Sorry for the metric measures, but I live in Europe.

Here's an Italian pellet stove forum:
http://stufapellet.forumcommunity.net/?f=775608

They say cool bedrooms help you sleep as well as lose weight. If you're cold, how about an electric blanket? In the bathroom, how about a heated toilet seat and an electric spot heater?

As for trying the fans, having two openings with fans going in opposite directions can help create an airflow that will equalize the temps between rooms.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Just a tad under 1000sqft (968.xxx)

Cold air falls, warm air rises.

Move the cold air across the floor and to the stove.
The warm air will move to the area where the cooler air is coming from and sink as it cools.

Moving warm air into cold is nearly impossible without complete duct work, not the other way around though

You must create in effect, "A thermo siphon"

A small fan about 10 inches or so near the floor in the cold area pushing the air at the floor towards the hot room.

 

[SidecarFlip]

If you're cold, how about an electric blanket?

I'm all about that, have one of those that shut themselves off after a couple hours. Second on the list or warmth providing accessories is a warm spouse.

 

[Alessandro]

Thank you for your replies. I do have an electric blanket, but I almost don't use it because I'm scared by the electricity costs. However, I guess a programmable outlet may help me in saving, however I still would prefer improving the situation using the stove as I think I'm not using it at 100%.
Here you have a simple diagram of my house(broken image removed)

The dotted lines are doors. I of course let them open. I also have a question: what do you exactly mean by "installing a fan on the floor"? Or "near the floor". Any picture?

 

[Alessandro]

Here's an Italian pellet stove forum:
http://stufapellet.forumcommunity.net/?f=775608

They say cool bedrooms help you sleep as well as lose weight. If you're cold, how about an electric blanket? In the bathroom, how about a heated toilet seat and an electric spot heater?

As for trying the fans, having two openings with fans going in opposite directions can help create an airflow that will equalize the temps between rooms.

I know that forum. I'd like to get to 18-19 degrees in the bedroom. In the bathroom is too cold. I think I can easily gain a couple of degrees optimizing the stove's behavior. Where would you install the fans?

 

[bogieb]

Thank you for your replies. I do have an electric blanket, but I almost don't use it because I'm scared by the electricity costs. However, I guess a programmable outlet may help me in saving, however I still would prefer improving the situation using the stove as I think I'm not using it at 100%.
Here you have a simple diagram of my house

The dotted lines are doors. I of course let them open. I also have a question: what do you exactly mean by "installing a fan on the floor"? Or "near the floor". Any picture?

Just get a regular room fan (not a tower fan), or register fan, and set it on the floor. I used to have a register booster fan under my dresser facing out the door. Once I got the flow established, I was able to turn that fan off and just use the upper fan to help push warm air down the hall to the bedrooms.

 

[maple1]

What is 'canalization'?

Looking at that diagram, if it is possible, I would try a fan sitting on the floor, in the storage room, blowing toward the kitchen - combined with some sort of opening between the storage room, and bathroom. Or, a fan at floor level blowing from the bathroom into the storage room. That should set up a counter clockwise circular flow that should raise temps in the bathroom/bedroom areas - keeping doors open a bit. But also, a small electric space heater in the bathroom should also help.

 

[Alessandro]

Ok, I'm back. A canalization is... the stove engine is split 50/50. 50% of the power goes into the stove room air, another 50% goes into a pipe that, in my case, goes to the daughter's room. I hope I'm clear.
Now, I figured out what the problem is. The problem is that air in my house doesn't move. Almost at all. Have a look at the diagram. From the stove room, the hot air goes easily "eastward" to the kitchen and the storage room, but it stays stuck there, because I have no opening from the storage room to the bathroom or bedroom, except the not big one in the bedroom. Walls are like 2 meters tick there, so an opening is not an option. Maybe I should invest in a bigger fan or a different product for that hole to create more of an air flow? I have an 80mm computer fan mounted in the storage room. It makes a little difference. I can potentially install a 120mm fan, would it make a true difference or is it just a waste of money?
Also, as the air in my house doesn't flow, the ceilings are very hot, and at useful height I think I lose three to five degrees. I think a ceiling fan would be a good thing to "mix" hot and cold air and have a higher temperature at man's height. The problem is that I hate "regular" ceiling fans (i mean like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/The_Black_Beauty.jpg), they make my head hurt and anyway I can't mount one because I have a furniture my cat loves to sleep on (I assume since it's like 24°C up there) and I fear he'll kill himself trying to catch the fan as he is very playful.
Any idea? I've had a good winter so far, but I think it can be better and this winter has been warm anyway.

 

[RKS130]

I would try getting several fans like these: http://www.amazon.com/Suncourt-FANN...id=1423918160&sr=8-3&keywords=corner+door+fan

I would put one at the lower corner of your daughter's room, blowing in to the stove room.... another at the lower corner of the bedroom and bathroom blowing towards the stove room as well. I would also add an upper corner fan in the bathroom doorway blowing IN to the bathroom. Hopefully this will give you the air flow you want/need.

My stove is in an alcove at the bottom of the stairs. At the top of the stairs I have a cieling fan, blowing down. If you sit on the stairs you can fel the cold air passing you at floor level heading to the stove. But if you raise your hand in the air you can feel the warm air heading upstairs.

Give it a try and play with fan position/direction and you will solve your problem in time.

 

[Alessandro]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I have quite the same thing a my place, if I am sit down or if I stand up I can feel the temperature difference...

 

[Alessandro]

I would try getting several fans like these: http://www.amazon.com/Suncourt-FANN-WH-Doorway-Booster-RR100/dp/B0007N5LHM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423918160&sr=8-3&keywords=corner door fan

I would put one at the lower corner of your daughter's room, blowing in to the stove room.... another at the lower corner of the bedroom and bathroom blowing towards the stove room as well. I would also add an upper corner fan in the bathroom doorway blowing IN to the bathroom. Hopefully this will give you the air flow you want/need.

My stove is in an alcove at the bottom of the stairs. At the top of the stairs I have a cieling fan, blowing down. If you sit on the stairs you can fel the cold air passing you at floor level heading to the stove. But if you raise your hand in the air you can feel the warm air heading upstairs.

Give it a try and play with fan position/direction and you will solve your problem in time.

I can't find those fans anywhere in Europe. Any other suggestion?

 

[bcarton]

A couple of fans such as these would help. put them on the floor and blow cold air toward the stove room, on low speed. These are what I use.

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HT-..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424034891&sr=8-1&keywords=fan

My stove is not in an optimal location. I keep the stove room at about 80 degrees F, the rest of the first floor stays at 70-73 degrees, and the upstairs rooms are cooler, about 65-68 depending on sunlight, etc. I use a little bit of electric baseboard heat to supplement the upstairs.

 

[Alessandro]

Thank you. What about pumping a bit of hot air through the hole from the storage room to the bedroom? That's a 2 meter thick wall. I was thinking about something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294 The hole is 125 mm (yes I know this fan is 100mm but you get the point). Would it be just a waste of money? Also, I have to say that I run the stove at a little bit high power to raise the temperature, now I let it run most of the day at minimum power and I have a good temperature throughout the whole house (although those two rooms are a bit colder, but not as much as before. One problem with the duct fan would be that the hole is at an height of about 2.30 meters, I feel once again that all the heat will go to the ceiling. I'm still waiting for a good advice to push hot air towards the floor without a ceiling fan. I know it's quite an odd request, but maybe someone has a good reply

 

[Alessandro]

A couple of fans such as these would help. put them on the floor and blow cold air toward the stove room, on low speed. These are what I use.

http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HT-..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424034891&sr=8-1&keywords=fan

My stove is not in an optimal location. I keep the stove room at about 80 degrees F, the rest of the first floor stays at 70-73 degrees, and the upstairs rooms are cooler, about 65-68 depending on sunlight, etc. I use a little bit of electric baseboard heat to supplement the upstairs.

View attachment 153694

Thank you for the diagram. Do you have any result in the dining room thanks to the fan?

 

[Alessandro]

And last question... your honeywell fan... maybe I could put it on a tall piece of furniture pointing it toward the ceiling, so that the cold air will be forced up and the hot one forced down as they will be forced to mix up themselves?

 

[bcarton]

Yes, the dining room and living room are about 70 degrees F. The kitchen is usually 72-73. I've had very good results just blowing the cool air straight across the floor to the stove room. I think blowing the cold air upward would likely block the flow of the warm air across the ceilings, so no I have not tried that. The heat just pours out of the stove room throughout the rest of the first floor, and does quite well upstairs too. I have a second fan in approximately the same location upstairs, blowing cool air down the hallway toward the stairs. On the diagram, the stairs are represented by the long thin blue arrow that points up.

 

[Alessandro]

Yes, the dining room and living room are about 70 degrees F. The kitchen is usually 72-73. I've had very good results just blowing the cool air straight across the floor to the stove room. I think blowing the cold air upward would likely block the flow of the warm air across the ceilings, so no I have not tried that. The heat just pours out of the stove room throughout the rest of the first floor, and does quite well upstairs too. I have a second fan in approximately the same location upstairs, blowing cool air down the hallway toward the stairs. On the diagram, the stairs are represented by the long thin blue arrow that points up.

Thank you! Yes, I understood that the blue arrow would mean stairs... the fact I ask about the hot ceiling it's because I have an one-store flat, not a two-store home like most of you seem to have. Two-store places are uncommon in Europe (very few have the money to buy one)