Help, my QuadraFire is burning my . . .

[theruss]

I believe there is a basic flaw in the design. There only is 12" between the floor and the secondary combustion rods to work with. The bed of live coals gets several inches deep. I actually invented a scoop that sifts the ashes. Removing live coals to add more wood really defeats the purpose. To create room, ash needs to be removed several times a day. The coal bed limits the amount of wood one can load. This means maybe two logs for overnights. In the mornings I often need to let the coals cool and coast to remove ash. My experience indicates Quadrafire overestimated the stove’s output capacity by 150%.

Coals and ash plug the draft vents daily. Eventually this ash will fall into the stove somewhere and pile up. This may compromise dampers and drafts, who knows.

The firebox capacity is deceiving. I’m finding that height is a critical dimension. The stove would have been greatly improved if the floor were dropped two or three inches. The folks at Hearth and Home have not responded any of my concerns. I will consider taking a torch to it next summer. In the meantime, I purchased some additional electric baseboard. That truly does burn my butt.

I may have been spoiled by my little Earthstove. It heated my home on about two cords of wood a year. After 25 years I retired it. The damper got sloppy and it started to leak or poof too often. I once had a 36 hour burn out of it. It was rated for 1,500sq.ft. The Millennium 4300, QuadraFire's second largest stove looked like a great replacement. It's not living up to their specifications.

 

[theruss]

There must be other QuadraFire owner and operators out there. Are you having similar experiences?

 

[nshif]

My 4300 Step Top works great, easily gets 10 hour burns, cruses along at about 450 - 500 for hours and heats almost all of my 2000 Sq Ft ( floor plan problem to 2 rooms ) a third of which has 26' high cathedral ceiling. As far as the coals once a day I open all the air up for about an hour or so let em burn down then rake the ash through the grate into the ash collector and load it bck up.
What type of wood are you burning? I can get 5-6 good size splits in mine with a bed of coals

 

[theruss]

I burn mixed hard wood, oak, birch and some polar. I have dense stuff for overnights and cold weather. I don't have the step top or the ash grate. How much space do you have between the floor and the secondary combustion rods? Do live coals go into the ash tray? Perhaps that is the key, as they still are in the house to provide heat? I thought it would be virturally impossible for the stove to perform as an airtight stove with the ash tray system. I have since wondered if they added it to address the problems I am currently experiencing.

 

[jtp10181]

The ash pan system is fully gasketed and sealed up. Not sure if you can add that to the millennium version though. Sounds like the wood you are burning might have more ash in it than desirable. Either that or you just need to adjust how you burn the stove to get more of the wood burned up.

 

[nshif]

My floor to secondary burn tubes is 14"
The ACS (ash collection system ) is an airtight door in the center bottom of the floor with a drawer below it. the door is only openrd for clean out. Some small coals do fall through the grate when its raked but not much mostly just ash. AFAIK the ACS has been an option for these stoves all along.
What are your typical burn temps? perhaps your not burning hot enough to keep the cals to a min.

 

[Corie]

No offense bud, but this sure sounds like operator error, more than a stove problem. I have the same distance you do, from the base of the firebox to the bottom of the tubes and while I do get built up coals sometimes, I often burn them down with a few small pine splits and then reload on top. My firebox is the same height, but about half the depth of yours, and I have no problem fitting four splits with spacers for overnight burns.


You would have to have a seriously deep coal bed to allow only two splits to fit. The coals would have to be WAY over the door opening for that to be possible, unless of course your splits are 10" in diameter. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong though. Try burning smaller splits and reloading more often? Burn with the air control more open, as then tends to alleviate some of the coaling problems usually encountered by letting the secondary combustion system do most of the work.


Can you take pictures of the coal bed you're fighting? I'm interested to see how bad it is.



Oh and don't take a torch to it. That would be stupid for a number of reasons. Just learn to operate it better.

 

[iceman]

I believe there is a basic flaw in the design. There only is 12" between the floor and the secondary combustion rods to work with. The bed of live coals gets several inches deep. I actually invented a scoop that sifts the ashes. Removing live coals to add more wood really defeats the purpose. To create room, ash needs to be removed several times a day. The coal bed limits the amount of wood one can load. This means maybe two logs for overnights. In the mornings I often need to let the coals cool and coast to remove ash. My experience indicates Quadrafire overestimated the stove’s output capacity by 150%.

Coals and ash plug the draft vents daily. Eventually this ash will fall into the stove somewhere and pile up. This may compromise dampers and drafts, who knows.

The firebox capacity is deceiving. I’m finding that height is a critical dimension. The stove would have been greatly improved if the floor were dropped two or three inches. The folks at Hearth and Home have not responded any of my concerns. I will consider taking a torch to it next summer. In the meantime, I purchased some additional electric baseboard. That truly does burn my butt.

I may have been spoiled by my little Earthstove. It heated my home on about two cords of wood a year. After 25 years I retired it. The damper got sloppy and it started to leak or poof too often. I once had a 36 hour burn out of it. It was rated for 1,500sq.ft. The Millennium 4300, QuadraFire's second largest stove looked like a great replacement. It's not living up to their specifications.

i know what you mean however just because you have a bed of coals does not mean time to reload
i do what was mentioned earlier trake the coals up if you can give it more air and let the bed burn down then put splits on it
i normally can go 2-3 hrs with just a bed of coals at about 400-550 depending before i put more wood in at which time the bed of coals is about an inch or 2

 

[nshif]

The ash pan system is fully gasketed and sealed up. Not sure if you can add that to the millennium version though. .

I think your right JTP, I just looked at my manual which is for both models and it only has installation instructions for the Step Top.

 

[theruss]

I run the vents wide open several times a day. I will hit about 500º's for 20 minutes or more. I try to load fairly large chunks, 6" and avoid splitting if possible. More surface area requires more oxygen. Unburn fuels lead to creosote and potential energy going up the stack. Here's a shot of the stove in the morning. Look Mom, no vent. The four small vents in the back are usually covered as well.

 

[theruss]

Here's a couple more shots: Plus, what recommendation do you have for the stove settings to get a more thorough burn?

 

[Corie]

I guess I'm a little confused. That doesn't look like coal bed, it looks like ash. You said you have a hard time getting ashes out without pulling hot coals out with them?


I assume you're raking out ash in the morning, when most of the hot coals should be found at the rear of the stove and the front of the stove should be all dead ash.


Stop running large chunks. Burn smaller pieces and you'll get less coaling. I have no idea what you're talking about with unburned fuel leading to creosote and potential energy going up the stack. It sounds scientific, but I don't have a clue what is has to with the way you're running the stove. And if you got a 36 hour burn in an Earth Stove you probably know all about creosote and potential energy going up the stack.

Keep the ashes cleaned out of the stove. If that means removing some hot coals in the morning in the interest of keeping a very shallow ash bed, then do it. You hit 500 deg a few times a day, does that mean you spend the rest of the day with the air control mostly shut down?

Also, allowing the dog box holes to get covered up isn't the end of the world. Pull the ashes away from the holes if you can and leave a valley there. The majority of the primary air is sweeping down the glass anyway. And if the rear burn air holes get covered up, open the rear air while doing a hot burn and those holes should blow themselves open.

I still don't see how there are room for only two splits, but I guess that's another issue all together. You're going to fight that baffle height with almost any larger firebox wood stove. You simply can't make the height from the floor of the box to the baffle much more than 13 inches or getting the stove to pass EPA testing is nearly impossible.

 

[nshif]

If you are only hitting 500 for 20 minutes at a time I doubt you are getting much secondary burn. My stove will run above 500 for hours with the air almost all the way down. Try smaller chunks. I know splitting can be a pain but I almost always burn splits less then 5". and you dont have to reload just because you get to coals let them burn for awhile, My stove will stay close to 400 letting the coals burn for an hour or so.

 

[theruss]

This is the bed in the morning before sifting out the ash. There were more coals than present than the picture depicts. The camera flash neutralized the glow. I sift the coals several times a day. Wouldn’t it bother you to tote a load of live coals out the front door to add more wood? I find it painful to think about.

I keep the heat control open the majority of the time. I’m am not sure, theoretically, why a one would not want secondary combustion at all times?

My understanding is, there is only so much oxygen available in the firebox. The more one splits up the wood, the more surface area available. This requires more oxygen. If there isn’t enough oxygen present to burn all the combustible gases, these gases go up the chimney unspent. The means more pollution, creosote and less efficiency. The goal has been to bring in as enough preheated air into the box to burn as much hydrocarbon as possible. So, I generally try to burn the largest, seasoned wood available.

On the 36 hour burn- I cubed the thing out and went for a Holiday vacation. When I returned there were enough coals to build a fire.

 

[theruss]

QuadraFire Step Top-

Where is the temp gage on your stove? I don't think my gage, two foot up the pipe, would exceed 500 without a big load, run wide open for maybe 45 minutes?

 

[precaud]

The catch-22 with the Quads, which have a reputation for running hot (which is a good thing, IMO...), is that if, as Corie suggests, you use smaller pieces, the load takes off and burns uncontrollably.

Burning down red coals takes time and air, so you can tweak your burn habits to accentuate one or the other. With my 2100, what works for me is raking the coals forward (i.e. really piling them up in front of the glass) and putting two 6-7" dia by 14-15" long rounds or splits behind them (that is shorter length than the manual says to use...) This gives about 2 or so hours of flaming and burns off the previous load of coals. Occasionally I'll have to burn the coals pile down before reloading, with say six 1" pieces of pine on top of them.

I don't agree with your conviction about the box height being too low. One of the reasons why you don't see many tall fireboxes is that it's harder to get them to burn clean over a wide range of burn rates. And... it would only make your coaling problem worse; a bigger firebox + same size floor area = more coals...

I think the Quads are optimized more for softwoods. Makes sense, given where they come from.

If you still have revivable coals bed after 36 hours, I'd guess you have insufficient draft.

 

[nshif]

I cant help you much with the controls because my stove has ACC (auto combustion control ) and it sounds like yours doesnt. Having the dog house and rear air holes blocked by coals is no big deal if they are buried in ash thats another story but as Corie said the bulk of the air is coming from above anyway. try to keep more ash out of the stove ( not all a half inch or so is good )
If you arnt splitting your wood are you shure those large rounds are good any dry? Wood in rounds can take longer to dry.

 

[iceman]

This is the bed in the morning before sifting out the ash. There were more coals than present than the picture depicts. The camera flash neutralized the glow. I sift the coals several times a day. Wouldn’t it bother you to tote a load of live coals out the front door to add more wood? I find it painful to think about.

I keep the heat control open the majority of the time. I’m am not sure, theoretically, why a one would not want secondary combustion at all times?

My understanding is, there is only so much oxygen available in the firebox. The more one splits up the wood, the more surface area available. This requires more oxygen. If there isn’t enough oxygen present to burn all the combustible gases, these gases go up the chimney unspent. The means more pollution, creosote and less efficiency. The goal has been to bring in as enough preheated air into the box to burn as much hydrocarbon as possible. So, I generally try to burn the largest, seasoned wood available.

On the 36 hour burn- I cubed the thing out and went for a Holiday vacation. When I returned there were enough coals to build a fire.

use stove therm get stove up to 500-650 and close the air down
here is my stove these pieces have been in for almost 3 hrs my coal bed that started them is pretty much gone see my temps...
when these burn a little more i will open the door and break them up (at which time the will easily fall apart) and then load a couple more pieces
i think you are using to big of splits
when i close my air down the temp usually goes up 100-200 degrees thats my secondary going strong

 

[theruss]

Thanks,

I appreciate the practical advise. You are laying the logs in horizontally, right? The box seems to be made more for loading them straight in, front to back. This was my first adjustment when working with this new stove.

 

[nshif]

My Temp sensor (I use a Fluke meter with a sensor ) is in the center of the top of the stove just in front of the step

 

[ozarkjeep]

those splits look front to back in Icemans Pic Gary.

also, with the front face being 600 degrees, what is the stove TOP temp?

Mine would be in the 750 range, as my stove face stays much cooler than the stove top.

 

[theruss]

Hey,

I've have my temp gage on the pipe. Is this all wrong?

I do have the timer on the draft. Are you saying your temp actually goes up when the bottom damper closes?

 

[iceman]

Thanks,

I appreciate the practical advise. You are laying the logs in horizontally, right? The box seems to be made more for loading them straight in, front to back. This was my first adjustment when working with this new stove.

mine are front to back... but is actually bigger east west

 

[iceman]

Hey,

I've have my temp gage on the pipe. Is this all wrong?

I do have the timer on the draft. Are you saying your temp actually goes up when the bottom damper closes?

yes the stove temp not the pipe my stove is an insert
if your therm.. is a magnectic one move it to the top of the stove or front to see if you have a big diff i think you are running to much air to long therefore temps are just going up the pipe
when you damper down you are slowing air going up the pipe but still allowing air in the box so the box will get much hotterthats how you get the most out of your wood

 

[theruss]

Do you consistantly use your auto control feature?

Where do you tend to run the top damper controlling the upper rods? I believe QuadraFire calls this the "burn rate" although I'm not sure that this is an accurate description.