We just bought a 1956 brick ranch in northeast Tennessee. The living room has a hidden fireplace we were told. It's walled in and we were told that the firebox is filled with concrete. We inspected the chimney and found it was cracked and crumbling. So, okay, plan B...we'll restore it, close off the chimney and use a ventless log. The problem is the firebox filled with concrete. Has anyone heard of this before and is it worth doing???? Or, are we biting off more than we can chew. HELP!
Help! My fireplace is filled in with concrete!
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Why would you want to go through the effort to open up what sounds like a bad chimney just to add a gas log system that will spew its fumes into your home? What is the goal here, ambiance? If so, it would be better to put a good video of a fire on the television.
Well, actually, living in northeast Tennessee with it's albeit short winters, we'd like to put in a secondary heat system in the event that storms knock out electricity to the area. We've heard it's happened in our area and that the power was out for a little over a week. That's a long time to be cold.
Backup heat is a good plan, but make it safe and something that doesn't spew CO into the house. A ventless gas logset probably wouldn't give much heat off anyway.
If you want to save the chimney, your best bet would be to have a mason or competent chimney sweep inspect the chimney system. It may not be safe for a fire as is, but it may be able to accommodate a stainless, insulated liner. If so, would a small, free-standing stove in front of the fireplace be ok? It could be gas or wood.
Another alternative is to put in a gas heater elsewhere that vents directly to outside. Or you could entirely remove the chimney system and put a freestanding stove in it's location (or another) with a metal chimney.
If you want to save the chimney, your best bet would be to have a mason or competent chimney sweep inspect the chimney system. It may not be safe for a fire as is, but it may be able to accommodate a stainless, insulated liner. If so, would a small, free-standing stove in front of the fireplace be ok? It could be gas or wood.
Another alternative is to put in a gas heater elsewhere that vents directly to outside. Or you could entirely remove the chimney system and put a freestanding stove in it's location (or another) with a metal chimney.
BeGreen said:
Your biases are showing. A ventless gas fireplace can give off plenty of heat since they are very efficient and safe. They make an excellent backup system.
In 2000, we heated a 3000+ sq ft two story with lots of windows exclusively with a unvented propane fireplace. Total winter heat bill was $400 vs. $3000 the winter before with the propane furnace.
We currently have unvented gas logs for backup at this house.
Ken
Our first year in this old house, we had (have) a freestanding VC Stardance propane stove. 500 gallons propane every 1 1/2 months. THAT was expensive, to say the least. It is vented through the original sandstone block firplace/chimney that was built in the mid-1800s. The fireplace firebox was filled with rock, brick, concrete, etc and bricked in in the front in order to support the 90 degree elbow for the gas B-vent. If we relied on electric heat pump, I suppose that thing would do in a pinch, but it hasn't been fired in over 2 years now.
Here's a picture of our setup. The pipe actually goes in above the firebox. Like I said above, the entire firebox was filled with rubble. Looking down the chimney (it terminates in the attic - there as an upper level addition that completely enclosed the chimney top), it looks like someone just dumped all sorts of crap down there to fill it up. I've been toying around with setting this up to allow a small wood stove to be installed)
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I think Mike has the right idea. Best option might be to have a gas or wood stove vent into the old chimney above the filled fireplace. Often times if you run a new liner system down the chimney you don't even need to repair the old one first.
You can also get a ventfree stove if that's what you really want, although I would search around online and you will find lots more info that you would like about ventfree.
You can also get a ventfree stove if that's what you really want, although I would search around online and you will find lots more info that you would like about ventfree.
curtandjen said:
Well 1st off, I'd get a good generator. We have the "fun" of power outages around here too. A good generator will keep the entire house up and running for you. That way you have heat, light, refrigerator. And most importantly the coffee stays hot
Speaking of power outages, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. And I don't understand how a gas appliance can be truly "ventless". When gas burns, seems there would have to be a wast product, to some degree. A ventless might be ok in a pinch for a short period of time. But I don't know if I would trust it for more than a few hours, let alone an entire heating season.
curtandjen said:Well 1st off, I'd get a good generator. We have the "fun" of power outages around here too. A good generator will keep the entire house up and running for you. That way you have heat, light, refrigerator. And most importantly the coffee stays hot
Speaking of power outages, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. And I don't understand how a gas appliance can be truly "ventless". When gas burns, seems there would have to be a wast product, to some degree. A ventless might be ok in a pinch for a short period of time. But I don't know if I would trust it for more than a few hours, let alone an entire heating season.
Generators take a lot of fuel (for which quality storage is a problem) and generators tend to follow Murphy's Law, they will fail when you need them the most. Unless you spend a lot of money, they are very noisy. We have one of those. I'd rather be cold than listen to it all day long!
Unvented gas logs, etc. produce a small amount of water vapor and carbon dioxide. There is enough air turnover (leakage) in a normal house to vent it without problems. I know, I was skeptical myself initially, but I have not seen any problems. Sure, things can go wrong with any heat source: gas furnace, water heater, wood stove, pellet stove, etc.
Ken
Ken45 said:
Correct, it is my personal bias. I have never been a fan of combustion fumes being exhausted into the living space. Nor have the states Alaska, California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, New York, Utah, and counties in Colorado, though local regulations sometime do permit them in some of these states.
My preference is still a small, vented freestanding stove in front of the fireplace, similar to the pic that Mike posted.
You might want to check the cost of propane from the year 2000 to its price now in 2008. Somehow I doubt you will be heating the same space, for same length of time for $400.00.
Ken45 said:curtandjen said:Well 1st off, I'd get a good generator. We have the "fun" of power outages around here too. A good generator will keep the entire house up and running for you. That way you have heat, light, refrigerator. And most importantly the coffee stays hot
Speaking of power outages, I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. And I don't understand how a gas appliance can be truly "ventless". When gas burns, seems there would have to be a wast product, to some degree. A ventless might be ok in a pinch for a short period of time. But I don't know if I would trust it for more than a few hours, let alone an entire heating season.
Generators take a lot of fuel (for which quality storage is a problem) and generators tend to follow Murphy's Law, they will fail when you need them the most. Unless you spend a lot of money, they are very noisy. We have one of those. I'd rather be cold than listen to it all day long!
Unvented gas logs, etc. produce a small amount of water vapor and carbon dioxide. There is enough air turnover (leakage) in a normal house to vent it without problems. I know, I was skeptical myself initially, but I have not seen any problems. Sure, things can go wrong with any heat source: gas furnace, water heater, wood stove, pellet stove, etc.
Ken
My generator is a +,-25 year old 4000W Coleman. Nothing fancy. It's left over from my construction biz days. I used it to start framing the house 21 years ago, that I now live in, before the utility co. got my temporary power connected. I always be sure to have at least a few gallons of gas in one of my 5 gal. cans left over from summer mowing. If I need more, I can go to the gas station. I keep the generator in my basement so it starts easy, if power fails during cold weather. Yes the fuel tank is empty when in the basement. I'm happy to burn as much gas as I need to, to keep the house powered up. I'm on a well, so it keeps bath facilities usable also
Noisey..... yes, it is. But not too bad with the muffler pointed towards the woods, and closed windows ;-) You're right, quiet generators are pricey. Funny, every time after we have a power failure, I think about spending the $$ to get a nice shiney new QUIET generator. Just can't bring myself to do it though. The old green Colman just won't die :lol:
curtandjen said:
Please just leave that cement filled fireplace full of cement & buy a freestanding englander 50-30cnl from www.overstockstoves.com for 799.oo including shipping.
Or get the summersheat from lowes, same stove ,lower price,different name,different trim.
They come in 3 sizes 1200 sq ft, 1800 sq ft & 2000 sq ft .The 50-30cnl is the 2000 sq ft
These are epa rated low emmisions no smoke stoves that give the same heat as the old timer stove for 1/3 of the wood, resulting in a 66% savings in buying wood & at $200.oo cord,that will pay for the stove within 3 yrs & then you be heating for free, especially if you free scrounge firewood as I do.
www.englanderstoves.com are one of the least expensive & best made stoves for the money
on the face of the planet. You can buy a better stove , at 2 or 3 times the price, but you can't buy as good a stove at the same or even 1.5 times the price.
This the best favor you can ever do for yourself.
Been heating with wood for 3 yrs & never paid one cent for wood,all free. Save $3000.oo to $4000.oo a yr in fuel oil that I don't have to buy at 3.30 a gal so to date,I save 9000.oo to 12,000.oo on not buying fuel oil any more & I use that money to help pay a small portion of my property tax bill with.
<<< I always be sure to have at least a few gallons of gas in one of my 5 gal. cans left over from summer mowing. If I need more, I can go to the gas station. 
>
Not if there is a widespread power outage.
As for the cost of propane, sure I know it's doubled or trippled since 2000, but it's still reasonable as a backup during a power outage.
>Not if there is a widespread power outage.
As for the cost of propane, sure I know it's doubled or trippled since 2000, but it's still reasonable as a backup during a power outage.
The last major power outage here, all local gas stations were without power. It took 2.5 days for them to get power back in town and 8 days for us. If you didn't have gas you were SOL. Fortunately I had a full tank of stabilized gas in the generator. I always keep 5 gal on hand and at least a half tank in our vehicles.
Ken45 said:<<< I always be sure to have at least a few gallons of gas in one of my 5 gal. cans left over from summer mowing. If I need more, I can go to the gas station.
Not if there is a widespread power outage.
As for the cost of propane, sure I know it's doubled or trippled since 2000, but it's still reasonable as a backup during a power outage.
I've lived here 21 years and gone through several power outages. I heep the fuel tank of my 725 horse power gas guzzling power boat full of 93 octane for winter storage. I always have plenty of gas in the 26 gallon tank of my truck. I keep both 5.5 gallon tanks full in the zero turn gas mower that I put up for the winter. The 3 gallon tank in my vintage AC garden tractor is filled for winter lay up. I have a small 1000W generator on hand in case the old green Colman quits. Now, if I go through all the gas I have on hand, and run out of wood to heat with, I can jump in the heated cab of my diesel tractor that I plow my driveway with. If the tractor runs low on fuel, I keep a 50 gallon tank of diesel on hand for winter plowing.
If you don't want to use a generator when your power goes down, fine. Freeze your ass off, and or choke out on your vent free space heater.
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