Help with Distance to Combustibles

[cos_man99]

Please help. I am beginning the process of pulling the trigger on a Lopi Declaration insert. The local Lopi dealer came to my house yesterday to inspect my hearth/chimney. I was at work but my wife was at home. I think the guy saw what he deemed a "defenseless lady" and tried to sell her a bunch of stuff we don't need.

One of the things he pushed was some sort of hearth fire sheild because he claimed our hearth is not deep enough and our carpet floor is too close to the front of the insert. I have a raised hearth that is 16" deep and 12" high. According to what I have seen the hearth depth requirement for the Lopi Declaration is 16". My wife said the dealer's book showed 17". My question to you is, doesn't my one foot of elevation put me well within the specs for this insert in terms of hearth depth?

I have attached a crude sketch that I quickly drew up here at work to illustrate what I am saying.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[begreen]

Well, you are not alone in your confusion and I can understand why. The website shows it as 16" hearth depth and the (2007) manual shows 17.25". I thought the new regs required 18".

Usually this is solvable by adding a nice tile or brick border in front of the raised hearth.

 

[cos_man99]

So the fact that my hearth is raised does not make a difference? I still need the 18" of depth you think?

 

[CarbonNeutral]

While of course the distance to create combustion from radiant heat is more than the required because of the step, I would guess that some of the thinking is also about embers/logs rolling out - your step doesn't help that, though will 2" make a difference - probably not.

 

[Uper]

Yes, I think the requirement is 18". Mine is elevated close to a foot also, but I have the 18" where you have 16". I had a tough time finding an insert that would fit the steel fireplace I have. The Regency was really the only one. However, a dealer of other brands from the Soo came out and said he could put an insert in that would stick out from the fireplace, but he said that we would have to extend the hearth in front to meet code. It would have been more than my wife wanted to do, so I ended up getting the Regency insert and installed it and the chimney liner myself. The dealer of Regency's in the Soo had gone out of business during all this. BTW, the quotes for this work were coming in at around $4200.00-$4600.00. We ended up with around $2600 invested by doing it ourselves and had the benefit of the tax rebate.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I might point out that the 16"/17.5"/18" (go ahead, pick one) are from the GLASS in the door on all the stoves I have messed with. My brothers insert sticks out about 7 inches.. so his insert would only give you 9" of hearth in front of the glass.

the product guide online for the Lopi says it has a 1 1/2" extension on to the hearth. so if the glass is 1 1/2 farther out then the front of the fireplace opening, you only will have (at best) 14.5 inches of hearth. and that manual calls for 16", but running changes are the norm in manufacturing. the national code will go to a minimum of 18" soon. Your installer may be using a local code that requires 17" minimum, and that local code will/does trump the stove manual.

also: some manuals do allow for height to be part of the clearance equasion, but it appears the manual for that stove does not.

 

[grommal]

When we bought a new stove a year ago, its depth and rear clearance needs caused us to drop below the 18" front clearance. I ended up putting in one row of tile in front of our hearth in order to be sure I had the 18". It's not that big a job, and it looks pretty good, too.

I just wish I had known this was going to happen a year before that, as I was installing the new Pergo flooring right up to the hearth in that room! It would have been easier to do the tile at that time, rather than rip out some of my brand new Pergo to retrofit the tile.

 

[sixman]

I don't know if this helps you decide to extend your hearth or not but Dakatas Dad pointed out to me that my hearth did not meet the 18 inch specs of the manufactures install manual. I plan to extend the hearth which is just ceramic tile on cement slab and all I have to do is pull up some more of the vinyl tile in front of the stove after I get it set in place. I was concerned about whether or not heating with a wood stove would affect my home owners insurance rates so I called them to find out. She said that the rate would not change but that they were required to come out after the install was complete to take measurements and pictures to verify proper installation. I am glad that I called because if I had a fire due to the stove, it would not have been covered without their inspection and verification on file. Just thought I would share this for anyone else that new to wonderful wood heat.

 

[grommal]

I don't know if this helps you decide to extend your hearth or not but Dakatas Dad pointed out to me that my hearth did not meet the 18 inch specs of the manufactures install manual. I plan to extend the hearth which is just ceramic tile on cement slab and all I have to do is pull up some more of the vinyl tile in front of the stove after I get it set in place. I was concerned about whether or not heating with a wood stove would affect my home owners insurance rates so I called them to find out. She said that the rate would not change but that they were required to come out after the install was complete to take measurements and pictures to verify proper installation. I am glad that I called because if I had a fire due to the stove, it would not have been covered without their inspection and verification on file. Just thought I would share this for anyone else that new to wonderful wood heat.

Exactly why I decided to rip up a bit of my brand new flooring to put in a little tile. Just not worth it to get into an argument with the insurance company in the event of a fire.

 

[sixman]

And don't forget to give them a heads up so that they can get the inspection on file before you fire up for winter. The cause of the fire may not be your stove but without proof of proper installation you may be in a pickle.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

And don't forget to give them a heads up so that they can get the inspection on file before you fire up for winter. The cause of the fire may not be your stove but without proof of proper installation you may be in a pickle.

Dealing with insurance companies.. ain't it grand?



On a side note, I used to sleep with my insurance agent, so it wasn't all bad..lol

actually I still sleep with her, but now she is a software specialist in the insurance industry.

I DO NOT sleep with my current agent. or the little gecko where my motorcycle insurance is.. although..

and I swear this on a stack of super ceders.. at the Louisville outdoors show, Geico had a big display, and I won an inflatable gecko for having the RING-A-DING-DING-DING (from the worst ring tone in the world commercial) ringtone on my phone.. and it's the ring tone assigned to...

my wife.

 

[firefighterjake]

And don't forget to give them a heads up so that they can get the inspection on file before you fire up for winter. The cause of the fire may not be your stove but without proof of proper installation you may be in a pickle.

Dealing with insurance companies.. ain't it grand?



On a side note, I used to sleep with my insurance agent, so it wasn't all bad..lol

actually I still sleep with her, but now she is a software specialist in the insurance industry.

I DO NOT sleep with my current agent. or the little gecko where my motorcycle insurance is.. although..

and I swear this on a stack of super ceders.. at the Louisville outdoors show, Geico had a big display, and I won an inflatable gecko for having the RING-A-DING-DING-DING (from the worst ring tone in the world commercial) ringtone on my phone.. and it's the ring tone assigned to...

my wife.

You're the second person I know that has that extremely annoying Ring-a-ding-ding ring tone.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

It's LOUD.. and I am near deaf.. good combination.

 

[firefighterjake]

As others have said . . . it's 18 inches . . . will 2 inches make that much of a difference . . . honestly . . . probably not . . . but better safe, than sorry . . . or at least better to make the insurance company happy and have a little peace of mind. Personally, if I was going to extend the hearth (and if I had the room) I might extend it out a bit further to give you a place to sit beside the woodstove . . . a place for the cats to comfortably lay . . . but that's just me.

 

[summit]

18 from load door, US standard. period. some install specs show 16". go 18", at least. More is better. You'll thank me the 1st time a knot in the wood sparks off, shooting cinder everywhere, when you open the door.

 

[fbelec]

thats a definite on the more the better. i've had a spark come out of the side loading door and go beyond the hearth. a few times. makes you move quick, and makes you worry about did you get it all. and code is code. if the code were stripes on the edge you have to do it. if not and something happens, hopefully people are safe, and you have the cash to buy a new home. cause the insurance co is not going to pay.
it isn't heat from the stove that will be the problem from a small hearth. do a experiment when you get it up and running. see how hot the floor is 18 inches in front of your stove. won't be even close to being hot enough to fire. the funny thing is, if you were to draw a line from the stove 45 degrees going up from the bottom of the stove thats where you heat would radiate. i've got a wooden kitchen chair 3 feet from my stove. from the floor up to halfway up the back of the chair is cool. from that point on up it gets warmer the closer i get to the top of the chair. my floor is actually cool from the cool air being drawn to the stove.

just my experience with my stove and dealing with inspectors and insurance companys.

 

[madison]

So the fact that my hearth is raised does not make a difference? I still need the 18" of depth you think?

Answered above, but to add to summit's comments, in the raised hearth situation and a knot explosion or bark fizz/"sparkler show" the raised hearth helps distribute the burning bits even further into your room.

Bottom line, extend the hearth as far as possible AND/OR protect the carpet in front of the hearth. Nol matter how careful you are, the carpet will get damaged.

 

[cos_man99]

Thanks for all your input. We will put at least 12" tiles on the floor in front of the hearth (which will extend us out more than two feet from the front of the stove. I removed an older Lopi insert from that same firebox and while I was burning in it I did have some embers shoot out. We have old carpet in that room now and it does have a collection of burns in it from the little time the doors were open. I can't imagine burning in an open firebox. It would scare me to death.

 

[Bobbin]

I always like reading threads like this; I'm big on safety. Probably a bit of a nervous Nellie, but feel it's always best to err on the side of caution. ("Safen up!" says Homer Simpson)

The husband doesn't have a very good "eye" when it comes to eye-balling the cut length of wood rounds ready for the splitter. His definition of 16" and mine are requently about 2" apart... so is the difference between 6-8" and 10"... . So, at some point every winter I try to jam a too long split into the stove and can't quite make it fit even with some jockeying. I have to haul the damned thing out and deal with it... (whipped one out the window into a snowbank last winter) and that's where the "landing" pad in front of the door comes in mighty handy. And whenever it happens to me I'm always really glad that there is a place to put the hot split that doesn't create a potential hazard. I don't have carpet to deal with, but concur that a fire retardant mat to protect any carpet is a very wise idea, too!

Don't "cheap out" on the clearances. They're there for your safety!