HELP WITH PELLET BASEMENT INSTALLATION

[mattydread]

I am new to this forum and also new to the pellet stove world. I recently bought an englander pellet stove to install in my finished basement. I would pipe out of the basement well window, unfortunately there is a window directly above the basment window. My question is can I put a 90 degree elbow after going through the window opening and then run pipe horizontally to the corner of the house? I posted a couple of pictures to illustrate what my intention is. I would greatly appreciate any help/advice. Thanks!

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

you need to check the venting graphs in the manual, but that should work. You will have to clean the pipe regulary, and you should convert to 4 inch pipe to reduce backpressure on the combustion blower.
Ryan

 

[stovemanken]

Please bear in mind that ALL pellet stoves have a limit of 4' of horizontal pipe in the install. IMHO, the less horizonal, the better the performance. Horizontal pipe will need more regular cleaning, therefore you may want to design more clean out "Ts" into the application. Be extra cautious to asssure that the pipe slopes at least a little upward; even a slight dip will adversely effect performance.

SMK

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Where do you get the information that ALL pellet stoves have a limit of 4'? i have looked through severl manuals and i cant find that anywhere. Here is the manual for the castile. It just states that you have to go to 4 inch with so many feet of pipe.
(broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/downloads/installManuals/man_castile.pdf)

 

[stovemanken]

I am willing to be corrected. Trying to prove a negative, or in this case, an all-inclusive positive, is a logical impossibility; one would have to know everything.

Our friends in Canada do specify the following: "Underwriter's Laboratory Canda (ULC) specifies that pellet venting installation instructions shall include " ...a warning for horizontal venting that the vent length shall not exceed 1200 mm." (1200 mm is aproximately 4 feet.)

This is taken from page 93 of The National Fireplace Institute's (Hearth Education Foundation) Pellet Hearth Systems Reference Manual copywrite 2003 and is the manual used for passing the NFI Certification for Pellet Stoves. (I believe it has been revised or is about to be.)

Canadien standards are generally more rigourus than US, because they assume that the heating requirements and use will be greater. Many manufacturers who sell in both countries specifiy the Canadien requirements for simplicity's sake.

I am actually quite surprised that Quadrafire doesn't specify a maximum 4' horizontal run. Many pellet stove dealers can share "nightmare" installations where the customer insisted that long horizonal runs be made under a deck, for example, and the stove performed very poorly.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge os US codes can add something to this.

As always, one must defer to the installation manual provided with a particular stove for the "last word." I am still surprised that there is no listing for maximum horizontal piple length in the manual you cited.

SMK

 

[carpniels]

HI Matty,

Is ELK around? He will probably have a lot to say about that install.

I thought you always needed to be above the highest point of the house. Or is that only with a wood stove? I don't know all the details, but please get all the info you need before you install. Tearing it out later is expensive.

Good Luck

Carpniels

 

[HarryBack]

HI Matty,

Is ELK around? He will probably have a lot to say about that install.

I thought you always needed to be above the highest point of the house. Or is that only with a wood stove? I don't know all the details, but please get all the info you need before you install. Tearing it out later is expensive.

Good Luck

Carpniels

No, its only with coal/wood, Carp. Pellets are different. Im assuming the window in question will have a thimble installed, and be made nonoperable?

 

[mattydread]

That only applies for wood stoves. I've read that for every elbow you use you should add 3' of vertical pipe. I'm just trying to figure out a way to channel the pipe away from the windows. Maybe I will have to go around that corner and add enough vertical to pass the roof line on that side. There are no roof overhangs on the sides of my house so I guess that's possible, but then I'm wondering if that's using too much pipe distance. Thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming!

 

[Shane]

Why not just offset it w/ 45's then go through your eve. Less restriction and your not horizontally terminating you'll get natural draft in case of power outage etc.

 

[hearthtools]

Why not just offset it w/ 45's then go through your eve. Less restriction and your not horizontally terminating you'll get natural draft in case of power outage etc.

I would put a T and go up then off set with 45 to miss the window
A lot like this install. up and over then up

and this was the before
DIRECT VENT BAD

 

[mattydread]

HI Matty,

Is ELK around? He will probably have a lot to say about that install.

I thought you always needed to be above the highest point of the house. Or is that only with a wood stove? I don't know all the details, but please get all the info you need before you install. Tearing it out later is expensive.

Good Luck

Carpniels

No, its only with coal/wood, Carp. Pellets are different. Im assuming the window in question will have a thimble installed, and be made nonoperable?

yes, the window will be blocked off and a thimble will be installed. I think the offset with the 45 elbow seems like a good idea and going up through the overhang of the roof. Will I need to start with 3" pipe and then 4" once I reach a certain height?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

you should buy a 3-4 T.Simpson part #3166. The minute you start going verticle you can use that T and go to 4 inch with out any more adapters. You should definalty go to 4 inch. Remeber you want as little restriction as possible, expecially with your venting config.
Ryan

 

[begreen]

I am new to this forum and also new to the pellet stove world. I recently bought an englander pellet stove to install in my finished basement. I would pipe out of the basement well window, unfortunately there is a window directly above the basment window. My question is can I put a 90 degree elbow after going through the window opening and then run pipe horizontally to the corner of the house? I posted a couple of pictures to illustrate what my intention is. I would greatly appreciate any help/advice. Thanks!

I don't like venting the stove out alongside the porch stairway. The pipe is too hot and it will be visually unattractive. Maybe worth considering going up, then doing the sideways 90 on the interior and exiting out the side wall (the one that has the fencing lying against it), as a way of avoiding the horiz. exterior run.

Or consider moving the stove to the left, closer to the other window, put the stove at a 45 deg angle in the corner and run the exhaust out the other window?

 

[hearthtools]

you should buy a 3-4 T.Simpson part #3166. The minute you start going verticle you can use that T and go to 4 inch with out any more adapters. You should definalty go to 4 inch. Remeber you want as little restriction as possible, expecially with your venting config.
Ryan

The photo linked in my above post is using a 3166 3-4 T

We always run 4" if over 15 feet of pipe includeding inserts.

 

[mattydread]

I don't like venting the stove out alongside the porch stairway. The pipe is too hot and it will be visually unattractive. Maybe worth considering going up, then doing the sideways 90 on the interior and exiting out the side wall (the one that has the fencing lying against it), as a way of avoiding the horiz. exterior run.

Or consider moving the stove to the left, closer to the other window, put the stove at a 45 deg angle in the corner and run the exhaust out the other window?

Thanks Begreen, but the problem with going out the windows on that side of the house is that I will lose the window that brings in the most natural light into my basement. This is why I'm trying to figure out a way to go out the window in the back. It's a back porch and the stairway and path to the door are about 30" away from that side of the house where the pipe would be running. I understand that the pipe will get hot but I think it's out of the way enough that people won't come in contact with it. There also will be minimal foot traffic out there during the cold months when the stove is operating.

 

[begreen]

I still don't like running along a stairway, though I appreciate that you are trying to keep light coming in. This sounds like you are trying to save a few dollars by running through a window. I wouldn't advise that in this situation. What's wrong with running directly through the wall through a proper thimble? If this is a permanent installation, springing for a little more money to do the job right will extend your pleasure proportionately. And you won't be blocking the light from any windows.

 

[mattydread]

It's a basement install and the walls are concrete. It will be a permanent install. The window by the stairs I am planning to go out of doesn't let in a whole lot of sunlight as it is so I'm not too worried about losing it.

 

[Shane]

So long as it is done in a permanent fashion (framed in etc.) then going through the window is no better or worse than core drilling the foundation. I certainly wouldn't terminate horizontally. I would install it exactly like Hearthtools suggested. It looks like that walkway is atleast 18" from the pipe anyway.

 

[hearthtools]

any photos of your final install?

 

[elkimmeg]

there are a slew of code concerns and Begreen mentioned one there is code governing 4" proximity toa window there are codes governing distances to exit walk ways7'
there are codes concerning hot pipe being accesable to burns from touching


The basement location kicks in the required 3" outside air necessity There is a 4' horizontal limitation and verticle height addition for 90 degree bends min 3' above the
ground and higher in the smow belt for drifting. There is a clearance to combustiables with the pellet vent pipe 3" it has to be hung by brackets 3" from your siding.
Basement location also kicks in the need for a tee.

Observations from your photos one you need sill and rim joist insulation Tremendeous heat loss without any draft stopping the sill and no rim joist insulation..
Some building your porch stairs needs to learn what a level is that post is so far out of level I had to make a comment.

Here is what I would do go down your local tool rental and rent a hilti Drill I would drill out multi holes threw your foundation and punchout the middle I would get a 5" galvanized pipe and cement it in the hole and pass the pellet vent pipe threw it the remaining space I would seal inside and outside with RTV caulk Extend it vertically the required amount for elbow compensation and above the ground should be high enough by then the window would be where I take the glas s pane out replace it witha galvanized sheet and cut a 3" hole in the middle for you outside air feed and again caulk both sides

 

[GVA]

there are a slew of code concerns and Begreen mentioned one there is code governing 4" proximity toa window there are codes governing distances to exit walk ways7'
there are codes concerning hot pipe being accesable to burns from touching


The basement location kicks in the required 3" outside air necessity There is a 4' horizontal limitation and verticle height addition for 90 degree bends min 3' above the
ground and higher in the smow belt for drifting. There is a clearance to combustiables with the pellet vent pipe 3" it has to be hung by brackets 3" from your siding.
Basement location also kicks in the need for a tee.

Observations from your photos one you need sill and rim joist insulation Tremendeous heat loss without any draft stopping the sill and no rim joist insulation..
Some building your porch stairs needs to learn what a level is that post is so far out of level I had to make a comment.

Here is what I would do go down your local tool rental and rent a hilti Drill I would drill out multi holes threw your foundation and punchout the middle I would get a 5" galvanized pipe and cement it in the hole and pass the pellet vent pipe threw it the remaining space I would seal inside and outside with RTV caulk Extend it vertically the required amount for elbow compensation and above the ground should be high enough by then the window would be where I take the glas s pane out replace it witha galvanized sheet and cut a 3" hole in the middle for you outside air feed and again caulk both sides

ELK this is an old post just brought back based on a newer post. But I will throw something here also. Based on the inside picture there is another window to the left (it's hidden by the fence in the outside photo) I would have just tried to work it out this side instead. And I thought the 7' height requirement was for public areas only.

 

[elkimmeg]

7' height is not the issue. A vent to a fuel burning appliance can't terminate within 7' of a exit walk way and we all know stairs are part of an exit walk way
I did not realize this was an old post thanks for reminding me.