Help Me Pick a Stove

[Bluduck]

First off I would like to say thank you for this great site. I have found it to be very useful lately in my quest for a new stove. I am just getting ready to install a new wood stove and thought I would ask everyones opinion in the way I should proceed.

I just bought a new house, 2400 square feet, 1400 upstairs 1000 downstairs in a finished daylight basement. The stairs are centrally located in the house. The house currently does not have a chimney, or fireplace of any kind. I am looking to install one and have a couple of quotes coming in around $2400. I am not sure how well the house is insulated, it was built in 1995 and has vaulted ceilings and 6, yes 6, sliding glass doors on the deck side of the house. 4 upstairs, 2 downstairs. They all face south. My electric bill for August and Sept was around $225 and I kept it warm during the day when we are at work. I am guessing not that well insulated especially with all the glass. I am thinking that I will put the stove in the basement against the south wall which is the central location, right between the two sliding glass doors, this was the recommendation of the man that came and quoted the install. The chimney will be outside and will be fairly tall. I am guessing at 25 feet plus. I have always owned steel stoves in the past. I have burned wood literally my entire life as a primary heat source and the last 13 years as my only heat source, so you can imagine that I am a freaking out not having one. I was not going to install one until next year but the prospect of no wood heat this winter has me scrambling to get it done. I have been looking at some of the cast iron stoves, specifically the Jotul's and the Quadra-fires as well as one by Avalon. I really like the look but am nervous about them vs steel. Reading on here has calmed that a little but I also have no experiance with the new stoves. I have seen some top loader Iron stoves that were really cool. My last stove for 14 years was a Orly knockoff. It heated us out, but our house was only 1000 sq feet. Any ideas on the size of stove I might need and whether I should stick to a steel stove or switch to a iron one. As I have said, thanks for all your help.

Kenny

 

[begreen]

Welcome Kenny. Heating from the basement is a compromise at best. The stove is an area heater. That said, no problem with going with steel and yet having a cast iron look. Several nice stove are now made with steel hearts and a cast iron jacket. You are going to want about a 3 cu ft. stove. Take a look at the Jotul F55, Enviro Boston, and the Pacific Energy T6. All are steel at heart and good performers.

 

[webby3650]

You might also want to look into Blaze King's new stove. It's near 3 cubic feet, cast iron jacketed steel stove. The Lopi Cape Cod Hybrid is another option, 3 cubic feet, cast iron.
You mentioned an Avalon iron stove, I assume it's the Arbor? That stove is the same as the Lopi Leyden, do a quick search on here and you will change your mind very quickly!
In fact, I would steer clear of top loaders with the exception of the Jotul Rangeley and the Quadra Fire Isle Royale. They are pretty similar, and both still make use of a baffle with burn tubes. The Quad having the upper hand in my opinion.

 

[Grisu]

Hi Kenny, welcome to the forum!

Would you mind telling us where you live? It almost sounds like you have been heating already the last two months which sounds like you are living pretty high up north (or all the way south). Given the size of your house BG is right: a stove with about a 3 cu ft firebox should be appropriate. Especially at night you may need that additional "firepower" to keep the house heated with all those glass doors. If you are concerned that may be too much during the not so cold days you could take a look at catalytic stoves (e. g. Woodstock Progress, BlazeKing Princess/Chinook 30/Sirocco 30, or Buck 80). They allow a clean burn and a more even heat output. You will get also longer burn times (12+ hours) with a catalytic stove.

There is nothing arguing against cast iron other than maybe price. Cast iron stoves take a little bit longer to warm up but then provide a more even heat than pure steel stoves. Soapstone stoves (e. g. Woodstock, Hearthstone) are even better in that regard although they usually are among the most expensive options.

If you want to post a floor plan we could give you some recommendations what places would be optimal for your stove. The more direct path to the stairwell the better if you want to get the warm air to rise to the upper floor. However, please don't forget that you will need dry, seasoned wood for any modern EPA-approved stove. That means the wood should measure less than 20 % moisture content on a freshly split surface. Although many firewood dealers say their wood is seasoned in our experience here it rarely is. Hence, while looking for stoves I would also recommend to search for seasoned firewood if you have not already.

 

[Bluduck]

Thanks for the replies. I live in idaho, I Havnt been heating yet but the creeping fall has me very nervous. I ussually burn wood I cut myself. Red fir and lodge pole. However this season will likely be mostly hardwood. My best friend owns a tree company so unlimited supply. I will see if I can draw a floor plan to post up. Thanks for the replies. I am not familiar with anything other than the isle royale. I really like that one.

 

[PapaDave]

Bluduck, Welcome to the Hearth.
Good suggestions for a stove have been made.
I'll just add to not downplay the importance of dry wood. The new stoves darn near require DRY wood.
This means the moisture content in a freshly split piece of about 20% or less. Since you've been a burner for a minute or two, you may already know this, but we get lots of folks here who've burned long term that have had problems when moving to a new stove, yet still using old habits.
It's very important to your sanity to heed this. Burning water has been shown to be very difficult, and you lose approximately 30% (depending on MC) or so of the heating value to burning off the moisture.
Forgot to mention, we like pics. When you get your stove, we'd love to see the install.

ETA: Since you cut your own, how much is processed right now?
Consider joining our "Firewood Hoarders Club" (see my sig). Very informal.

 

[Bluduck]

Bluduck, Welcome to the Hearth.
Good suggestions for a stove have been made.
I'll just add to not downplay the importance of dry wood. The new stoves darn near require DRY wood.
This means the moisture content in a freshly split piece of about 20% or less. Since you've been a burner for a minute or two, you may already know this, but we get lots of folks here who've burned long term that have had problems when moving to a new stove, yet still using old habits.
It's very important to your sanity to heed this. Burning water has been shown to be very difficult, and you lose approximately 30% (depending on MC) or so of the heating value to burning off the moisture.
Forgot to mention, we like pics. When you get your stove, we'd love to see the install.

ETA: Since you cut your own, how much is processed right now?
Consider joining our "Firewood Hoarders Club" (see my sig). Very informal.

Dave,

I dont have anything processed, since the new house doesnt have a stove and I spent the entire summer purchasing and getting this place whipped into shape (HUD Home 203k financing) I didn't bring the 3 cords I had left over from last winter over from the old house and didn't get to the hills even once. Like I said my friend has a very large tree business and his wood yard has 1000's of cords sitting in it at any given time, problem is its in the round hardwood. My choice on the type. I'm a little nervous about the moisture content as I have always burned non EPA stoves that would burn anything I push through them. Im assuming that with the EPA stoves then I would need to keep my wood in a shed or indoors? I have never kept my wood out of the weather, just moved in a weeks worth at a time into the garage, but when its snowy I always relied on the stove finishing the drying process when it was damp from the elements. I burned 24-7 so it was fairly easy to keep it roaring and I just cleaned the chimney twice a month. Maybe I should just buy a older steel stove that might not be so finicky? I have talked to the insurance and they told me that was fine as long as I built my hearth to worst case scenario's which I have room to do. Thats what I did in my old house. I really like the looks of the new stoves though and I would like to go that way, but now I am a little worried that they might not work as well for me.

Kenny

 

[Grisu]

Without having dry wood your burns will be less than satisfactory and also be a safety issue as you will get a lot of creosote. I would split several cords ASAP preferably ash (no oak that needs 2 to 3 years) as that dries relatively quickly. Stack it in single rows perpendicular to the prevailing wind direction and with lots of sun. Raise the stacks with some lumber or pallets underneath. I prefer top covering it but opinions differ on that. That wood may be ready next winter.

For this winter you can try the following:
- Get pressed logs like Ecobricks or Bio-bricks and mix them with some wet wood that you just split.
- Find pallets (usually free from many stores), cut them up and burn them. It's a PITA, however.
- Trade about 1.5 cords of your green wood for 1 cord of seasoned wood with someone who may have plenty of dry wood around; maybe someone from this forum.

In any case, clean your chimney regularly.

 

[begreen]

If your buddy has a lot of ash in his stash that would be the best choice for this winter.

 

[rideau]

I'd definitely go with a newer EPA stove. You are going to get much better burns, more heat, use less wood. Much less work for you in the long run, which can matter as you age. Much better for the environment, as you area both burning cleaner and using much less wood. The fires in the new EPA stoves with their large glass windows are also beautiful to watch, to sit in front of.

The first year may be a bit of a pain, because of your lack of dry wood, but if you split now for next year, after this year everything will be easy.

 

[PapaDave]

Actually, like has been said, the need for dry wood will be more beneficial once you get things setup.
"Finicky" is in the eye of the beholder. The old stove (trust me on this, as I have one) might burn pretty much anything, but it's wasting wood. It's also wasting all your hard work, when you have to burn much more wood for the same result as a newer stove.
I (as do many others here) put all my wood into a field for at least 2 years to dry, then bring it to the shed where it stays nice and dry and ice/snow free for the winter.
New stove will actually make your life easier in the long run, although it'll be a little tough the first year or so.
Looking back at all this and knowing what I do now, I'd already have had a new stove and dry wood 7 years ago.

 

[Ed Williams]

I like Lopi and Avalon cast iron. pretty even heat and no catalyst. We've worked with and installed several of the Lopi Leydens, and their owners love them. They may be top or front loaded. Nice fit and finish, easily serviced, nice color choices, great factory/dealer support.

 

[begreen]

There are a lot of well liked stoves out there. Based on reports here though the Leyden is not one of them.

 

[Grisu]

Not to mention that the Leyden only is a medium sized stove while the OP will probably need a large one.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Dave,

I dont have anything processed, since the new house doesnt have a stove and I spent the entire summer purchasing and getting this place whipped into shape (HUD Home 203k financing) I didn't bring the 3 cords I had left over from last winter over from the old house and didn't get to the hills even once. Like I said my friend has a very large tree business and his wood yard has 1000's of cords sitting in it at any given time, problem is its in the round hardwood. My choice on the type. I'm a little nervous about the moisture content as I have always burned non EPA stoves that would burn anything I push through them. Im assuming that with the EPA stoves then I would need to keep my wood in a shed or indoors? I have never kept my wood out of the weather, just moved in a weeks worth at a time into the garage, but when its snowy I always relied on the stove finishing the drying process when it was damp from the elements. I burned 24-7 so it was fairly easy to keep it roaring and I just cleaned the chimney twice a month. Maybe I should just buy a older steel stove that might not be so finicky? I have talked to the insurance and they told me that was fine as long as I built my hearth to worst case scenario's which I have room to do. Thats what I did in my old house. I really like the looks of the new stoves though and I would like to go that way, but now I am a little worried that they might not work as well for me.

Kenny

Welcome to the forum Kenny and congratulations on the new home.

While I was reading your post, which I quoted above, I still get the feeling that you do not yet realize the importance of dry wood nor how to properly dry the wood. The reason for that feeling is that you have a friend with a tree service and can get all you need. But, we never count any drying time until that wood has been split and stacked, OUTSIDE.

For wood to dry, it needs air circulation for the best drying conditions and in your area, you no doubt get plenty of wind which is ideal. Still, to take advantage of that wind, the wood must be outdoors. If you can also get some sun on that wood it too will be nice but the wind will dry it faster. I would not cover it.....until the snow flies. We normally leave our wood uncovered the first year and then cover only the top of the pile just before the snow begins to pile up; usually early December. This means that although you can get this wood, you don't have time to dry it this year. That could spell problems that you do not want. You may get by but it won't be ideal. These new stoves are extremely efficient and you can be very happy with them but only if you put good fuel in them.

And your comment about assuming you have to keep the wood indoors.... Okay if it has first dried outdoors. NEVER FINISH THE DRYING PROCESS WITH THE STOVE!! As for the "damp elements" outdoors, just stack the wood off the ground and when you cover, top cover only. Please look also in the Wood Shed on hearth.com for more information.

On chimney cleaning, the fact that you cleaned the chimney twice per month says your wood was very poor. To compare, we have not cleaned our chimney in 4 years now. However, all the wood we burn is at least 3 years in the stack so it is dry.

On the hearth, the stove will specify what is required for the heart and surrounding areas.