Help: wood stove sizing (Kuma, Jotul, Morso)

[JohnDeer]

I'm a wood stove newbie who found reading this site very helpful. Next week I'd like to add a wood stove to my existing home and have a number of questions for this board. Perhaps there are a few experienced good Samaritans that could help me avoid making mistakes. I need help sizing the wood stove insert for my application, and would appreciate thoughts on models.

Let me set out my situation first. Hopefully thoroughness is a blessing

Built in 1995. 2500 ft2
Wood stove insert into an existing masonry fireplace.
Masonry exterior chimney, clay tile lined, located on the windward side of the house. Has outside air vent into family room where wood stove to be located.
Raised hearth, 18" wide
Fireplace opening at front: 36" wide. 24" tall.
2 story home, general living on main floor plus upstairs bedrooms. Fireplace location is main floor family room. 1200 ft2 on main floor. 1300 ft2 on upper floor. Nine foot ceilings downstairs, vaulted ceilings 9'-12' upstairs. Stove heat will tend to travel out of the living room and progress directly to the substantial vaulted staircase upstairs. Upstairs landing has high ceilings (bad) but all bedroom doors open directly off the landing (good). No long hallways.
Located in rainy western Oregon. Country home.
Average winter temp is 40 degrees. Average coldest winter temp for a week at a time is about 10 degrees. Two weeks of winter snow in a bad year. Some years no snow. Roughly three months of potentially 30-degree weather.
Wood: dry maple and alder.
Area subject to occasional power blackouts. Good location for off grid living.
Primary heating for home is forced air natural gas central heating.
Wood stove is supplemental, except for power blackouts or off the grid scenarios. Might as well think ahead.​

I've included a photo below. The TV monitor location poses a potential complication. Some inserts (my favorite inserts) do not flush mount but protrude from the fireplace opening out onto the hearth. I like this! Better radiant and convective heat distribution, but maybe at the expense of heating up the adjacent TV monitor? Flat panel is separated from the fireplace by a distance of about 22". Your thoughts??? A flush insert won't be a heat problem, but a (preferred) protruding insert...?

I have been strongly considering 3 manufacturers, Kuma, Morso and Jotul.

Would like to purchase immediately to take advantage of large state tax credit expiring by year end. Oregon state tax credit up to $1500 + 300 federal tax credit.

The Kuma "Sequoia" might be my top interest, but it is a little deep. The back slope on the inside of my firebox will only allow about 19" of stove depth. The Kuma Sequoia will project at least 7" onto the hearth. This has the advantage of being able to put a cast iron tea kettle on the stove top to provide humidity. House has a LOT of woodwork so room humidity is a factor. Disadvantage is TV monitor location, plus need to add a brick hearth extension at floor level. An inexperience Kuma salesperson at the local fireplace store think the Sequoia may put out too much heat (3.6 ft3), overwhelming the family room/kitchen area. He recommends sizing down to the smaller Kuma Ashwood 2.1 ft3.

Your thoughts on sizing? Your thoughts on ANYTHING?

Likewise I am considering the Morso 5660 (1.5 ft3) and the Jotul C550 (2.1 ft2). Jotul is the least workable. The surround is too big and ornate for my application.

Am concerned about the small size of the Morso 5660 firebox. Also, the firebox is very shallow, about 11" deep of usable area, where the Kuma is about 17" deep of usable area. Suspect the Morso 5660 will tend to leak more smoke into the family room when loading wood, all things considered.

Please feel free to ask questions or "school" me. Opinions welcome. Sorry for all the details.

Oh, and I'd like to keep the smoke odor in the interior of my house as low as possible. A top priority given that the stove room is adjacent to all the main living areas. It's not a downstairs den, or second TV room arrangement.

Warmly, (ha ha)

John

 

[begreen]

The stove options are diverse, to say the least. I would focus on priorities and broaden your search based on them. First priority is an insert that fits the location - Pri 1. It sounds like you want an insert to heat as well as possible, even when the power fails. Pri 2, It also sounds like you want a big enough stove to heat well and that will be on NW wood. Pri 3. It would also help to narrow down the desired look. The Morso, Kuma and the Jotul inserts are almost opposites in style. Several inserts have different surround options so that you can choose between a classic look or contemporary. Which is most appealing?

Based on these priorities I would eliminate the Morso. It's a handsome insert, but small and flush. The Jotul is handsome, but I would suggest trying to fit a larger unit in if possible. Look at 2.5 to 3.0 cu ft inserts that fit the fireplace and your needs. There is a wide spectrum of choices. In the 2.5 range there are the Hearthstone Clydesdale, Pacific Energy Neo 2.5, Enviro Kodiak 1700 (or Boston), etc.. In the ~3.0 cu ft range there are the Kuma, Pacific Energy Summit, Osburn 2400, etc..

 

[JohnDeer]

I suppose a simple contemporary look would be my preference, but there is the issue of function over form. Contemporary seems to be synonymous with flush mounted, which offers less pure function. Kuma fits the function need better than Moreso. The Jotul surround is simply too ornate for my "busy" fireplace design. I will look closely at the models you suggest and thank you very much for taking the time to read and reply.

In going bigger, such as 3-plus cu ft, do I risk overpowering the family room kitchen/downstairs area? The primary space is perhaps 650-700 sq ft before bleed out to other rooms begins to occur. Can a large firebox handle smaller, more compact fires well in order to keep the heat down, or is there some sense of efficiency lost? Efficiency might not be the right word. In gas engine terms, if most of the time you want to drive 50 mph in a normal fashion you would not select a muscle car big block Chevy engine eveny though on rare occasion you may want to go all out. If this makes sense, not sure if I can have my cake and eat it too.

 

[begreen]

In going bigger, such as 3-plus cu ft, do I risk overpowering the family room kitchen/downstairs area? The primary space is perhaps 650-700 sq ft before bleed out to other rooms begins to occur. Can a large firebox handle smaller, more compact fires well in order to keep the heat down, or is there some sense of efficiency lost?

This is a common question. The operator is largely the one in control of how much heat the insert will put out. Running a full load of good hardwood with a good supply of air is going to put out a lot of heat. If one did this on a mild fall day the odds of overheating the place, unless one likes sauna temps, are high, but on a below freezing day it could be just right. On milder days a better approach would be to burn a lower btu wood and only 3-5 splits at a time. If the house is warm then stop burning. Varying wood species burned also will vary the heat output. There is a big difference in btus between burning poplar, alder and oak, fruitwood, locust.

We have a large stove in the PacNW. When it's 45-50F outside we usually burn a smaller fire in the morning and let it go out. I may also start a small fire in the evening if it's cold and windy outside, but if the day was sunny the house is warmed up by solar radiation and it holds the heat pretty well as long as it's not too cold outside. We have been burning 24/7 with mostly full loads of wood since late October here. With the recent cold weather we have started mixing in locust and madrona with our regular alder/fir mix.

The main advantage our old house has is that the first floor plan is quite open and the stove is centrally located in the house. Every home is unique so your home will be different. Are there doorways between the 1st floor areas or is it open?

 

[bcrtops]

Welcome...............sounds like a neighbor............same climate, coast range living.

@begreen will give you good options to look for & has a massive knowledge base of the wood burners of all types that are available.

 

[JohnDeer]

Thanks, begreen. Very useful.

On the first floor there are doorways between a couple of the rooms but the primary rooms have uninterrupted flow in a "great room" type concept. The flow leads directly to the vaulted entryway and to the second floor. I am in the middle (tonight) of looking over the stove suggestions you made via your first entry. Thanks very much. Really appreciate it.

My lingering concern is whether 20" to 24" of separation between stove and flat panel TV monitor is enough. Won't be a problem with a typical flushed out insert, but I'd really rather have an insert that projects a little out onto the hearth and acts a little more like a freestanding stove. Ideally out enough to get a good-sized tea kettle on top. How close do you think a TV could get to the side of a stove without problems if (say) 8-10" of the insert poked out onto the hearth allowing the radiant energy to blossom out more effectively?

I will be installing a second stove in a good sized pole barn that acts as my shop and will be asking questions in a separate thread. Hope to see your thoughts there also.

 

[begreen]

A mantel will shield the TV somewhat, though it must be at the proper clearance defined by the fireplace mfg. and that will place it higher than my liking for viewing. A non-combustible mantel could be lower. Or figure out another location for the tv.

 

[mcdougy]

A mantel will shield the TV somewhat, though it must be at the proper clearance defined by the fireplace mfg. and that will place it higher than my liking for viewing. A non-combustible mantel could be lower. Or figure out another location for the tv.

I think the poster is wanting to leave his tv where it is.....beside the firebox as in the pic he posted.

 

[JohnDeer]

You are correct in that belief, mcdougy.

Can someone explain the purpose of a catalytic stove versus the alternative, and maybe comment on the advantages/disadvantages.

An insert I am considering, the Kuma Sequoia, is a catalytic model. The Sequoia seems to have most of what I want but I would like to consider alternatives. Liked the appearance of the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, but it's a bit small, and the T6 is only available as a freestanding stove.

 

[mcdougy]

The modern day stoves are focused on better effiecency. This effeciency is gained by less smoke and using less wood essentially. To use less wood they build these modern stoves to burn the smoke in the firebox before it gets up and out your chimney. Burning the smoke/gases gives you more heat from the piece of wood in the stove, and lessens the amount of smoke that exits. A cat stove is a apparatus that burns the smoke/gases inside the firebox. The other style is essentially doing the same just in a different manner. Which one is better is a all day debate. I could be wrong, but in general a believe a good cat stove is going to burn more of the smoke/gasses. The addition of the cat and it replacement cost is what keeps the debate going of which style is better.

 

[JohnDeer]

Got it. Same principle as a car's catalytic converter. Apparently there is more maintenance cost/effort to a catalytic stove. I'll check it out on youtube.com.

 

[weatherguy]

You wouldn't consider mounting the TV high on the brick? Looks like you a wood storage area behind the TV and it'd be nice to have wood right there and would solve the TV issue.

 

[petalumadude]

I'm a wood stove newbie who found reading this site very helpful. Next week I'd like to add a wood stove to my existing home and have a number of questions for this board. Perhaps there are a few experienced good Samaritans that could help me avoid making mistakes. I need help sizing the wood stove insert for my application, and would appreciate thoughts on models.

Just installed the Morso 5660 with blower about 24" from my 65" flat Samsung.
Looks great in the contemporary/modern clean lines.
Problems with the Morso are ash issues, the front lip of the fire box is about 1" high and the seal on the door is 1" below the upper lip.
Any wood movement towards the glass will throw ash over the edge which drops out when the door is opened. Also, the tturbulence when the door lock is released and cracked open to start burning or refuel will blow ash out onto the hearth, floor, or into the air stream where your monitor may attract the ash particles...be sure to have a HEPA filtered vacuum ready at all times.
Went to the stove dealer and they said Morso does not have a work around or solution to this issue, since the 5660 is a design over functional piece.
After having this a couple days, got two 12" x 3" pieces of welding steel to shim between the front lip and bricks in the gap to increase the height ash has to fly to go out.
Would choose another model if ash is an issue.

 

[JohnDeer]

That's a pretty critical piece of information for everyone to consider who is interested in the Morso 5660. Thanks Petalumadude. My education is continuing and several weeks ago decided that a) I need more firebox than the 5660, and b) swallowed hard and decided that function is more important than form.

I was worried about heat too close to the monitor. Is that an issue for you?

 

[begreen]

This issue is not just with the Morso. It happens with many flush fireplaces due to the lack of ash lip.

 

[Highbeam]

Also, the tturbulence when the door lock is released and cracked open to start burning or refuel will blow ash out onto the hearth, floor, or into the air stream where your monitor may attract the ash particles...be sure to have a HEPA filtered vacuum ready at all times.

Yikes. Be sure not to vacuum anything even slightly hot. A spark will lie in your vacuum waiting for many hours to ignite the whole thing.

 

[savenmoney]

You are correct in that belief, mcdougy.
Can someone explain the purpose of a catalytic stove versus the alternative, and maybe comment on the advantages/disadvantages.
An insert I am considering, the Kuma Sequoia, is a catalytic model. The Sequoia seems to have most of what I want but I would like to consider alternatives. Liked the appearance of the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, but it's a bit small, and the T6 is only available as a freestanding stove.

I have the KUMA Sequoia free standing and I would recommend it all day long, love it.

 

[heavy hammer]

If you main concern is heat output, and a lot of it I would recommend the sequoia as well. A great stove very easy to operate.