Hey all you PelletHeads... 'splain this to me:

[Mike Wilson]

I did some minor research on the whole pellet thing...specifically Pellets vs. Oil. (Propane burners need not apply) And here's what I can't figure out:

At, say, $220 per ton, 4.40 per bag... why the hell are you burning the stuff?
It just about equals out to $2.00/gal oil, which is what my last 2 fills were priced at. Now, I can see if you get your pellets cheaper, say 180-200/ton, or, if you just like the idea. But from a purely economics standpoint, net net its a wash. Unless you are paying significantly more for oil, or less for pellets, I don't see the draw. I understand pellets used to be significantly cheaper, any ideas on future pricing?
Take a look at the chart below. Its generated from the following link:

Energy Selector Link

BTW, This all came about from me comparing coal to oil, which is a no brainer so long as you are using a stoker, which is the functional equivilant of a pellet stove for coal. Then I looked at pellets, an cringed.

You tell me...

-- Mike

Burning wood... at an average of 40 bucks a cord. (mostly home grown & split)

 

[GeorgeD]

Last year I bought my pellets in March. I bought four tons at $160.00 per ton. The year before it was $150.00 per ton.

 

[elkimmeg]

one also has to factor in the cost of the stove and its install, Plus maintenance

 

[Eric Johnson]

Is it fair to compare the efficiency of each appliance? If you've got an old, inefficient oil burner and a new pellet stove, would it make that much difference? Let's say your oil furnace/boiler heats the whole house, but you want to keep your living room at 75 and the rest of the house at 65. Then you put the pellet stove in the living room and turn down the oil burner. Would that make more sense?

I've always understood that pellets are about the same price, measuring btus per gallon/ton as fuel oil. People buy them for the ambiance, not to save money, but I think there are probably situations where one clearly makes more sense than the other.

In the final analysis, I think it's unrealistic to expect any commercial fuel source not to shadow the price of oil. The only fuel most people have any real control over is chunk wood, and that's only if you cut it yourself.

 

[webbie]

I've always understood that pellets are about the same price, measuring btus per gallon/ton as fuel oil. People buy them for the ambiance, not to save money, but I think there are probably situations where one clearly makes more sense than the other.

In the final analysis, I think it's unrealistic to expect any commercial fuel source not to shadow the price of oil. The only fuel most people have any real control over is chunk wood, and that's only if you cut it yourself.

People buy cars with worse mileage - sometimes just for the "bling". A big factors is the "show and tell my friends about it"......gadget factor, fire, etc....

But Eric has it nailed - pretty much any processing that makes something easy to use is gonna make the cost higher. Since you can pump oil out of the ground like water, and it is also very concentrated, this makes it a wondereful fuel. Pellets, on the other hand, have to be cut, dried, pelletized, packaged and transported in relatively small batches.

No doubt if we have a large pellet infrastructure where we moved them like bulk corn, we could do better on price! But you pretty much get what you pay for when it comes to purchased energy - even cordwood!

 

[begreen]

Our primary heat, already installed, is propane forced air. Needless to say, we use it as little as possible. Our local price for heating oil is over $2.25/gal. In the past 5 years oil has always been high. In order to have fuel oil for heat, I'd have to pay more, install an oil tank with all it's EPA wonderfulness (if underground), new furnace and be captive to a capricious and declining supply. Sawdust is made in mountains locally. Pellet costs ($180/ton) have been pretty stable.

 

[elkimmeg]

OT here, but very worry some. Presidence day week and car sales are now up for gas guzzling SUV's
Why? Gas prices are approaching $2 When will we ever learn. On the old forum I posted this observation.
One day in Oct parked in front of my office was 2 Ford Expoditions Two suburbans and a Hummer. All occupants
and drivers, ( no other passengers), were here to obtain permits for pellet stoves?????? One had bought pellet insert, 3 tons of pellets and the Cheeta Ash vac, total invoice including install $6350. All purchaced top of the line Qudra-fires and Harmans.
Figure out that thought process?

 

[HarryBack]

Ive no idea elk....no idea....kinda like one of the basic premises of Economics 101.....assume people act rationally....riiiight

 

[begreen]

OT here, but very worry some. Presidence day week and car sales are now up for gas guzzling SUV's
Why? Gas prices are approaching $2 When will we ever learn. On the old forum I posted this observation.
One day in Oct parked in front of my office was 2 Ford Expoditions Two suburbans and a Hummer. All occupants
and drivers, ( no other passengers), were here to obtain permits for pellet stoves?????? One had bought pellet insert, 3 tons of pellets and the Cheeta Ash vac, total invoice including install $6350. All purchaced top of the line Qudra-fires and Harmans.
Figure out that thought process?

Well if it's any comfort Elk, we just got a Prius. And we're real happy we got the QuadraFire. I'll continue to invest at the edge of technology for the long run.

 

[Xena]

Last time I got a delivery, our oil was 2.58 per gal.
I paid 229 for the last ton of pellets I bought...obviously
one has to do the math because prices do vary considerably
around the Country, but for me it was costing twice the money
to heat my house with oil over pellets.

 

[Michael6268]

Savings are minimal or not at all. I am not going to get into specifics on prices and cost of kilowatts etc, but to sum it up, I had a pellet stove for many years some time ago. I used to pay 95.00 a ton for pellets and it was a great savings. As the prices went up and averaged around 180.00 + a ton, i found it was cheaper, easier and more cost effective to use the electric baseboard in my home. At the time I was using average -2 bags of pellets a day @ approx $4.00 a bag = $8.00 a day, plus the cost of the electicity to run the stoves auger fans etc. ended up $8.00+ !! I then used my electric heat exclusively under the same conditons and my electric usage was approx $8.50 per day. That included all my heat, hot water, lights, appliances etc. So it was a no brainer at that point to do away with the pellet stove and stay with electric. Since then ,new house and switched to coal. Couldnt be happier.

 

[joshuaviktor]

DIVERSIFY

Coal, Oil, wood, corn, pellets, NG, whatever. Pick a mix, figure out your storage, and buy whatever's cheapest. Remember, a corn stove will probably burn pellets, and vice versa (at least a mix). Buy a wood/coal stove and burn either. Set up cheap homemade passive solar, and bake away.

The world is changing. Whether you believe in Peak Oil or not, prices are variable, and world events look to make fossil fuels prices more variable, and likely higher.

Make like a boy scout.

My .02.

Joshua

 

[Czech]

I'm with Josh on this one. Also, all depends what you're paying for NG, oil, etc. Here in the northern mindwest, a pellet (multifuel) stove can make a ton of sense, although that is not entirely why I purchased this year. One top of my NG usage going from 125ccf in Dec prior to stove house at 65 degrees, to 20ccf in Jan after stove house at 71 degrees. Bill was $140 less than Dec and it was colder in Jan, another $60 in Feb and I've paid for my fuel this year. On top of that, the fam is now using the basement where the stove is on a daily basis, and the NG clothes drier has some competetion which is a bonus. Just my experince,

Bob

 

[PutnamJct]

I'm in"Downstate NY" and my oil has averaged $2.60 per gallon all season. My oil use each month (in an overall mild winter) has been about 155 gallons per month. My math works out to $400 plus per month for oil. Current events don't give any logical reason why the price of oil is going to nosedive anytime soon, if ever. With the current high pellet price, I still come out way ahead even at $250 per pallet. Most I would probably use in a full season is 4 pallets. That barely covers 2 and a half months of oil at today's prices. Yes it will take a few years to recover the stove & install price, but it will pay for itself eventually. In addition, I get the "feel good" of flipping off the oil man, the Saudis and Exxon; and the "bling factor" of a roaring fire in my den/office that heats the whole house.

 

[Jim Doten]

I got my pallet of pellets for approx $200.00, Lignetics. Have Natural Gas for my main source of heat but decided to diversify. Have only had my pellet stove in for a short time (three weeks) but love it so far. What got me started is the influx of LNG corps trying to put terminals on the Columbia river, and trying to fight them. Figured I was being a bit of a hypocrite, using Natural gas for heating and hot water, plus I like the flamage. Haven't gotten a natural gas bill yet to see the savings.

 

[hearthtools]

Pellets are made from renewable resources
Oil is not. We can not grow more dinosaurs

Not everyone lives in the east and has a basement for a oil furnace.
Some states you can NOT put a tank underground with out spending 20K for a leak proof vault.

 

[Metal]

I think there is still a lot of the "oooh, aaaah" factor in the purchasing of Pellet Stoves, and that is fine, not everything makes financial sense. People have huge bathtubs in their master baths that pretty much drains their water heater. They could get clean cheaper by taking a shower, yet almost every new house has a huge bathtub in it (including mine). How many of you pour water on your lawn in the summer so it grows so you can cut it with your gas powered mower? The list goes on...

 

[johndough]

<<At, say, $220 per ton, 4.40 per bag… why the hell are you burning the stuff?
<<It just about equals out to $2.00/gal oil, which is what my last 2 fills were priced at.

If I read the chart you attached right, it looks to me more like $220/Ton = $1.90 a gallon
I paid $220 ton and My oil price is $2.50gal

Last year by timer, I kept my house at 56 degrees when not home and raised it to 60 at 5:30-6:30 am ( then back to 56) and raised it again to 63 at 3:00 to 8:45pm My burner uses EXACTLY 1 gallon per burn hour ( I would tell the delivery guy how much he delivered before he handed me the slip - used the time off the timer and reset it ea delivery)
Last year I used 904 gallons

This year I used 100% pellets - No Oil at all - I keep the house at 70degrees 24hrs day ( minor variations ) and so far have used 102 bags - I estimate I will need about another 35 bags to finish this year, but to make it easier, round it up to 150bags or 3 ton

So it should cost me less than $660 for pellet this year VS if I used the same amount of oil as last year I would be looking at $2,260 yes this year has been a bit warmer, but I also kept the house ALOT warmer - and yes I had to buy the stove, but with that kind of savings and extra warmth next year I Hope to be WAY ahead of the game..

and thats MY 'Splaination...

 

[Michael6268]

The one thing it seems everyone forgets to add into their equations are the fact that the stove needs electricity to run. Usually a minimum of one auger and two fans. With the rising cost of electicity it is a factor.

 

[johndough]

No, I didnt forget that, but the increase in usage was very minimal at the absolute most it was $5 a month and the oil burner uses electricity ( which is no longer used)

 

[Czech]

Agree with John. I'd rather spin a couple small fans and an auger than a gas furnace squirrel cage. I'd guess the electricity usage is minimal, I'm sure someone here can tell you exact numbers Michael. I figure if I clean my refrig coils once a month, that'll make up for it. Happy Friday all,

Bob

 

[webbie]

<<At, say, $220 per ton, 4.40 per bag… why the hell are you burning the stuff?
<<It just about equals out to $2.00/gal oil, which is what my last 2 fills were priced at.

If I read the chart you attached right, it looks to me more like $220/Ton = $1.90 a gallon
I paid $220 ton and My oil price is $2.50gal

Last year by timer, I kept my house at 56 degrees when not home and raised it to 60 at 5:30-6:30 am ( then back to 56) and raised it again to 63 at 3:00 to 8:45pm My burner uses EXACTLY 1 gallon per burn hour ( I would tell the delivery guy how much he delivered before he handed me the slip - used the time off the timer and reset it ea delivery)
Last year I used 904 gallons

This year I used 100% pellets - No Oil at all - I keep the house at 70degrees 24hrs day ( minor variations ) and so far have used 102 bags - I estimate I will need about another 35 bags to finish this year, but to make it easier, round it up to 150bags or 3 ton

So it should cost me less than $660 for pellet this year VS if I used the same amount of oil as last year I would be looking at $2,260 yes this year has been a bit warmer, but I also kept the house ALOT warmer - and yes I had to buy the stove, but with that kind of savings and extra warmth next year I Hope to be WAY ahead of the game..

and thats MY 'Splaination...

OK, so let me understand this right......comparing oil at 2.50 and pellets at 220/ton is a difference of 10% cheaper for the pellets - not including the gas to get them, etc.

So, BTU for BTU, a 10% difference. BUT, you are saving 75%.

While I agree there are a lot of factors involved, this type of experience, in my opinion, is either inaccurate, misleading or just plain rare! Perhaps you have a terrible oil burner or inefficient system.

We cannot dispute the basics - a BTU is a BTU. So if you used a monitor (freestanding) oil heater instead of the Pellet Stove you'd probably spend somewhere around the exact same $$ per year. Pellets are not saving you money....something else is.

I only clarify this so that potential buyers are well informed. Having been in the industry for 25+ years, I've heard so many miracle stories - and my feeling is that this can raise expectations. In this case, a 10% savings in BTU to BTU somehow created a 75% savings in heat! There must be more to the story.

We used to say "those pellets must be nuclear"......

 

[Czech]

I got krypton ones for $400 a ton, work great. I'm one my 6th one now, not bags or tons, but the 6th pellet. Like I said, they work great.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[PutnamJct]

Craig:

Maybe I am missing something.

I posted earlier in the thread with $2.60 per gallon oil vs $250 ton pellets. If I only spend $1000 for a seasons worth of pellets and I already spent $2400 on oil this year (and I would still get another $1000 worth between now and May) My total oil bill for Sept 05 thru April/May 06 would be close to $3400 if I kept using it. Next season I won't be spending more then $1000 on pellets (hopefuly) and the oil burner will never turn on. I doubt oil is going to be much cheaper in September 06 then it is now. If home heating oil miraculously drops to $.89 a gallon retail, then maybe it's time to reconsider.

With the oil market so fragile now, I wouldn't bet on it stabiliziing any time soon which would lower the prices. Just today an attack or possible attack in Saudi Arabia jacked the price of oil up $2.00 a barrel. The oil comapnies and traders always have an excuse of some sort to keep the prices high. In April they'll start jacking up the Gasoline prices because "it's the summer driving season". In the fall, it will be the "home heating season". Lots of excuses and the market is way too volatile for me. But I digress :cheese:

The electricity usage of the furnace vs the stove most be pretty close.

Two unused rooms in the house are cooler then when I used oil, but that is a small price to pay.

Am I nuts?

 

[webbie]

Craig:

Maybe I am missing something.

The electricity usage of the furnace vs the stove most be pretty close.

Two unused rooms in the house are cooler then when I used oil, but that is a small price to pay.

Am I nuts?

I am not suggesting that Pellets are not a part of the renewable pictures, just that when math and physics and figured in, the cost over the past 5 years has been higher for pellets than oil or NG. The price now can vary, but with the shortage of Pellets this year it was often close or within 10%.

So, if the price per BTU is close, the total amount of dollars to provide the same heat is close...of course, assuming all else is equal. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

There has been so much overselling and BS over the years that I feel it important to take up the mantle of reality. It is simple to compare the costs per BTU. But, as mentioned before, there is much more to it - people like that Pellets are homegrown and renewable. They like having a fire and the gadget factor. They like driving to the store and loading up the bags and stacking them at home.

I am only speaking about the $$$ in this case. If one fuel cost 10% less than another, and one fuel took $2000 a year, the other would be $1800 a year. Period. (assuming same efficiencies)