help w/ stovepipe install please

[smoked out]

Hello all. Does anyone know the proper way to intall the stovepipe. I think it was installed wrong. I have 6" black doublewall telescoping pipe. The bottom pipe fits over the lip on the stove & the top pipe fits over the bottom pipe...& telescopes up to the ceiling support box. The corrugated end of this top pipe is at the top & fits over the adapter that sticks out of the ceiling support box. The end of the pipe does not go IN - in the small space between the adapter & the ceiling support box. It doesn't even meet it. Thank you.
Laura

 

[Dirtsurgeon]

Seems to me the pipe is upside down. I just installed 6" double wall and all corrugated ends were on the bottom of every piece.
Think of water dripping down the inside of your pipe. It should have no chance of working it's way to the outside.
The male end should be pointed down or away from the outside.

My .02

 

[theheatelement]

Are you using that piece in the bottom left that should be attached to your box on the ceiling!!

 

[smoked out]

dirtsurgeon - I have been thinking it's upside down. (The stove store installed it -not I). So if I flipped it the smaller (inner) pipe would then fit inside the the ceiling support box. That's the way it should fit up there right?
The Heat Element- Not sure what your question is. By bottom left do you mean the first pic on the left? My inner (smaller) pipe is on the bottom & the outer (larger) one is on the top - screwed to the adapter.
It appears they mixed brands too...on my receipt is:
6T-DS-CPA-6" chimney adapter (googled -it's probably a Metalbest by Selkirk-but mine doesn't look black like the pix)
ICUC6UBAF Black Adjust 40-68"(googled it's an Ultablack double-wall by ICC)
The ceiling support & everthing above it was already in place when I bought the house so I don't know what brand everything else is.
Do you think I'm OK if I just put the pipe right side up now? Thanks a bunch.

 

[jtb51b]

Selkirk Double wall has the corrugations facing away from the stove on the outside pipe, the inside is opposite.. Check out the manual from selkirk online. (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=1836)



Jason

 

[theheatelement]

Everything going down chimney wise needs to fit into the next section or into the fireplace collar- I would show those pics to the owner of your dealer and hopefully he would know the obvious!!

 

[smoked out]

jtb51b, According to the labeled pic on the top right of page 2 these instructions are saying mine is correct...narrower inner pipe on bottom... no?
But my bottom pipe does not go INTO the stove like they say to do in that illustration.... The female end is "over the appliance outlet collar"... like they say to do in step 1 of Installation Guide #1 at the top left of page 4... they've already contradicted themselves. In step 3 they say to extend the telescopic length up - w/o making it clear if it's the inner or outer pipe actually. In fig A the "telescopic length" is the bottom pipe & in fig B it's the top pipe so there is no indication which half is the inner/outer.
The Heat Element, The dealer installed it this way & was quite irate with me when I went there to question the install...the daughter rolling her eyes & a sarcastic customer agreeing that the first thing to do is point the finger at the chimney sweep ! but a 5 yr old could probably see how it goes back together - by lining up the screw holes.
Back to the adapter being Selkirk, the pipe being ICC, & the chimney pipe brand is unknown - what to do? Anyone who looked at it would first have to identify the brand of chimney pipe no? ...& then build down from there with THAT brand. I can see it now - they'll say I have to replace everything from the stovepipe up instead of just matching brands.

 

[rwhite]

Not able to answer your questions but did the installer pull a permit and was it inspected? I thought living in CA you needed permits to change light bulbs. Just the pics of the ceiling support tells me it was probably a shoddy job that was pieced together with whatever parts they had at the shop. Not much pride in workmanship when you leave gobs of cement on your work. Did you pay for the install or did it come with the purchase of the stove? I'd contact the inspecting authority and see if they pulled a permit.

 

[DexterDay]

The section of adjustable Double wall I have, has NO crimped end. Its just a standard end. The end for the stove needs a Stove Adapter, and whether it goes to a ceiling support box or a thimble, it needs the Simpson Close Clearance Adapter. Something looks all wrong with it. No Stove adapter. No Close Clearance Adapter?

 

[smoked out]

the shoddy ceiling & the ceiling support box was that way when I bought the house. There was a cap on the hole in the ceiling. Everything from there up was already here. Scary, that the chimney pipe might be yet another brand. I paid for the install & stove at the same time. I paid $99 for the burn permit which includes (requires) an inspection from the bldg dept. (The one that missed alot of flaws in my house after I paid $350 before I put an offer on the house.) I'm pretty sure the store couldn't get away with improper credentials in this small town.
The close clearance adapter ??? I'm no expert. That adapter in my pics is what's up in the ceiling support box. Is that the part you say I need? I got that pic of it off the net by googling the sku number on my receipt. Again, I'm no expert (but it seems it's a requirement around here) but I don't think you need a stove adapter on every stove. I think it's just needed if nothing fits the stove. There was no adapter in the product catalog.

 

[jtb51b]

I believe it is oriented correctly but not all the pieces are there. You do need a stove adapter for the DSP and possibly a universal chimney adapter, or brand specific if possible.. The way I understand it is that the stove adapter both goes inside and outside the stoves flue collar and makes the transition to the stove pipe correctly, from there the DSP attaches.. This will also give you about 5" more height so it might help with the the telescoping piece being able to make up. Not sure if you are running short or not but if so this would help with that as well.. BTW they use a finishing collar (should have came with the telescoping piece) to hide the corrugated end up top as its not going to fit into anything at the transition.. Hope this helps some.


Jason

 

[DexterDay]

Dont all Male crimped ends have to point down. So that any water, creosote, etc, can go down the pipe without leaking? At least thats my understanding. Crimped end should go into stove, opposite end should go into an adapter or finishing collar.

 

[begreen]

Back to the adapter being Selkirk, the pipe being ICC, & the chimney pipe brand is unknown - what to do? Anyone who looked at it would first have to identify the brand of chimney pipe no? ...& then build down from there with THAT brand. I can see it now - they'll say I have to replace everything from the stovepipe up instead of just matching brands.

I think that's your answer. Different brands of pipe to do not mix and match. Your system is not correctly installed if they used different brand components. If the original flue pipe is Selkirk, then the double-wall connector needs to be Selkirk also.

It would be good to take a critical look at the rest of the system. Can you post some pictures of the rest of the flue system?

Also, what make and model stove is this? What is the distance from the back of the stove to the nearest combustible? Same question for the stove pipe connector? The clearances could be fine, but it is hard to tell from the photo.

The adapter you have pictured looks more like Simpson than Selkirk. This is what Selkirk DSP components would look like. If they used a Selkirk adapter, that might explain the exposed crimping. It gets covered with a finishing band.

 

[SteveKG]

Dont all Male crimped ends have to point down. So that any water, creosote, etc, can go down the pipe without leaking? .

No, this is not true. Well, it is true with single-wall pipe. With double-walled pipe, the outer pipe has the crimp on the upper [away from the stove] end. The inner pipe has the crimped section on the lower, toward the stove end. The proper connector for transitioning from stovepipe to chimney pipe takes care of this and covers up the outer pipe's crimped section visually. I don't have a camera handy or I'd send a shot of ours.

It is possible, though I cannot tell without being there and looking at the stove, that the stove requires a stove adaptor for the pipe to transition to the stove. Some stoves do not. But sometimes whoever installed the pipe does not know this and reverses the first section of stovepipe to make it fit the stove collar. Maybe that happened here, I don't know. I am not an installer or anything, but I've seen quite a few stove installations over the years in which whoever did the install did it wrong in this way.

And BeGreen is right: it may seem assinine, but different brands of pipe do not match up properly. I went through this just last year with a new stove we bought.

 

[begreen]

I also see some sort of black sealant used on the adapter. Normally this is not necessary. If that is not a very high temp furnace cement, it may also smoke.

 

[smoked out]

Be Green, The back of the stove is 14 1/4" from the wall. No walls next to it. What I can see of the adapter (& what they showed me out of the box at the store) looks like the Selkirk in the pic you posted.
I don't think there's sealant up there. If you're referring to my pic, that light color you see seems to be ash stuck to creosote in one small spot (about 1 1/2 ") & the rest of the light & dark color you see is creosote & light reflecting off the creosote.
Continued searches revealed that not all telescoping pipes are designed to be installed with the narrow half of the pipe on top.
The stovepipe is ICC. The instructions say
- place both sections on the floor the with the black crimped ends up
- pick up the section with the yellow label & slide it over the other section
- set the adjustable length so that the bottom sits over the flue collar of the stove, in most cases the outer casing will rest on the stove top. Screw through the outer casing into the flue collar with 3 3/4" metal screws. Slide the top portion of the connector over the chimney pipe adapter [that Selkirk adapter]until it's flush with the finish support. [ no mention that it should be up INTO the ceiling like I was thinking]
There's no mention that the strap is required but I will put it back anyway.
Now I'm waiting for calls back from the (only) chimney sweep, from ICC, & an e-mail from another stove store that's having a look at my pics.
Called Kuma (they were very nice). He said that the mixing of brands would not cause such fast creosote build-up & hence smoke coming in. The issue with mixing parts is a fire safety issue. So yes, that needs to be addressed but creosote build-up is also a fire hazard & thus far there's no explanation for that. It didn't happen last year with wet weather, wet wood & hence burning low.
I've only had the stove 2 winters. Plucked eveyone's brain for how to's ever since. A friend's stove melted because kids broke in & filled it with kindling (including manzanita). So I never let it go above 550. Today Kuma said I should stuff it w/ wood, let it get to 7 or 8 hundred degrees (would take about 1/2 hr) & then shut it down completely. I have never shut it down completely because it would eventually go - out leaving unburned charred wood... which he said would not happen if I got the 10-20% water out by getting it up to 7 or 8 hundred first. So that's next on the agenda after the chimney sweep decides to call back & show up. Hopefully he could tell what brand the chimney pipe is & then I may have to get a new adapter, new stovepipe or both. BUT, since I've been burning wrong all along there's still no explanation for creosote building up so much & so fast this yr & not last yr. Even Kuma said that an incorrect install is a fire hazard in itself BUT not BECAUSE of creosote build-up (quite another issue) - that creosote builds up from low burn &/or wet wood. An incorrect install would not cause smoke to come into the house.
I don't know what you want pics of. I doubt a pic of the inside of the chimney would come out. I can't get into the attic (no ladder). But as soon as the camera battery is charged I will take a pic of the chimney. Would like to know if it needs to be taller but I'm a bit afraid of it being so tall that it could break it a strong wind.

 

[smoked out]

Name that brand !
Is it tall enough?
Thanks

 

[smoked out]

Mystery solved. The probable reason for my chimney clogging in 2 1/2 months of burning dry wood hotter that last years wet wood was that the handyman did not do a thorough job cleaning my chimney this summer before burn season. The handyman that cleaned my stove in the summer is the same guy who cleaned it again after the smoke was coming into the house a week ago. Two days ago I got a chimney sweep in to inspect the connections. A cleaning was another $20 so I had him do it. There was a clog a few feet down from the top of the chimney that had an opening about the size of a baseball for smoke to escape. So the handyman was not thorough a week ago & might not have been in the summer either. Regarding Kuma's suggestion to get it up to 700 or 800 & shut it completely - the chimney sweep was appalled by such bad advice & said that when his stove goes into the red he SCRAMBLES to get it down - for fear of fire. Thanks to all for your input.