Hesitating between 2 chimney setups

[Woodenboat]

Hi all,

After much research and a lot of reading on this forum I settled on a PE T5 for our home. Now I need to decide how I will vent it and would appreciate comments on 3 scenarios.

Existing conditions: I have a full masonry chimney with a clay liner and an existing built on site fireplace. The inside dimensions of my clay liner is 11.25" x 6.75". This existing chimney is an exterior chimney. In Canada, the NBC requires a 1/2" clearance between the outside face of my chimney and combustible materials, which I do not have.

Scenario 1: The only system that I have found that will work with my clay liner's inside dimensions is the Duravent rigid ovalized (6" diam equivalent) system. I can feed that system through the existing chimney and it will fit. It is also insulated so I get zero/zero clearance and it solves my existing condition deficiencies. I will then need to break the chimney at approximately 4.5' from the finished floor to fit a snout, and then figure some way to connect a piece of flexible pipe to the bottom of the T, make it go down through the register area and plug that. The rest is a simple 90 elbow with double wall and a connection to the stove from the snout. I am having a hard time getting quotes for this setup but quick research online indicates it will cost an arm and a leg.

On to Scenario 2: from the stove, go up and inside the chimney with double wall, but from there, use a through the wall approach and got through the totality of the chimney. That it, through the brick, then through the clay liner, and then through the brick again and end up outside. This would result in an approximately 24" horizontal run. From there, i can install a prefab insulated (Selkirk) chimney system along the existing masonry chimney and terminate at the top. The good thing about this system is that cleaning the chimney will be easier and i will not need to remove the stove each time the sweep comes. I think it will also take the least amount of time to execute.

Scenario 3: Use a 6" flex liner and ovalize it over the whole length (approximately 10') so my smallest dimension is approximately between 4.5" and 5. Then insulate with 1/2" what for a total section of 5.5" to 6", which should fit. Fitting the snout in the clay liner will be tricky, since I need to insulate it to obtain zero/zero clearance. But I can always break out the clay in that are and gain considerable space.

I should mention that there are not that many installers in my area and that even getting someone to quote on the install is a pain, so I expect to get very high pricing. Other installers I have contacted just said fit a 6" non-insulated liner and call it a day. For these reasons, I am seriously considering doing the install myself.

Based on ease of installation and cost, scenario 2 appears the be the most affordable and easiest to achieve. The only drawback I am seeing is that aesthetically, it will be less discrete. Any other reason not to go with #2 and fall back on scenario 1? Any other option I should consider?

I have attached two images that roughly represent option 1 and 2.
thanks in advance for your help

 

[Tegbert]

Is this an exterior wall chimney? Pictures of what you currently have will help whoever comes to give advice that knows more than me.

If it is an exterior chimney is tearing it down completely and just running the pipe straight up out of the question?


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[Woodenboat]

Is this an exterior wall chimney? Pictures of what you currently have will help whoever comes to give advice that knows more than me.

If it is an exterior chimney is tearing it down completely and just running the pipe straight up out of the question?


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

It is exterior but dismantling it also means rebuilding an exterior wall where it used to be, modifications to my roof and changing the cladding.

Chimney is at the right end of the house.

 

[bholler]

It is exterior but dismantling it also means rebuilding an exterior wall where it used to be, modifications to my roof and changing the cladding.

Chimney is at the right end of the house.

Go straight up through the roof with a prefab chimney. That is the cheapest easiest and best performing option. My next choice would be an ovalized flex liner. Last would be your option number 2 it would look rediculous and the long horisontal run would really hurt performance.

 

[Woodenboat]

Go straight up through the roof with a prefab chimney. That is the cheapest easiest and best performing option. My next choice would be an ovalized flex liner. Last would be your option number 2 it would look rediculous and the long horisontal run would really hurt performance.

I agree draft wise, it is the most effective. But it's not the cheapest option since I have to factor in the cost of the roofer who will need to tie in the flashing to my tar and gravel roof. I would also need the "cathedral kit" and I can see possible condensation scenarios there. not to mention that it would interrupt my vapour barrier with no real way of sealing it to that system.

 

[bholler]

I agree draft wise, it is the most effective. But it's not the cheapest option since I have to factor in the cost of the roofer who will need to tie in the flashing to my tar and gravel roof. I would also need the "cathedral kit" and I can see possible condensation scenarios there. not to mention that it would interrupt my vapour barrier with no real way of sealing it to that system.

A cathedral kit is about 1/4 the price of just the tee. Then subtract the horizontal peice of pipe going through the chimney the verticle peice going from the tee to the ceiling level and all of the support brackets etc. And it is much much cheaper. Yes you may need a roofer if you cant do it but i am positive the savings in materials would pay for that. And why couldt you seal to the vapor barrier? We do it all the time.

 

[begreen]

I agree draft wise, it is the most effective. But it's not the cheapest option since I have to factor in the cost of the roofer who will need to tie in the flashing to my tar and gravel roof. I would also need the "cathedral kit" and I can see possible condensation scenarios there. not to mention that it would interrupt my vapour barrier with no real way of sealing it to that system.

The T5 is less draft fussy than many stoves so you have a bit of leeway for options here. If you chose scenario #1 and lined the existing chimney, why would this be so expensive?

 

[Woody Stover]

Pic shows low slope.
Am I missing something? Can't you just cut the damper out and run a round liner to the top?
EDIT; OK, oval liner..

 

[bholler]

Pic shows low slope.
Am I missing something? Can't you just cut the damper out and run a round liner to the top?

There is not room for a round insulated liner in the chimney so no. And it may not even be going into a fireplace flue at all

 

[chasechimney]

Use a 6" round and Thermix it ...

 

[Woodenboat]

Use a 6" round and Thermix it ...

Thermix will not work. I need 1 inch of it between the ss liner and the clay liner. 6+1+1=8" and my ID is 6.75"

 

[Woodenboat]

The T5 is less draft fussy than many stoves so you have a bit of leeway for options here. If you chose scenario #1 and lined the existing chimney, why would this be so expensive?

Well, I have preliminary pricing for material for scenario 1, which is around 1600$ (canadian).
Scenario 2, i can buy everything at my hardware store (selkirk system) for about 700$ CAD
I have also priced the proposed cathedral ceiling kit install, at about 500$ CAD.

all prices in canadian, for material only. I plan to do most of the labour for previously mentioned reasons.
basically, the duraliner rigid ovalized system is 2x as expensive per linear feet than the selkirk (at least over here).

 

[After Burner]

I had a similar situation as you. I needed to rear vent my PH into an existing clay chimney like you have. I chose the rigid double wall insulated duravent and have been very happy. I get great draft and I installed this myself. As you mention, the downside is the price but it is a very high quality system. This pipe is heavy so be sure to account for that should you decide to tackle the install. Bottom line, I couldn't be happier! I also have a PE T6 and as mentioned above, the PE stoves breath much easier than most.

 

[bcrtops]

The T5 is a great stove -- good choice -- we've been happy with ours these many years.
As to the flue -- my thinking is that you will be the happiest long term, by doing #1 -- look at it as an investment.

 

[maple1]

This is kind of a dumb question, but after I saw mention on here in another thread somewhere I had to ask - if you are really in Montreal, are you even allowed to install a wood stove now?

 

[Woodenboat]

This is kind of a dumb question, but after I saw mention on here in another thread somewhere I had to ask - if you are really in Montreal, are you even allowed to install a wood stove now?

Good question. We are on the south shore so not in montreal exactly. The new regulation applies to the city of montreal only.

 

[maple1]

Ok.

 

[begreen]

Well, I have preliminary pricing for material for scenario 1, which is around 1600$ (canadian).
Scenario 2, i can buy everything at my hardware store (selkirk system) for about 700$ CAD
I have also priced the proposed cathedral ceiling kit install, at about 500$ CAD.

all prices in canadian, for material only. I plan to do most of the labour for previously mentioned reasons.
basically, the duraliner rigid ovalized system is 2x as expensive per linear feet than the selkirk (at least over here).

I'm not really comfortable with scenario 2.
Scenario 2, besides looking like a hack, would permanently compromise the chimney thus affecting the home's resale value. Installing and connecting the elbow to the class A leg and securing it with screws would be hard.
You might want to check prices here and ask for a shipped to Canada quote.
https://woodstovepro.com/

Have you considered any rear vent stoves? The Jotul F45 may be an option if its flue exit height (29.5") is below the fireplace lintel height. If that works the installation would be much simpler, cleaner, less expensive and non-destructive.

 

[Woodenboat]

I'm not really comfortable with scenario 2.
Scenario 2, besides looking like a hack, would permanently compromise the chimney thus affecting the home's resale value. Installing and connecting the elbow to the class A leg and securing it with screws would be hard.
You might want to check prices here and ask for a shipped to Canada quote.
https://woodstovepro.com/

Have you considered any rear vent stoves? The Jotul F45 may be an option if its flue exit height (29.5") is below the fireplace lintel height. If that works the installation would be much simpler, cleaner, less expensive and non-destructive.

Rear venting was originally my intention. But I soon realized that pretty much nothing would fit as my structural steel angle sits at less than 27". Pricing from the shop you mention is similar to the one I used. A bit cheaper, but not by much.

thanks for everyone's input

 

[begreen]

Look at the Hampton H300 with the short leg kit. It's made in Canada by Regency and has a 25.125" rear exit flue height.

 

[Woodenboat]

Look at the Hampton H300 with the short leg kit. It's made in Canada by Regency and has a 25.125" rear exit flue height.

Already have the t5 sitting next to me.

 

[begreen]

Well, there you have it. If possible and practical, I'd be looking at another location for the stove before taking a sledge to the chimney.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Already have the t5 sitting next to me.

Could you remove the clay tiles from inside the chimney to make room for an insulated round liner?

Personally, I like the straight up through the roof idea. If I'd had the space in the room where the stove insert sits, I'd have tried that.