Help with homeowner install liner

[Phish79]

What a mess of a day. 6" smooth wall 316ti Chimney liner kit was delivered last week. But apparently didn't come with the insulation kit. Well we found the liner insulation in Richmond IN today to meet UL,code and insurance requirements for interior brick chimney. We bought it and now Im finding myself in a worse mess. A mutual "contractor friend" was trying to help me but miss measured the flue and with the insulation on the liner we cant get it into the chimney with the 4' of 8x12 clay tile. Its 1/2-3/4" to big to fit the clay liner.The rest of it is brick all the way down. Contractor seems to be convinced by his mason friend we need to tear the chimney down to the roof and rebuild it with brick for $4000 (no fing way ) Now we have $1500 in materials on the roof and are stuck. All because my wife tried to do something nice and pay for this for my birthday..

Any assistance in what to do is greatly appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the 4' of clay liner needs to be busted out. That shouldn't take too long. The spike chimney crown however creates another problem. Hard to top cap that without some modification.

Before dropping a liner down there the chimney needs a good cleaning.

 

[MAD MARK]

Yea that chimney needs cleaned before liner x2.

And boy is that an interesting top half.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm no expert but I would tear off that stone anyway; I wouldn't have faith in it to keep water out with all those irregular concrete seams.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

What a mess of a day. 6" smooth wall 316ti Chimney liner kit was delivered last week. But apparently didn't come with the insulation kit. Well we found the liner insulation in Richmond IN today to meet UL,code and insurance requirements for interior brick chimney. We bought it and now Im finding myself in a worse mess. A mutual "contractor friend" was trying to help me but miss measured the flue and with the insulation on the liner we cant get it into the chimney with the 4' of 8x12 clay tile. Its 1/2-3/4" to big to fit the clay liner.The rest of it is brick all the way down. Contractor seems to be convinced by his mason friend we need to tear the chimney down to the roof and rebuild it with brick for $4000 (no fing way ) Now we have $1500 in materials on the roof and are stuck. All because my wife tried to do something nice and pay for this for my birthday..

Any assistance in what to do is greatly appreciated.

Tough day, I had a similar experience, but was able fight through it.

I think I'd bust off the top layer of vertical spikes, as well as the clay tiles that are keeping you out. Then, lay down a mortar bed to level it, and several rows of bricks, to your desired height. It'll look cool, you'll be able to get your new liner in, and you'll have a nice flat surface where you can mount your new stainless steel top plate.

If you are not comfortable doing it, you should be able to find a mason to do it for way less than $4k, which is way too much. Just be specific with them as to how far you want to take it down.

 

[Phish79]

Thank you all who've replied for your kind and helpful thoughts. This wood furnace and chimney liner has been a thorn in my side for some time. I bought this 1927 craftsman house on 6 acres (Tons of ash) and the previous had been burning/heating for over 15 years with this unlined brick chimney! As a first time home buyer i learned the hard way that inspections didn't include a chimney and so i missed it. Had it "swept" and inspected the following year and the shady company informed me that it was unsafe and needed a liner. They would install for $3800 that day. I passed and within 4 hours he said hed do it cash for $1800. Did some digging and found he was a scammer who did that then charges for unseen costs at ridiculous cost or puts a lien on you. So waited a couple of years to this point of my wife trying to help have dual fuel heating for our home for us with a 7mo old baby. Got another local "respected" companys verbal quote off the cuff was $4200(still never got a written estimate)! And he tried to claim I need to buy a newer high efficiency pellet furnace on top of it... I pointed to 4-5 cord of split ash and 4 standing ash waiting to be dropped. Thus leaving me where I am at this point.. Anyone honest in the ohio area who could would be willing to help with breaking the clay flue and dropping the liner? I can pay a reasonable cost for that work and I'll do all the rest of the connections in the basement.

Thank you and have a safe healthy Thanksgiving.

 

[Boxer]

If I were in your shoes I would start calling or visiting every stove shop I could find that does installation.

I feel the “contractors” are probably more focused on building you a new chimney top. The guys that do liners and stoves every day have probably seen much worse and would be more likely to take on this job. Around here building contractors are so busy, they just price jobs like this super high instead of turning the job down so they know you won’t call them back.

The other problem I can see you having is a reputable company is probably going to be hesitant to use your liner. I’m sure they have confidence in their own product and I can understand that. They will also need to take into account clearance issues and the condition of your old stove. They have a lot of risk involved with liability issues.

Good Luck and Happy Thanksgiving !!

 

[VirginiaIron]

When I did my research I seem to remember some manufacturers did and did not permitt a slight compression of the vent pipe in order to pass the damper area.*** Call the manufacturer and verify if you can make the pipe oval by the dimensions needed. If permitted, get an email confirmation that it is allowed***.

If not, purchase an oval or rectangle liner and insulation kit and it will still be cheaper than $4k. Then sell the other liner on Craigslist or donate it to Habitat for Humanity, or some needy person.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

When I did my research I seem to remember some manufacturers did and did not permitt a slight compression of the vent pipe in order to pass the damper area.*** Call the manufacturer and verify if you can make the pipe oval by the dimensions needed. If permitted, get an email confirmation that it is allowed***.

If not, purchase an oval or rectangle liner and insulation kit and it will still be cheaper than $4k. Then sell the other liner on Craigslist or donate it to Habitat for Humanity, or some needy person.

The compression thing, I was going to try it, but I'm glad I didn't. Would have made it impossible to connect the liner to the appliance connector. And, based upon how liners are made, it can't be good for it. SMOOSH!

 

[ChrisE]

Thank you all who've replied for your kind and helpful thoughts. This wood furnace and chimney liner has been a thorn in my side for some time. I bought this 1927 craftsman house on 6 acres (Tons of ash) and the previous had been burning/heating for over 15 years with this unlined brick chimney! As a first time home buyer i learned the hard way that inspections didn't include a chimney and so i missed it. Had it "swept" and inspected the following year and the shady company informed me that it was unsafe and needed a liner. They would install for $3800 that day. I passed and within 4 hours he said hed do it cash for $1800. Did some digging and found he was a scammer who did that then charges for unseen costs at ridiculous cost or puts a lien on you. So waited a couple of years to this point of my wife trying to help have dual fuel heating for our home for us with a 7mo old baby. Got another local "respected" companys verbal quote off the cuff was $4200(still never got a written estimate)! And he tried to claim I need to buy a newer high efficiency pellet furnace on top of it... I pointed to 4-5 cord of split ash and 4 standing ash waiting to be dropped. Thus leaving me where I am at this point.. Anyone honest in the ohio area who could would be willing to help with breaking the clay flue and dropping the liner? I can pay a reasonable cost for that work and I'll do all the rest of the connections in the basement.

Thank you and have a safe healthy Thanksgiving.

Not sure what part of OH your in but Tim Duncan w/ Tate bld supply is a straight shooter w/ 51 yrs in the Business. There out of Erlanger.

 

[bholler]

Ok looking at the construction above the roof it is very unlikely you will be able to break the liners out of that structure.
That leaves you with
1 rebuilding the top.
2. Trying to cut and chisel the clay out ( which may lead to #1 anyway)
3. Ovalizing the liner which isnt possible if your liner is the 2 ply smooth wall stuff.

And yes your chimney needs cleaned really badly before lining.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

How far down does the clay liner go? Hard to tell from the one picture. If only one, perhaps only the top would need rebuilt, not all the way to the roof.?

 

[Phish79]

There are 2 sections of clay liners that go down a total of 4' from the top. Even if some of the stone work deteriorates breaking out the tile its worth motaring it back together vs tearing it down. This homes whole front and ornamental chimney is field stone.

Amazing that i paid $250 to the first shady chimney service for a cleaning and inspection 4 years ago isnt it. And heres what it looked like after their service. The photo posted above everyone is commenting about is after we ran an brush through it yesterday...

 

[bholler]

There are 2 sections of clay liners that go down a total of 4' from the top. Even if some of the stone work deteriorates breaking out the tile its worth motaring it back together vs tearing it down. This homes whole front and ornamental chimney is field stone.

Amazing that i paid $250 to the first shady chimney service for a cleaning and inspection 4 years ago isnt it. And heres what it looked like after their service. The photo posted above everyone is commenting about is after we ran an brush through it yesterday...

The problem is with an unlined chimney you cannot clean it aggressively at all unless you are going to be putting a liner in it. If you do you will end up removing allot of the mortar making it even more dangerous.

The previous contractor may have been a hack but it simply would not be able to clean your chimney very well without damaging it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

There are 2 sections of clay liners that go down a total of 4' from the top. Even if some of the stone work deteriorates breaking out the tile its worth motaring it back together vs tearing it down. This homes whole front and ornamental chimney is field stone.

Amazing that i paid $250 to the first shady chimney service for a cleaning and inspection 4 years ago isnt it. And heres what it looked like after their service. The photo posted above everyone is commenting about is after we ran an brush through it yesterday...

Beautiful place.

Assuming you can fit the liner, with insulation, in, once those clay tiles are gone, I'd be busting them out. I still like my idea of topping it with bricks once you take it out. Much less skill involved laying bricks, than resetting those irregular stones, should they come lose when removing the tiles. It would be cheaper, and if you find the right bricks and mortar, only add character to a place already overflowing with character.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

There are 2 sections of clay liners that go down a total of 4' from the top. Even if some of the stone work deteriorates breaking out the tile its worth motaring it back together vs tearing it down. This homes whole front and ornamental chimney is field stone.

Amazing that i paid $250 to the first shady chimney service for a cleaning and inspection 4 years ago isnt it. And heres what it looked like after their service. The photo posted above everyone is commenting about is after we ran an brush through it yesterday...

What's up with the fireplace? Looks like an old school stereo and a couple of candles? I can't tell what is going on with the actual fireplace. Maybe we should be discussing that as well? I also noticed two of those fancy chimneys in the exterior picture.

 

[Phish79]

Beautiful place.

Assuming you can fit the liner, with insulation, in, once those clay tiles are gone, I'd be busting them out. I still like my idea of topping it with bricks once you take it out. Much less skill involved laying bricks, than resetting those irregular stones, should they come lose when removing the tiles. It would be cheaper, and if you find the right bricks and mortar, only add character to a place already overflowing with character.

Thank you Ed for your kind words of compliment. As an architect it was my dream when I found an arts& crafts craftsman bungalow on acreage in the country. Unfortunately along with that dream Ive found alot of cut corner repairs and with an infant a limited budget to remedy them..

I think you have a decent idea of a course of motared in brick to set the top cap in and wouldn't be visible or detract from the character of the house.

We're fortunate enough with the character of the house that we're even able to have Santa visit! (For my wifes photography business )

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Phish79]

What's up with the fireplace? Looks like an old school stereo and a couple of candles? I can't tell what is going on with the actual fireplace. Maybe we should be discussing that as well? I also noticed two of those fancy chimneys in the exterior picture.

Lol gotta zoom in a little closer! The wood furnace is the one im trying to line and is in the center of the roof. The ornamental fire place (living room) is a narrow coal burner with a straight chimney and no damper just a smoke shelf. Its the tall one on the exterior. Ive blocked it off with an insulation plug and cap it has an electric woodstove space heater and candles in front of it with a fire screen. I wish i had the funds to do them both...

Better picture of it with just the metal coal fireplace panel &screen in front of it.

 

[moresnow]

Chimney problems aside guys. Do you see that garage Impressive!

 

[Phish79]

Chimney problems aside guys. Do you see that garage Impressive!

Lol..Thank you. That was the another major reason for buying it. 36x50 total with a 6' covered porch. Great place for a cold beer and ceegar after long day of whatever!

 

[moresnow]

36x50 total with a 6' covered porch. Great place for a cold beer and ceegar after long day of whatever!

Saaweeet! Any chance you can grind down in 2 corners and remove one side of the clay tiles? If you only need a little room. Might work. Cant hurt to try?

 

[bholler]

Saaweeet! Any chance you can grind down in 2 corners and remove one side of the clay tiles? If you only need a little room. Might work. Cant hurt to try?

Yes that is what i was talking about when i said cut and chisel the clay out. It may work