Help with clearances for a Jøtul f500 please

[Crunchiespg]

Hi all. New here. I read lots before we just purchased and had installed our Jøtul f500 with double wall pipe.

We purchased the heat shield to make clearances easier, and have plenty of hearth as we ripped out an old wall and open wood fireplace that was previously there. So the new hearth had to cover where the old wall stood.
We are happy with the set up in every way apart from the heat shield. It is so ugly and doesn’t match our nice blue black enamel stove. It looks like such an afterthought the way it just hangs unevenly at the back.

So I’m thinking of adding some wall proptection over the drywall behind the stove and removing the heat shield.
But the manual doesn’t seem to give me the clearance numbers for a double wall pipe WITHOUT the rear heat shield to a protected surface

Right now the closest part of the stove other than the heat shield is the double wall pipe and it is 10” away from the rear wall.

Is this sufficient if I remove the heat shield and put some thermal protection on the wall?
How high and wide must this protection be? What’s the best method? I’m guessing some metal sheet spaced out from the wall on square metal tubing or something?

Thank you for any advice you can offer.

 

[Crunchiespg]

Here’s the old fireplace part way through removal for anyone interested.

Removing the triangle wall has really opened up our house. And the furnace hasn’t ran for over two weeks now since we got the stove burning.

 

[Crunchiespg]

Here’s a picture showing the current state of install.
We are just finishing up the painting on the rear wall and then just the triangle of ceiling that you can see that needs the texture applied to match the rest. Then the job is done.
Also some pictures of how I built the hearth.

 

[edyit]

I could be mistaken but i think that without that shield you would need either 36" of clearance or with a properly built ventilated shield 12" of clearance

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Your manual should have all the clearances listed for all different installs. Corner install, with heat shield, without heat shield, clearances to combustibles, to non combustibles, etc. as far as double wall stove pipe, I believe it's 6 inches to combustibles.

 

[webby3650]

Unfortunately since the manual doesn’t state clearances to a protected wall then you are kinda stuck. You aren’t allowed to reduce clearances beyond what the manual states.
However, I agree, the heat shield is ugly! Adding a properly spaced shield to the wall would do fine I’m sure, but insurance might have an issue with it in the event of a claim..

 

[Crunchiespg]

Your manual should have all the clearances listed for all different installs. Corner install, with heat shield, without heat shield, clearances to combustibles, to non combustibles, etc. as far as double wall stove pipe, I believe it's 6 inches to combustibles.

The manual has clearances listed for no heat shield with single wall pipe. Or heat shield with double wall pipe.

It doesn’t specify clearances for no heat shield with a double wall pipe.

So obviously a double wall pipe is better than single wall. So that would be the worst case scenario and I could follow that for clearances as my set up would be fine at that. But ideally I’d like it closer than that.

So that would be 12” with a protected wall. Or 18” with my current wall.

My theory was maybe my double wall pipe will allow me to come down to the 10” I currently have and then I don’t have to move the stove forward and play around with the stove pipe angles.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Without a pic of the diagram I don't know what the letters represent but I think it says right the on the last line that you could have a minimum 6"

 

[kennyp2339]

I know in the us the double wall black pipe needs a minimum clearance of 6" from combustibles, as far a ventilated wall mounted heat shield using 1" spacers and having atleast 1" space at the bottom and top of the shield I'm not sure if it allowed the clearance to be reduced by 1/3 or 1/2, a good person to ask would be @bholler

 

[Crunchiespg]

Without a pic of the diagram I don't know what the letters represent but I think it says right the on the last line that you could have a minimum 6"

It tells you at the top of that chart what it represents. Side rear or corner.
On the left it describes the shield/pipe combinations. So it gives all the information that the diagrams give just in written form.

If you use both sides of the chart and cross the grid you get the various clearances.

With my current rear shield and double wall pipe I only need 6” of clearances. We currently have 10”.

 

[webby3650]

I know in the us the double wall black pipe needs a minimum clearance of 6" from combustibles, as far a ventilated wall mounted heat shield using 1" spacers and having atleast 1" space at the bottom and top of the shield I'm not sure if it allowed the clearance to be reduced by 1/3 or 1/2, a good person to ask would be @bholler

On this particular stove, clearances can not be reduced. It’s only allowed if the manufacturer states it in the manual. Clearance reduction by a protected wall is only allowed on non-ul listed stoves or if the manufacturer allows it.

 

[Crunchiespg]

But here’s the diagram if it makes it easier.

My issue is my desired combination isn’t listed.
I’m thinking worst case is 12”. But wondering if my double wall pipe can bring that 12” down a little at all?

 

[kennyp2339]

non-ul listed stove

Take the rear tag off and you have a non listed stove, kinda dumb but that's how its treated

 

[webby3650]

Take the rear tag off and you have a non listed stove, kinda dumb but that's how its treated

No, not really. Any investigation would reveal it to be a modern stove. Besides, most insurance companies will not cover an un-listed stove.

 

[begreen]

A proper ventilated NFPA 211 heat shield will reduce clearances by 66%, if the stove manual or inspecting authority permits it. Many stoves are vague about this but not in this case. The F500 manual specifically calls out what they allow and have tested for a ventilated wall shield so that becomes the guiding document. For this stove, the closest rear clearance the stove can have with an NFPA 211 wall shield is 6" assuming the connector is double-wall or shielded single-wall.

FWIW, we had the F400 which was strongly radiant. Our stove had the factory heatshield. We had almost double the required clearance for an unprotected corner install and I was uncomfortable with the wall temps.

For the curious, the NFPA 211 table 12.6.2.1 wall reduction chart is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/nfpa-wall-clearance-reductions/

 

[Crunchiespg]

A proper ventilated NFPA 211 heat shield will reduce clearances by 66%, if the stove manual or inspecting authority permits it. Many stoves are vague about this but not in this case. The F400 manual specifically calls out what they allow and have tested for a ventilated wall shield so that becomes the guiding document. The closest rear clearance the stove can have with an NFPA 211 wall shield is 7" assuming the connector is double-wall.

FWIW, the F400 is strongly radiant. We had almost double the required clearance for an unprotected corner install and I was uncomfortable with the wall temps.

I don’t have a f400.
F500 which is very different. For instance I only need ember floor protection, your f400 needs a very high R rated hearth.
That’s one of the big reasons we went up to the f500.

But back to topic, my manual calls out for clearances with the wall shield. But not with a double wall pipe without the stove rear heat shield.

So I’m theory I should be better than a single wall pipe which is listed as needing 12” to a protected wall with my stove.

 

[begreen]

I don’t have a f400.
F500 which is very different. For instance I only need ember floor protection, your f400 needs a very high R rated hearth.
That’s one of the big reasons we went up to the f500.

But back to topic, my manual calls out for clearances with the wall shield. But not with a double wall pipe without the stove rear heat shield.

So I’m theory I should be better than a single wall pipe which is listed as needing 12” to a protected wall with my stove.

Yes, corrected my typo while you were typing. You can attach shields to single wall pipe for full reduction to 6" without wall protection.
http://www.imperialgroup.ca/stove_stoveboardsheatshields.cfm?c=346
With double-wall stove pipe the clearance minimum is 6".

 

[Crunchiespg]

Here’s the pipe connector specs part of the manual.

 

[Crunchiespg]

Yes, corrected my typo while you were typing. You can attach shields to single wall pipe for full reduction to 6" without wall protection.
http://www.imperialgroup.ca/stove_stoveboardsheatshields.cfm?c=346

I don’t have a single wall pipe.
That’s what’s causing my question. I have a double wall pipe and a heat shield. I want to stop using the heat shield and use a wall protector instead.

 

[begreen]

Reread my post. I was copying the table and links up.

 

[Crunchiespg]

Reread my post. I was copying the table and links up.

But that only answers half the question.

The question is the stove clearance. I know the pipe can be 6” from the wall
But on the chart above that it talks about stove clearances with or without a heat shield. This distance changes depending on the pipe and heat shield combination.

My current combination allows 6”. I have 10”.
I would like to use a combination that is not listed. No heat shield with a double wall pipe.

No heat shield with a single wall pipe can be 12” to protected wall. So in theory a double wall pipe with no heat shield could be less than this. But the manual doesn’t have that combination.


So yes pipe is no problem at 6”. But what about the stove? The way I read it is you have to cover both clearances. Obviously whichever is higher takes priority.

 

[begreen]

The chart only lists the minimums. There is no harm in exceeding the minimum. Personally I think it's a good idea. Double-wall stove pipe still radiates a lot of heat, just not as strongly as single-wall.

If a proper, ventilated NFPA 211 wall shield is installed behind the stove then at 10" the installation should meet or exceed the minimum requirements as defined in the manual.

 

[edyit]

my understanding from looking at the diagram is you would have to go with the measurement for "E" stove with no heat shield. since that's the only listing for the stove itself. the others are are listings with the heat shield, and/or clearance to pipe. but from what i see the stove itself with no heat shield on a ventilated wall has to be 12"

 

[Crunchiespg]

my understanding from looking at the diagram is you would have to go with the measurement for "E" stove with no heat shield. since that's the only listing for the stove itself. the others are are listings with the heat shield, and/or clearance to pipe. but from what i see the stove itself with no heat shield on a ventilated wall has to be 12"

That was kind of my thought but did wonder if the double wall pipe would give me 2” back so I don’t have to move the stove.

I guess moving it out 2” to 12” isn’t the end of the world. I assume there is plenty of play in the telescoping stove pipe to change the angle a bit.

Now I just need to decide on a wall shield size and design.

 

[Crunchiespg]

Ok I’ve been reading up on the requirements for a wall heat shield.
Seems like a sheet of metal spaced 1” out and on non combustible spacers is what’s required.

But I can’t find any information on how big it needs to be.
How much wider and taller than the stove does it need to be? I’m going to move the stove out to 12” from the wall so should be plenty of clearance.
I’m thinking I’ll use either a sheet of stainless or maybe copper would look good. Any suggestions?

I saw a video I believe where a guy did a corner install and had some magnetic trim pieces for the sides of the shield but I can’t find it again. Anyone know the video? He installed his chimney and stuff in the video too and think he had kids that homeschooled and had their desks in the room by the fire.

Thank you for the help so far.