Help,Where to put the stove??? and other questions

[Hiram Maxim]

Hello everybody,

I have been reading these wonderful forums and I have some questions.

Some information about me.

The house that I grew up in (Grandparents) had natural gas with base board heat, forced air for AC/Heat back up and a huge Masters Choice wood burner for power outages,common here in Detroit. So I learned how to stay warm from their Great depression era experience and see there needs to be a back up for the back up and be a less reliant on others.

The house I'm living in now is just over 2000 sq ft built in 1953 and has old single pane wood windows, zero insulation in the walls but plenty in the ceiling. My February 2007 gas bill was just shy of $400 using natural gas and a 6 year old 80% forced air furnace. Needless to say I want to offset some of my heating costs and have always loved the heat from a wood stove. I also have a ton of seasoned firewood thanks to the Ash Bore.

I'm leaning towards the Englander 30-NC.

I see that overstockstoves.com has the same model 50-TNC30L for $799 delivered. Is this distributor reputable???


Also I have two options of where to place the stove. They are both in the center of the house.

1st is in the fire place and go directly up into the clay pipe 10"x 12" chimney? There is 18" of hearth in front of the where the stove would go.

2nd is I have an indoor charcoal grill and I could remove the steel hood and pipe a 90 into that clay pipe chimney. It would be 30" of the ground for easy loading.

Only problem in using the chimney with the grill is that I believe my gas fire place(1st back up) in the basement may run through it. I assume this is a big no no?

The water heater and furnace have a separate chimney so thats not a problem.

So is a 316 stainless liner/flex pipe the only way to go?

Or should I use the masonry chimney?

What is the best way to move the stove? Got a link to a hand-truck? Thing weighs 455lbs.

Thank you,Hiram Maxim

 

[eernest4]

the englander 50-30ncl is a great stove & at 2000 sq ft is sized properly to heat your entire house.

Keeping in mind that the stove has the heating power to do the entire house, you need to look
at your internal house natural convection current paths.

What room in your house will you want the heat in the most & will the heat be easily able to transfer by way of natural convection air currents to all the other areas of your house.

the 50-30ncl is a 75,000 btu per hour stove, so it needs to be in a big (your biggest)
room, just so that it wont overheat the room.

The stove can probably be cut down to 40,000 btu /hr, just by setting the primary air low.

If you need to cut it down more than that, you must build a smaller fire with less wood ,so that the stove wont get so hot.

I'm not going to get into the chimney thing, too many here would jump on me if i said the wrong thing, especially about chimneys.

But, you want to put that stove, (great choice of stoves, btw) in the biggest centrally located room that can distribute heat to the rest of the house and then you can forget about using your gas furnace for anything but back up or when you are away from the house.

A good central location for the stove will heat your whole house & a bad location will only heat the room the stove is in and the ajacent room; so choose wisely.

 

[BrotherBart]

Put it in the fireplace. Sitting up on that barbecue brickwork would put the stove too close to the ceiling for clearances to combustible materials. And were the brick work to not be able to hold up the stove, 500 pounds of hot steel and burning wood tumbling out into the room would be a real Come To J moment. Eyeballing that fireplace it looks to be around 35 inches high at the lintel so the 30 would fit.

When moving it when you take out the bricks and take off the door you peel a hundred or so pounds off of it but most dollies aren't big enough for its footprint. The ideal mover for it is a pallet jack. Believe me.

As far as overstockstoves.com I wouldn't be worried about their reputability.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

the englander 50-30ncl is a great stove & at 2000 sq ft is sized properly to heat your entire house.

What room in your house will you want the heat in the most & will the heat be easily able to transfer by way of natural convection

A good central location for the stove will heat your whole house & a bad location will only heat the room the stove is in and the adjacent room; so choose wisely.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The 2 rooms (1200 sq ft) you can see in the picture are the largest rooms in the house and are central. All the bedrooms and kitchen are adjacent to this large central area. This is where 80% of my time is occupied.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Put it in the fireplace. Sitting up on that barbecue brickwork would put the stove too close to the ceiling for clearances to combustible materials. And were the brick work to not be able to hold up the stove, 500 pounds of hot steel and burning wood tumbling out into the room would be a real Come To J moment. Eyeballing that fireplace it looks to be around 35 inches high at the lintel so the 30 would fit.

When moving it when you take out the bricks and take off the door you peel a hundred or so pounds off of it but most dollies aren't big enough for its footprint. The ideal mover for it is a pallet jack. Believe me.

As far as overstockstoves.com I wouldn't be worried about their reputability.

Brother Bart,

I had thought about ceiling clearance as well. Was thinking about slate or stone tiles as an option.

I was looking at harbor freights pallet jacks last week $299...... ouch. But it would also be a good thing to have for moving my machine tools around or palletized firewood.

The fireplace is 30" high x 36 wide x 20" deep so 5" will be sticking out on the hearth.

What about the chimney?

 

[eernest4]

seems like either of those two rooms would do AS FAR AS HEAT FLOW CONVECTION CURRENTS.

so now its down to, or up to the chimney experts to tell you which chimney it is ok to hook into.

SO, CHIMNEY EXPERTS,CHIME IN HERE.Please!

 

[BrotherBart]

The pallet jacks at Harbor go on sale for $199 about once a month it seems. With six inch legs the 30 can work in a 30 inch high fireplace. With the pedestal or standard nine inch legs it won't fit and since you can't rear vent it, it wouldn't work.

Put a liner in that chimney. It is the only way to go. Safer, easier to clean and does wonders for the draft through the stove.

PS: The Harbor pallet jack is a nice one.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

The pallet jacks at Harbor go on sale for $199 about once a month it seems. With six inch legs the 30 can work in a 30 inch high fireplace. With the pedestal or standard nine inch legs it won't fit and since you can't rear vent it, it wouldn't work.

Put a liner in that chimney. It is the only way to go. Safer, easier to clean and does wonders for the draft through the stove.

PS: The Harbor pallet jack is a nice one.

I wonder why the website says 27 3/4" high?

Does the stove than measure 30 3/4" high?

I will look for a pallet jack. any idea how high you can jack it up off the floor?

Also who makes the best flex pipe kits? I dont want to spend crazy amount on that!!

Thank you,Hiram

 

[BrotherBart]

I wonder why the website says 27 3/4" high?

Does the stove than measure 30 3/4" high?

I will look for a pallet jack. any idea how high you can jack it up off the floor?

Also who makes the best flex pipe kits? I dont want to spend crazy amount on that!!

Thank you,Hiram

The 27 3/4" is the height of the stove with six inch legs or the pedestal. It comes with nine inch legs these days. 29" to the top of the flue collar with the ped or the six inch legs.

Get you a stainless liner off of a seller on eBay and install it yourself for around four hundred. Even if it is legal to do a direct connect where you live you do not want to be lugging that stove out of the fireplace once or twice a year to clean the chimney. Back surgery costs more than chimney liners.

 

[Harley]

Definately go for the SS liner. If you don't have a lot of use for the pallet jack, other than moving the stove... you could save a few bucks there. You'll need an extra hand or 2 there anyway for the day of the instal. 4 or 5 pieces of 1 1/2 or 2" pvc cut a little bit longer than the width of the pallet will work fine - just slowly roll it across the floor, and it won't damage anything.

 

[Corie]

Hope this helps you.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Thank you everybody!

 

[begreen]

Rent the proper equipment for moving the stove if this is a one shot deal. And have several bodies on hand if possible (and a case of beer in the cooler - for afterwards, not during the move).

 

[Hiram Maxim]

I wonder why the website says 27 3/4" high?

Does the stove than measure 30 3/4" high?

I will look for a pallet jack. any idea how high you can jack it up off the floor?

Also who makes the best flex pipe kits? I dont want to spend crazy amount on that!!

Thank you,Hiram

The 27 3/4" is the height of the stove with six inch legs or the pedestal. It comes with nine inch legs these days. 29" to the top of the flue collar with the ped or the six inch legs.

Get you a stainless liner off of a seller on eBay and install it yourself for around four hundred. Even if it is legal to do a direct connect where you live you do not want to be lugging that stove out of the fireplace once or twice a year to clean the chimney. Back surgery costs more than chimney liners.

Brother Bart,
What liner kit did you end up going with or would you go with now? Planning on spending about $400 + or -
What manufacture is on the level? And per your suggestion I'm going with the stove in the fireplace and a blower. I'm going to move on this ASAP as my last gas bill was $201.84.........omg!!
Thank you Hiram Maxim

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Definately go for the SS liner. If you don't have a lot of use for the pallet jack, other than moving the stove... you could save a few bucks there. You'll need an extra hand or 2 there anyway for the day of the instal. 4 or 5 pieces of 1 1/2 or 2" pvc cut a little bit longer than the width of the pallet will work fine - just slowly roll it across the floor, and it won't damage anything.

I do have a need for a pallet jack for moving machine tools or pallets of wood. Thanks for the pvc suggestion. I helped move a 3 axis CNC milling machine with steel pipe once like that before.

 

[G-rott]

Sound like the stove is covered... I only have one thing to add.

AIR SEAL and INSULATE,

What is the exterior of your home, Brick, Shingle, Wood?

Garett

 

[BrotherBart]

Brother Bart,
What liner kit did you end up going with or would you go with now? Planning on spending about $400 + or -
What manufacture is on the level? And per your suggestion I'm going with the stove in the fireplace and a blower. I'm going to move on this ASAP as my last gas bill was $201.84.........omg!!
Thank you Hiram Maxim

If you have a straight shot from the top to the bottom I would use a Simpson Duraflex kit from Hart's Hearth at heartshearth.com. That is what I used to replace my last one. People here have had good results with Chimney Liner Depot (eBay ID springhill1294) and Rockford Chimney (eBay ID Rockford). My only problem with them was they tried to do my thinking for me after I was off the phone and caused me grief and money when what I got wasn't exactly what I told them I wanted. Hart's sent me what I asked for. The guy from Magnaflex that is here on the Forum says he can arrange decent deals on a liner so you might want to PM him.

Be sure you know what you are up against with your current chimney as far as inside dimensions, turns and twists, height etc. before ordering a liner. If you DIY you pay for any screw-ups.

Also remember that when you put the stove in the fireplace you will need a way to control the blower. You won't be able to reach the on/off/speed control back there. I use one of these:

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SA-4008&eq;=

These stove makers, liner peddlers and speed control people need to pony up and start sponsoring this Forum. And mail my commission checks.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Sound like the stove is covered... I only have one thing to add.

AIR SEAL and INSULATE,

What is the exterior of your home, Brick, Shingle, Wood?

Garett

The home is brick and stone.

Are you referring to the insulation in the walls or chimney?

The fireplace is in the center of my home. Is there still a need to insulate that?

I know that there really needs to be a cover plate over where the flu was?

Thank you, Hiram Maxim

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Brother Bart,
What liner kit did you end up going with or would you go with now? Planning on spending about $400 + or -
What manufacture is on the level? And per your suggestion I'm going with the stove in the fireplace and a blower. I'm going to move on this ASAP as my last gas bill was $201.84.........omg!!
Thank you Hiram Maxim

If you have a straight shot from the top to the bottom I would use a Simpson Duraflex kit from Hart's Hearth at heartshearth.com. That is what I used to replace my last one. People here have had good results with Chimney Liner Depot (eBay ID springhill1294) and Rockford Chimney (eBay ID Rockford). My only problem with them was they tried to do my thinking for me after I was off the phone and caused me grief and money when what I got wasn't exactly what I told them I wanted. Hart's sent me what I asked for. The guy from Magnaflex that is here on the Forum says he can arrange decent deals on a liner so you might want to PM him.

Be sure you know what you are up against with your current chimney as far as inside dimensions, turns and twists, height etc. before ordering a liner. If you DIY you pay for any screw-ups.

Also remember that when you put the stove in the fireplace you will need a way to control the blower. You won't be able to reach the on/off/speed control back there. I use one of these:

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SA-4008&eq;=

These stove makers, liner peddlers and speed control people need to pony up and start sponsoring this Forum. And mail my commission checks.

I have a straight shot up with a slite bend in the bottom.

Now can the flex pipe be hooked up directly to the stove? This is where I'm a little confused!

Thank you,Hiram Maxim

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Brother Bart,
What liner kit did you end up going with or would you go with now? Planning on spending about $400 + or -
What manufacture is on the level? And per your suggestion I'm going with the stove in the fireplace and a blower. I'm going to move on this ASAP as my last gas bill was $201.84.........omg!!
Thank you Hiram Maxim

Also remember that when you put the stove in the fireplace you will need a way to control the blower. You won't be able to reach the on/off/speed control back there. I use one of these:

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5SA-4008&eq;=

These stove makers, liner peddlers and speed control people need to pony up and start sponsoring this Forum. And mail my commission checks.

Brother Bart this link wasn't active!

Thank you,Hiram maxim

 

[BrotherBart]

Type Dial A Temp in the search box on northlineexpress.com

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Thank you Sir! :cheese: