HELP with Fire Chief - Englander Stove

[skydmark1]

Hello everyone!

So I need some HELP! I was having some problems with my stove and actually still am, where it burns down then fires back up. This is causing some sooty smoke and leaving my white vinyl siding looking pretty dirty. Well, I had a neighbor call the fire chief on me today because they think the whole neighborhood is going to burn down. Now they want to send somebody to inspect my entire system.

I need all the "firepower" no pun intended that I can get. I live in New Hampshire (that might be pertinent info) and have had my stove installed for 4 years. It's the englander 55-SHP10, I have it installed with the Simpson Duravent 3" vent kit. The install is comprised of the appliance adapter, a 45 degree elbow, then out the wall through the thimble to the cleanout T then up 3 feet with a 90 and the horizontal cap.

I also have the cold air intake hooked up with a run of less than 2' The stove sits on one of those black hearth pads with 6" in front and 4" on either side of extra floor protection. The room the stove is in has a smoke detector and a carbon monoxide detector.

Is there anything I should know about, or do before this guy comes to inspect everything. I'm heating my house 100% with my stove this year and if they shut me down for something my kids are gonna be cold.

My only real concern is that there is a small crack in the firebox, it's not structural and does not cause any smoke spillage. I had Mike H. take a look at the picture here on the forum to verify. I plan to weld it in the spring but I'm afraid that somebody that doesn't know what they are looking at will give me an ear full about it.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated here

 

[BIGISLANDHIKERS]

There's something wrong if its smoking so much that your neighbor called. Only time it should smoke that much is during startup. The inspector will find anything that could be dangerous to your family. If he's a good guy he will be there to help out and make it safe.

Good luck!
BIH

 

[GrahamInVa]

I'd power wash the stuff off and clean your stove real good before he comes. :grrr:

 

[skydmark1]

There's something wrong if its smoking so much that your neighbor called. Only time it should smoke that much is during startup. The inspector will find anything that could be dangerous to your family. If he's a good guy he will be there to help out and make it safe.

Good luck!
BIH

Essentially it is "starting up" more than it should be...like I said it burns down to embers only then restarts when new pellets hit the hot embers, thus creating the problem I'm having. However, I see no safety concern with this....it's just dirty and irritating.

 

[richkorn]

There's something wrong if its smoking so much that your neighbor called. Only time it should smoke that much is during startup. The inspector will find anything that could be dangerous to your family. If he's a good guy he will be there to help out and make it safe.

Good luck!
BIH

Essentially it is "starting up" more than it should be...like I said it burns down to embers only then restarts when new pellets hit the hot embers, thus creating the problem I'm having. However, I see no safety concern with this....it's just dirty and irritating.

I'd have the original Building Permit and Building Inspectors inspection signature in hand when they come.

 

[Charlie500e]

There's something wrong if its smoking so much that your neighbor called. Only time it should smoke that much is during startup. The inspector will find anything that could be dangerous to your family. If he's a good guy he will be there to help out and make it safe.

Good luck!
BIH

Essentially it is "starting up" more than it should be...like I said it burns down to embers only then restarts when new pellets hit the hot embers, thus creating the problem I'm having. However, I see no safety concern with this....it's just dirty and irritating.

I'd have the original Building Permit and Building Inspectors inspection signature in hand when they come.

He didn't mention that the stove was included on original permit/inspection.

Have the manual showing the specs for that stove.

 

[BIGISLANDHIKERS]

There's something wrong if its smoking so much that your neighbor called. Only time it should smoke that much is during startup. The inspector will find anything that could be dangerous to your family. If he's a good guy he will be there to help out and make it safe.

Good luck!
BIH

Essentially it is "starting up" more than it should be...like I said it burns down to embers only then restarts when new pellets hit the hot embers, thus creating the problem I'm having. However, I see no safety concern with this....it's just dirty and irritating.

I'd have the original Building Permit and Building Inspectors inspection signature in hand when they come.

He didn't mention that the stove was included on original permit/inspection.

Have the manual showing the specs for that stove.

If the stove was inspected after install I would have that paperwork handy.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Have what have you done to isolate and fix the issue you have ready for the chief.

The chief is going to look at what and how you are trying to rectify the smoke issue as well as if you installed the stove by the book.

He will either tell you to discontinue using the stove until it is fixed or tell you to continue your actions to fix the stove.

If you didn't follow the book he is apt to throw his book at you or at the very least go up one side and down the other side about being lax in your fire keeping and the consequences of same.

If you are getting uneven feed then you have:

1: Stalling auger motor. Replace the motor.
2: Loose coupling between the motor and the auger. Tighten the coupling.
3: Misaligned augur. Align the auger.
4: Bridged pellets somewhere. Check and clear the auger path and check lengths of the pellets if too many are out of spec change pellets or break them up.
5: Bad control board check the timing and contact England Stove Works.
6: Too much air or too little feed. Adjust one or the other after talking with England.

Wash the mess off your siding.

 

[checkthisout]

Is it doing this on the lower setting?

That crack in your firebox, it may not be letting smoke out but is it letting air in? If it is then this is definitely contributing to your problem. A bit of smoke on low after pellets drop in is ok but it shouldn't be stink'n up the hood.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Mike has already seen the crack and it is on the inside and does not penetrate the firebox.

Continuing on the list:

7: Bad gaskets, test and replace as needed. (allows the vacuum switch to turn off the auger for short periods).
8: Bad door latch, bad hopper latch, (see above comment).
9: Marginal vacuum switch (not likely but possible).
10: Still blockage in the combustion air path (yes, I hear you).
11: Bad or failing combustion blower (time to check voltages from the controller while you are at it).
12: Bad controller (combustion blower side, see above comment).
13: Bad hooper switch or its mount is floating (stops pellet feed).

There are just a few things, you can actually jumper the vacuum switch to rule out a lot of them in one fell swoop, just do not run with it jumpered nor should any of the safeties be jumpered when the chief shows up.

 

[imacman]

The question I have is why does it almost run out of burning pellets before it gets a new bunch. Sounds like air path may be blocked, and vacuum switch is starting & starting the auger. When was the last time a complete deep cleaning was done?

Just to see, jump the vacuum switch and see if the auger runs more consistently.

 

[skydmark1]

thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.....I have one hunch as to why the pellets are acting the way they do. I switched one of my auger motors out for one by Gleason Avery and I believe it turns a bit faster RPM then the stock MK auger motor. I have this motor on the top and I wonder if it's pushing too many pellets at once which get burned off before the next ones show up. I'm going to try switching the top and bottom motors and see if that helps.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.....I have one hunch as to why the pellets are acting the way they do. I switched one of my auger motors out for one by Gleason Avery and I believe it turns a bit faster RPM then the stock MK auger motor. I have this motor on the top and I wonder if it's pushing too many pellets at once which get burned off before the next ones show up. I'm going to try switching the top and bottom motors and see if that helps.

If the faster motor is on the top then the fire will not go out for lack of fuel. It will have more pellets than needed.

But go for it.

 

[skydmark1]

thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.....I have one hunch as to why the pellets are acting the way they do. I switched one of my auger motors out for one by Gleason Avery and I believe it turns a bit faster RPM then the stock MK auger motor. I have this motor on the top and I wonder if it's pushing too many pellets at once which get burned off before the next ones show up. I'm going to try switching the top and bottom motors and see if that helps.

If the faster motor is on the top then the fire will not go out for lack of fuel. It will have more pellets than needed.

But go for it.

I don't know about that, because it almost seems like it's pushing plenty of fuel to the burn pot but the interval in between is too long. So if the top auger is rushing the group of pellets perhaps it's too long till the next group. I turned my LFF up to 7 from the factor setting of 6 and that did help a tad so I'm hoping maybe this will help. I dunno, worth a shot I figure!

 

[skydmark1]

So I switched the auger motors but also noticed a cracked vacuum tube. Now the crack was at the end of the tube so not sure if it was affecting the stove's performance or not, but I cut the dried out end off and reinstalled the vacuum tube, then switched the auger motors. Seems to be running better now but I'll have to keep a close eye on it and see! Hopefully took care of it

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

So I switched the auger motors but also noticed a cracked vacuum tube. Now the crack was at the end of the tube so not sure if it was affecting the stove's performance or not, but I cut the dried out end off and reinstalled the vacuum tube, then switched the auger motors. Seems to be running better now but I'll have to keep a close eye on it and see! Hopefully took care of it

Anything that affects the vacuum sensor is going to affect the pellet feed the top auger is connected to the vacuum switch if there isn't enough vacuum the switch opens cutting power to the auger, if the vacuum reestablishes the switch closes thus allowing the auger to start running provided its timed run cycle is still on.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

The motors should both be 1 RPM motors. What are the specs of the Gleason Avery Motor?

See pics of motors below

 

[fidiro]

Add to the list from above posts: Install detectors(smoke/carbon) if you don't have them already, close to where stove is located. Make sure they are working.

 

[TLHinCanada]

I might be wrong if so correct me, wasn't this post the one with the cracked back plate and warped angle. If it is put the settings back to factory and explain to the fire chief that you were experimenting with the air fuel mixture and (I think you were trying to cut down on pellet consumption) it created some soot. Get the power washer out and a brush. Good luck.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

ok, here's the poop.

i did see the crack, its not pretty but its definately not going to cause a fire or anything like that , the crack is on the back of the firewall and even if it breaks all the way open its still inside the combustion /exhaust pathway completely. it does need to get repaired befoe it gets too screwed up to fix but its not the cause of the smoking sooting on the siding. this happened while the crack was being caused. the crack was caused by excessive heat concentration likely from too long an interval between heat exchanger (baffles out) cleaning. the ash buildup choked down the air pathway and concentrated its heat in a small area which caused warpage and literally a tear to be created in the steel itself.

as for the uneven feed rates , this is also somthing which may very well have resulted from this buildup of ash. ashloading can cause heat to be concentrated in certain areas and can cause stuff like this to start happening, cooked vac hoses which lead to errors (E-1 mostly) but if the hose for the "door ajar" switch gets cooked and starts leaking the result is an up and down fire with the switch dropping when a certain air density is reached (along with a leaky hose) which stops feed, as the fire dies the air density picks back up, pulls the switch and restarts feeding, now with a large gap in feeding the fire drops to coals which the fresh fuel has to light off of, this causes a boatload of smoke as its doing this several times an hour each time making this smoke which plugs up the stove with soot and messes up the siding and all that jazz.

remember folks With a pellet stove , AIR IS EVERYTHING stoves are designed for best performance when airflow is as its intended to be by the maker. infrequent cleanings alter this airflow and can cause this kind of mischief, even after the stove is fully cleaned out like the OP's unit was after discovering the crack, vac hoses split and leak, gaskets get burnt up, warpage occurs. next post i'll talk about the fix

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the fix;

first , look at the things which will interrupt feed, door switch if equipped (this stove has one) lid switch (this stove doesnt but newer ones do, overtemp limit (all have it), possible weak motor (unlikely)

check the hose that connects to the back of the firebox next to the igniter, if its cracked , cut it back to where its supple again (if its too short replace it with 600F rated silicone hose)

next, check and clean out the room fan, this fan if its plugged up (and trust me they will plug up) isnt capable of moving sufficient air through the heat exchanger convection areas to keep the stove at its normal internal temperature (resulting in a soft trip of the high limit. this will stop the top auger until the temp drops below this limit. its good to pull and clean this fan annually anyway as part they seriously will plug up eventually if left along too long.

if neither of these will correct the issue my best guess is the door switch itself is faulty (usually a torn diaphragm) and would need replaced i can test for that but i'd need to walk you through it.


one of the above reasons is causing this stove to interrupt feed. nothing much else will cause this

 

[kykel]

I guess you wont be sending your neighbor a christmas card. good luck with the fix

 

[ghandy131]

Had our 10-CPM installed last month and as I recall, the manual called for 6" floor protection on the sides. You may want to check your manual.

 

[richkorn]

He didn't mention that the stove was included on original permit/inspection.

Have the manual showing the specs for that stove.

Oh yeah, I meant the permit that you are supposed to pull (at least in my state) for any home upgrade to the house. My building inspector came out and inspected mine after install and signed a form that I have on file.

 

[nate379]

Can't say I blame your neighbors either if you are smoking out the whole place!

I might make a bit of smoke when I have a fresh load of wood just put in the stove, but generally speaking no one can tell my stove is going. This summer one of my neighbors even asked why I was hauling firewood wood to the house!