Hey all.

[bwellmy]

I got sent this direction from my "Old House" forum. They said I would get more answers than I knew what to do with....


Here's what I have. We own an 1888 story and a half with a beautiful copper fronted fireplace insert. Problem is, most of the chimney is original and I have no idea what condition it is in. I plan on getting a guy out sometime in the near future, but want to know all my options before i start getting quotes and opinions.

The chimney comes out of the roof halfway down. Once it enters the roofline, it 45's towards the outside wall then 45's down to the fireplace. About 3- 5 feet above the firebox (guessiing) it goes from square (above) down to a narrow channel. It's been awhile since I had the box out, but I know it's pretty narrow.

The major problem is, what are my options if I need to line it? Everyone I've talked to say a flex liner is the way to go, but will they be able to go from round to something more oblong above the box?


Here are a few rough (sorry, quickly drawn) sketches of what the layout is. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bwellmy]

Front view........

Where it bells out is where it goes from square down to a narrow channel.

 

[begreen]

It will be a challenge, but may be possible with oval liner. What is the flue interior dimmension?

 

[bwellmy]

Here's the beauty (with original tile hearth). I really want to get this thing working!!

 

[bwellmy]

Excuse Gunnar....

When I turned the 'fake' fireplace on he was mesmerised..... :lol:

 

[begreen]

Wow, that is a beauty. Do you know any information or history on the insert? Can we coax a close up and maybe a door open shot of it?

 

[bwellmy]

Here's the only information on it. It is a plate riveted to the upper portion between the two top openings.

 

[begreen]

What would the liner be tying in to? Is there a flue collar on this insert?

 

[bwellmy]

From what I can tell looking up, It just dumps up into the chimney through the two holes in the top of the liner.

Here are a few inside shots I just took.....

 

[bwellmy]

Couple of the outside....

 

[begreen]

That's a great piece of history. What are your thoughts on connecting it to a liner? Seems almost like the fireplace was custom built to fit the insert. If so, tying it to a liner could be challenging.

 

[bwellmy]

Grew up without a fireplace so I'm pretty novice in this. I would think it would be a good thing to tie it in myself. Makes sense, right? The reason I pulled the insert out shortly after buying the place was out of curiousity. I had to scoop a TON of debree, mostly ash, from behind the insert. It's a fairly decent box it slides into if memory serves me. I'll tear into it tomorrow night and take some more pics. Shoule be able to shoot up and give you guys a better feel for what I'm seeing.

I have kept putting this off because I have a feeling this might turn into a "project", ya know?

Other thing I though of sitting here would be this..........Is it possible to open the old brick up above the chimney (where it comes through into our side attic) right before it 45's the first time and just build up and out from there with new chimney? Thus allowing for a possible stright down shot with rigid pipe? Or would I have to encase the piping back in with a tile or brick of some kind? My only fear is of the heat off the pipe in that attic section before going out the roofline.

I'll get pics of the chimney going through that attic space as well.

 

[begreen]

There are multiple issues here. The primary issue is safety. I am guessing that the chimney has no tile liner and probably has bricks right against the wood structural framing. I'd expect the mortar is shot and quite crumbly. With the high temps possible with a wood stove that is issue #1. The second issue is how to convert this old insert to connect to a modern, lined chimney system. For sure this will need an insulated liner.

To know whether this is possible we will need some more data. A picture of the outside top of the insert wouldn't hurt. It seems at best that a custom collar is going to need to be made. But we also need the flue interior size at top and at the damper (is there one?) throat. Pics of the damper or smoke bell above the insert might help.

 

[bwellmy]

There are multiple issues here. The primary issue is safety. I am guessing that the chimney has no tile liner and probably has bricks right against the wood structural framing. I'd expect the mortar is shot and quite crumbly. With the high temps possible with a wood stove that is issue #1. The second issue is how to convert this old insert to connect to a modern, lined chimney system. For sure this will need an insulated liner.

To know whether this is possible we will need some more data. A picture of the outside top of the insert wouldn't hurt. It seems at best that a custom collar is going to need to be made. But we also need the flue interior size at top and at the damper (is there one?) throat. Pics of the damper or smoke bell above the insert might help.

When replacing the vinyl siding with good Hardieplank this fall, I was able to see the outside of the chimney and yes the morter was questionable. I also assume there is no tile lining. I will be able to look closer tomorrow when pulling the insert.

As for a damper, I am pretty sure the only thing I have is what is built into the insert. Nothing I've seen would suggest a damper furthur up in the flue.


Going back to my previous question, would I be able to just remove all the brick for most of the way and just run a doublewall all the way up and out? It's hard work, but I've done it once already with removing the original brick chimney that would've been for the oil/coal burner which was gone before me. I'd throw some more bricks to get this running right. ;-)

 

[bwellmy]

Over on Old House Web forum, someone suggest I burn coal again.......

Would this type of insert be for coal only? It would explain the black residue on the flue, but there was also a lot of ash behind the insert the first time I took it out.


Here are a couple of new pics of the firebox and up the flue. The dimensions I point out in the one pick of the flue size are about 5' up in the chimney.

 

[oconnor]

How about a pic of the back of the insert where the smoke exits?

 

[bwellmy]

 

[bwellmy]

Here we go....


Actually found a different stamp on the back. It is Dawson Bros. Chicago, Ill.

 

[stoveguy13]

Your best bet may be to have a poured chimney liner put in the safest bet may be to keep it a non working firplace the mantel looks to be rather close but is hard to tell from the pics i would say the whole chimney and fireplace needs alot of work and to try and connect a oval ss liner to that unit does not look like it will work well with the damper doors fliping to the back.

 

[BrotherBart]

Your best bet may be to have a poured chimney liner put in the safest bet may be to keep it a non working firplace the mantel looks to be rather close but is hard to tell from the pics i would say the whole chimney and fireplace needs alot of work and to try and connect a oval ss liner to that unit does not look like it will work well with the damper doors fliping to the back.

What he said.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Excuse Gunnar....

When I turned the 'fake' fireplace on he was mesmerised..... :lol:

wifey told me to say "awwww" about the dachound, we have a long haired mini. and likley will have a few more before its all done.

 

[rphurley]

Here's the beauty (with original tile hearth). I really want to get this thing working!!

That's a beauty. I don't suppose it's EPA or has a blower on it!

 

[bfunk13]

That is so very cool!
I really like the front door details.
Too bad the chimney is in that condition and configuration.
Are you looking to heat with wood, or just want to burn the fireplace?

Is there room in your house for an EPA state of the art stove?
I would almost leave that one there just for looks.
It is beautiful.

Brad

 

[stoveguy2esw]

im with brad, it is an exquisite example of craftsmanship. beautiful period piece!

 

[begreen]

Your best bet may be to have a poured chimney liner put in the safest bet may be to keep it a non working firplace the mantel looks to be rather close but is hard to tell from the pics i would say the whole chimney and fireplace needs alot of work and to try and connect a oval ss liner to that unit does not look like it will work well with the damper doors fliping to the back.

What he said.

I was thinking about this overnight and came to the same conclusion. Bring in some poured chimney liner companies to take a look and give an appraisal.