Help me zero in on some tractor options

[rt014]

I have 72 wooded acres on hilly (not rolling) terrain with logging roads and smaller trails connecting most of it. I harvest at least 20 full cords a year. I currently have a Yamaha Rhino and wagon which have been my work horse to now, but think I need to 'step it up'. I'm focused on a tractor with the lowest center of gravity I can find, that is also 'nimble' in the woods and has various attachments to do the following:

a) Skid trees
b) move cut wood
c) move boulders
d) road maintenance and drain outs
e) food plot maintenance
f) minor backhoe digger around the pond
g) snow removal

I think a tractor would give me the most flexibility. Could you narrow a few brands and models to narrow my search?

Thanks

 

[KenLockett]

I have 72 wooded acres on hilly (not rolling) terrain with logging roads and smaller trails connecting most of it. I harvest at least 20 full cords a year. I currently have a Yamaha Rhino and wagon which have been my work horse to now, but think I need to 'step it up'. I'm focused on a tractor with the lowest center of gravity I can find, that is also 'nimble' in the woods and has various attachments to do the following:

a) Skid trees
b) move cut wood
c) move boulders
d) road maintenance and drain outs
e) food plot maintenance
f) minor backhoe digger around the pond
g) snow removal

I think a tractor would give me the most flexibility. Could you narrow a few brands and models to narrow my search?

Thanks

I have the exact same need having used a 4x4 550 quad up to this point on my hilly approximately 20 acres plus 58 acre access in rear. Will be interested in the responses.

 

[peakbagger]

(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-Unimog-SEE-tractor-w-2005-rebuild-413-miles-FLU-419-excellent-shape-/151708057292?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2352813ecc&item=151708057292)

 

[TreePointer]

One tractor to do all that is going to be a compromise. Everything except skidding in hilly wooded areas can be done with a large SCUT or smaller CUT; however, for most of those tasks, bigger is better. Skidding in hills is the domain of dedicated log skidders; that's why they're so low to the ground. With a tractor, you can use something like a Farmi winch (plus a snatch block or two) to get timber to logging roads and then skid it behind, or process it near the road and load it onto some type of trailer/truck bed.

I often advise folks to work backwards. Figure out what implements you want to run and what size they need to be, and that will tell you what tractor fits you best. For instance, if you need to run a 72" brush cutter or 72" rear PTO snow blower, you need a tractor with enough rear PTO horsepower to run them and enough counterweight in the tractor & front end to keep things safe.

 

[rt014]

With a tractor, you can use something like a Farmi winch (plus a snatch block or two) to get timber to logging roads and then skid it behind, or process it near the road and load it onto some type of trailer/truck bed.

Most of the time we do winch, then cut near the road and truck out the rounds on a trailer. The true 'skidding' would occur when there is a good layer of snow/ice and the ground is frozen....I try to spare my roads Also, it's easier to do all the cutting in a header when there is a lot of snow on the ground.

 

[Ashful]

I often advise folks to work backwards. Figure out what implements you want to run and what size they need to be, and that will tell you what tractor fits you best. For instance, if you need to run a 72" brush cutter or 72" rear PTO snow blower, you need a tractor with enough rear PTO horsepower to run them and enough counterweight in the tractor & front end to keep things safe.

This.

 

[DodgyNomad]

What's your budget, both max and ideal? If money is no object, then your options go up exponentially.

 

[rt014]

What's your budget, both max and ideal? If money is no object, then your options go up exponentially.

I was guessing somewhere in the $20-30k range...but I'm flexible upward....but on the other hand I can't pursue things with a money's no object attitude.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

That's a lotta land, and a decent task list. I wouldn't look at anything smaller than the mid size Kubota L series or Massey Ferguson 1700E series. I'd even look at a small Kubota M series or one of the larger Massey Ferguson 1700 series.

As said, the size of your desired attachments will help you determine how much HP you will, and that will in turn will help narrow down your choices. A backhoe adds quite a bit of cost if its really necessary.

 

[rt014]

That's a lotta land, and a decent task list. I wouldn't look at anything smaller than the mid size Kubota L series or Massey Ferguson 1700E series. I'd even look at a small Kubota M series or one of the larger Massey Ferguson 1700 series.

As said, the size of your desired attachments will help you determine how much HP you will, and that will in turn will help narrow down your choices. A backhoe adds quite a bit of cost if its really necessary.

Thanks...exactly what I was looking for...at least some point in the general direction of brands/lines/models. As far as the back hoe, it is probably the lowest priority attachment for me, but would be nice to have.

 

[Ashful]

I was guessing somewhere in the $20-30k range...but I'm flexible upward....but on the other hand I can't pursue things with a money's no object attitude.

Given the HP class you'll be shopping for that task list, and backhoe on the wish list, you'll be shopping used.

 

[TreePointer]

Hills and/or snow removal means 4WD is a must.

Confirm the max load ratings on the tractor's FEL. There is more than one max load rating per FEL--at the pivot, and a distances from the pivot. It seems counterintuitive, but tractors typically can lift much less than a much smaller forklift or skidsteer.

Minimum CAT1 3-point hitch. Confirm max load rating.

Shoot for a minimum 35 hp at the rear PTO. (Again, the implements you need to run will tell you how much PTO hp you need.)

If any of the implements run off the tractor hydraulics (instead of, say, a PTO pump), confirm the hydraulic flow rate (gpm). Some implements have a minimum gpm rating.

Ag tires (R1) usually work best with ground engaging equipment (plows, etc.). R4 tires can be a nice compromise if you need a less aggressive bite on your lawn. Remember to consider how wide the wheels track for getting around on your trails and in the woods.

 

[Ashful]

I went round and round on choosing tires, as I try to keep my lawn nice, and more than half of my tractor usage is on my lawn. After much reading and talking with folks, I went with turf tires and 2-link tire chains for all four wheels. The turf tires work better than R1's or R4's on turf and pavement, falling short in mud or deep snow (eg. driving on the lawn in snow). For those occasions, I just don my 2-link chains on either front or all fours, which is typically only once or twice each year. Two or three years in, I'm happy with that choice.

 

[EJP1234]

I was guessing somewhere in the $20-30k range...but I'm flexible upward....but on the other hand I can't pursue things with a money's no object attitude.

Just an FYI, I just bought a 30hp kioti, with a brush hog, tiller, landscape rake, and backhoe w/ a hydro thumb and I was a bit over $30k delivered.

The backhoe's are typically $7-8k in that size range, and the thumbs are extra... I went with a hydro thumb, might as well as a mechanical set in place by a bolt would be a PIA...

When shopping, and if a backhoe is a must, look into how easily they attach.. I wrote of kubota because of that... I would have to take the 3pt linkage off each and every time.. probably not a big deal to some, but I come home from the office and want to go rip up a stump here or there when making food plots, but also want to hook up the brush hog or other implement just as much.. it seemed like it would be a major pain in the rear to constantly take that off and on.

 

[semipro]

I have a 32 HP, 4WD, with FEL and hydrostatic transmission. (blade, rake, chipper, hitch, PHD) I use R4s with chains year round.
I've operated quite a few tractors and various other heavy equipment. One thing I've found I really like for hilly terrain and FEL operation is the hydrostatic trans. I now wouldn't have a tractor without it.

 

[TreePointer]

One thing I've found I really like for hilly terrain and FEL operation is the hydrostatic trans. I now wouldn't have a tractor without it.

+1

 

[Ashful]

One thing I've found I really like for hilly terrain and FEL operation is the hydrostatic trans. I now wouldn't have a tractor without it.

+2. All my vehicles are manual gearbox, but all my tractors are hydro. Can't even imagine how I used to plow with a manual gearbox on my old Wheel Horse.

 

[jeffesonm]

I would say you want a Kubota L series, Deere 3x20 series, or the equivalent Kioti/LS/Branson/etc. Not as familiar with the other brands but I would stick with orange or green if for no other reason than resale. In the past three years I've gone through three tractors... bought used and each time I was able to get about what I paid. The first, a JD 4500 was fantastic but a little too big for my dense woods and I wanted to try a hydro drive. Kubota B3030 was the right size, but I just didn't like it as much as the JD. Sold that and bought a JD 4310 which I love. I miss the gear drive sometimes but overall I think the hydro is just more functional. I would also encourage you to get the tires filled if you plan to use it on hills.... really helps with stability. Most important I would say get out there and check out / sit on / drive / use a bunch of different machines and see which one you like the best.

 

[jeffesonm]

Buying used can save you quite a few bucks, and after the initial drive-it-off-the-lot depreciation, these things hold their value really well. I would not hesitate to buy a used machine as long as it was well cared for. When buying machines I look for single owner machines with low hours that just did stuff around their house. Also a lot of dealers offer 0% financing on new machines so consider that option too.

More power can drive bigger implements but how important is a 7' mower vs a 6' mower vs a 5' mower? I always lose traction before straining the motor and that's with R1 tires, wheel weights, 400 lbs on the 3 pt and whatever load I'm carrying. If you are going to be doing more in the woods and on hills and less in the fields, I would be more concerned with a smaller, maneuverable machine than a bigger more powerful one. I also prefer the 5' bucket to the 6' bucket I had before... sure you can carry less dirt/mulch/stone/etc, but I do that far less often than backing up/turning around in a tight space, where the smaller bucket really helps. Are you skidding logs for the mill or to cut up for firewood? I made a little log sled, load up 8-12 foot logs and then drag them all back to wherever they need to go.

 

[EJP1234]

But he wants a backhoe, and the JD 3 series doesn't take one... not too mention the aluminum crank case...

 

[jeffesonm]

I believe the 47, 48, 447, 448, 375 and 485 backhoes can all go on a 3320/3520/3720.

I have less acreage than OP but similar needs for a tractor, and lots of hills. I did not get a backhoe with my machine because they run around $5,000 extra, and I wasn't sure I really needed it. In the past three years there have probably been one or two times I really wish I had one, but otherwise I don't miss it. If I ever have a serious digging project I will rent the appropriate machine... ditch witch for trench or mini excavator for something like a foundation. I figured I could get quite a few rentals before I reached $5,000 and mini excavator especially is better for plain digging. Now my buddy has a backhoe on his Kubota and says he wouldn't want to be without it, so your needs might be different than mine.

The one thing I absolutely love and is almost always attached to my tractor is my 3 point pallet forks. With this latest machine I have a set of quick attach forks for the loader, but unless you need to lift something high, the rear forks on the 3 point are much better. They are way more stable right back by the rear tires than with the load hanging out a few feet past the nose of your machine. I keep all sorts of stuff on pallets... firewood, building materials, equipment, etc and move it around wherever it needs to go.

 

[blades]

Not even so much as what the bucket can lift as what the front axle can really support. Tractors are made for pulling so all their strength is in the back side.
Back hoes are really hard on the 3 point only mount- a good one would be a frame mount that reaches about 1/2 to 2/3 towards the front . So they are going to be model series specific.

 

[rt014]

Are you skidding logs for the mill or to cut up for firewood? I made a little log sled, load up 8-12 foot logs and then drag them all back to wherever they need to go.

Primary use is for skidding firewood out, but at some point I may decide to do some amateur logging on some of my nicer trees and save the cost/cut of a logger doing it. One idea someone else gave me that got me to thinking is a used E series Cat bulldozer that had a big winch on it. Think it would be a breeze keeping my trails open in the winter with something like that. Still not convinced though. I'd be giving up some flexibility and ground speed with it though.

 

[rt014]

I would also encourage you to get the tires filled if you plan to use it on hills.... really helps with stability. .

I think I finally understand what it means to 'fill' the tires...meaning you make them solid right? That makes sense. What do they fill them with? Also does it make sense for my application to have larger front tires? Some tractors seem to have really small tires up front usually.

 

[Ashful]

"filling" the tires refers to usually filling them with a liquid that won't freeze in your clime. Traditional is Calcium Chloride, which is very dense (heavy), and won't freeze. Trouble is, it rots your rims. There are now specialty products on the market that do the same, without being corrosive, but they're not as inexpensive. Others use window washer fluid, or other similar antifreeze alternatives, but they're usually not very dense.

There are charts dictating how much fluid to put in a given tire size, because you do NOT want the tires 'solid', lest you break things. There needs to be a certain balance of air in the tire.