Hey everyone I'm trying to decide wether I need a high effeciency wood burning fireplace or a wood stove. I really like the Napoleon 3000 fireplace but I'm worried it won't throw out enough heat. My living room is 20 x 20 with 17' walls then it cathedral ceiling up to 22'. The foyer attaches to this room along with the kitchen and dining room. All rooms have 10' ceilings. There is a wall between the living room and the kitchen and dining room. There is also a door on a balcony that goes into a bonus room. From everyone's experience, what do y'all think.
High efficiency fireplace or wood stove
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Is that a new construction or a pre-existing house? Is it located in Florida? What kind of winter temps do you get? Hew well is the house insulated? Are you thinking of supplemental heat or wood as primary heat source?
The efficiencies of a modern EPA-approved woodstove and EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace are almost the same; you can chose whichever you like better and fits in your budget. The question is how large of an area (or in your case total space) you want to heat and how well you can distribute the heat. Those high ceilings will make it difficult to move the warm air around the house. Plan on installing a ceiling fan at the very minimum. Do you have a floorplan that you could post?
The efficiencies of a modern EPA-approved woodstove and EPA-approved zero clearance fireplace are almost the same; you can chose whichever you like better and fits in your budget. The question is how large of an area (or in your case total space) you want to heat and how well you can distribute the heat. Those high ceilings will make it difficult to move the warm air around the house. Plan on installing a ceiling fan at the very minimum. Do you have a floorplan that you could post?
I'm remodeling now. I have a insert and it is useless. It will be supplemental source of heat. I am in fl and it gets I lower 30's in the winter time. Floor plan would be like this. Take a 35 x 35 box. Divide the box in half. The divide line is a wall that seperates the kitchen and dining room from the living room. The foyer and living room is in the other half and there is no walls between them. I've read some reviews on the Napoleon 3000 and some of them say it doesn't heat the room very well.
If you are in remodel mode why not simply plan for a freestanding stove. They are typically the most straight forward and simple install that you can do. A freestanding stove is also about as good as you can get for pumping heat into a room.
Do you have an insert in a masonry fireplace or a prefab fireplace? Would you mind posting a picture?
Your floorplan is kind of a challenge as it is hard to judge how much heat you will "lose" in the dead space above your head. What is your current heating source and how much fuel does it consume during the coldest month?
What is your budget? A zero clearance fireplace will look more sophisticated but will also be more expensive especially if you are not doing the install yourself. If you want to look at models other than the Napoleon check out Lennox, RSF, Fireplace Xtraordinaire, Valcourt, maybe the Kozyheat Z42 and Pacific Energy FP30. An affordable option is the Osburn Stratford. Make sure the models you look at are labeled as "EPA-approved" or "EPA-certified" or similar. Right now, I would suggest looking at models with a firebox size of 2 to 2.5 cu ft but as said, it is hard to judge your heating needs based on the description of your home.
For such a mild climate a catalytic woodstove is usually a good option. A cat stove can be run on low for a long time without having the risk of depositing a lot of creosote in the flue. The BlazeKing 30 series (Ashford, Sirocco, Chinnok) or the Woodstock Fireview would be options. (Maybe the BlazeKing 20 series would also be enough.)
Last but not least: If you are serious about heating with wood, make sure to get your firewood cut, split and stacked now. Any EPA-approved stove/fireplace will need wood with a moisture content of less than 20%. That means the wood will need between one to two years to season by exposing it to lots of wind and sun.
I would rather place stone around whatever unit I buy. I have a 5 ton heat pump unit now and it struggles to keep up on the coldest months. I've looked at all the models you listed but like the looks of the Napoleon. I'm just not sure it will do the job. I can buy the Napoleon very reasonable but I don't wont somethi like I got now which is a prefab fireplace I call it an insert. The Napoleon doesn't have a effeciency rating so I called them and they said that they where except from this. Makes me very skeptical. I'll have to figure out how to post pics with this phone.
I sure wouldn't install a fireplace that's "exempt". Napoleons are typically cheaper for a good reason. They are usually cheaper built units, or "exempt" in this case. Don't be fooled by good looks.
The FPX is probably the best looking, best heating unit one the list, but also the highest price tag. For a good look and decent price I think the Valcourt or the Enerzone fireplaces are respectable heaters. And If you want a better look on the same fireplace, check out the Hearthstone Montegomery. It is the very same fireplace but with a cast iron front. (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-zero-clearance-fireplaces)
The FPX is probably the best looking, best heating unit one the list, but also the highest price tag. For a good look and decent price I think the Valcourt or the Enerzone fireplaces are respectable heaters. And If you want a better look on the same fireplace, check out the Hearthstone Montegomery. It is the very same fireplace but with a cast iron front. (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-zero-clearance-fireplaces)
Yes I like the look of stone around the fireplace. My living room is rustic/country looking. I looked at the montegomery but don't really like the hammered faceplate. I want the arch faceplate also. I looked up the fox and its a cat. I would rather have a non cat.does anyone know of any stoves that have glass doors and can be stoned around the face plate?
That would be a ZC fireplace then if you want to encase it in a stone facade. Have you looked at the Lennox Montecito? I find it rather similar looking to the Napoleon.
Have you thought about putting an insert into your prefab fireplace? It is a point of contention here whether that is really a good idea but some inserts and fireplaces are approved for that purpose. Without a major remodel and probably half the cost you will get the look of a fireplace while heating your place. Any luck getting a pic posted? Under the comment box is an option to upload a file.
Fireplace is in the middle of an outside wall. I am going to move it into a corner. So there not any stoves that can be stoned around? I have looked at the Montecito. I just liked the looks of the Napoleon better. Can anyone give me any advice on this unit?
I am getting a little bit confused as to what advice you are looking for. If you want to encase your woodheating unit into a chase with stone veneer or similar on top you will need to search for a zero clearance fireplace. Although some Buck stoves double also as ZC fireplaces, I doubt that you will approve their look. Other stoves have too large clearances to combustibles to make that an option. On the other hand, a modern, EPA-approved ZC fireplace will give you similar efficiencies to a woodstove, so there would be no need to specifically look for a stove.
If you are looking for advice on the Napoleon, I cannot give you any other than what has been said before. It is cheaper and EPA-exempt for a reason. You stated yourself that several reviews were doubting its heating capabilities. It is up to you if you want to put form over function. Should you get it I would also plan on cleaning the flue regularly as more smoke may go up the chimney.
Napoleon makes both EPA approved and exempt fireplaces. The NZ3000 is an EPA certified unit. If that is what gets you excited, go for it. It will do the job, this is FL not NH. If you want a better fireplace consider the FPX Elite series. Regardless of choice, you will want to be running ceiling fans to break up the heat stratification that will occur at the peak of the cathedral ceiling.
http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500104
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http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500104
PS: Welcome to Hearth.com
Your 5 ton heat pump is having a hard time heating your house in Fla?
Do you leave your windows open?
Good point, sounds pretty inefficient or perhaps there is a ducting design flaw? A lot of FL houses' hvac systems are biased toward cooling with ceiling or high wall vents only.
On cold winter days my havoc struggles to keep up like I said earlier . The shortest cieling height in this house is 10 ft. and there is 2600 sf of house. That's a lot of volume to heat on a 32 degree day. Grisu I have looked at the buck stove. May go with that if y'all think it will heat better than a ZC fireplace. I know that I definitely want the stone. Therefore do y'all think the buck stove would heat better than the FPX?
No (or maybe marginal better)
Long answer: A modern EPA-approved ZC fireplace is as efficient as any modern woodstove. You lose some of the radiant heat with a fireplace but with your plans of encasing the stove that would be the same in both cases. Particular models may be slightly more efficient than others but quite frankly we are talking here of maybe 1/4 cord or less of difference over an entire winter. Having dry wood, a proper install and knowing how to operate the stove/fireplace will have a much bigger impact on efficiency.
Think of an EPA-approved ZC fireplace as a woodstove in another metalbox. Air is going through that metalbox thereby allowing the fireplace to be close to combustibles. Here is a scheme:
(broken link removed to http://www.dubuquefireplaceandpatio.com/fireplace.images/zero-clearance-fireplace.jpg)
For example the model 80 can be bought as stove or as ZC fireplace: (broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/model-80zc.html) However, don't get me wrong you cannot buy the model 80 and use it as fireplace, you have to purchase the 80ZC. The internal stove part is the same (I think).
Does the picture show the location you want to put the fireplace? Is that a window above it close to the ceiling. What will happen with that? Any particular reason you want to move the fireplace from its current spot?
The window will be coming out. That is the corner that the unit will be going in. I want it in the corner so I can utilize the wall it is on now. I noticed the FXP has cats. How long do they last and how often would they have to be cleaned here in Fl? Can I bypass the cats somehow to make it a non cat unit? The stove guy in my area said no sense in having the cats just something else to have to worry about and fix or replace later!
What is the source of this efficiency comparison? I would expect a freestanding stove to be notably more efficient in transferring heat into the living space and a ZC fireplace closer to an insert.
Maybe you should ask those questions an actual FPX owner or their customer service. For other brands, people have reported here between 5 to 8 years before replacing the cat. BlazeKing had tested some of the cats they got back and even after 10 years many were still in good shape. Since you will probably not burn as much as other cat stove owners, yours may last longer. Making sure the door seals are good can go a long way to prolong the life of the cat according to BlazeKing.
Cleaning usually means a few times per winter to take the cat out and brush off the ash. You don't want to burn any treated or painted wood in a cat stove, no plastic or other junk, no colorful magazines etc. However, the cat makes the FPX an efficient unit. You could burn it with the bypass open but your efficiency will drop from somewhere in the 75% range to about 30%. Plus, that may damage your fireplace/chimney system.
Since the Napoleon NZ3000 is actually an EPA-approved fireplace, as BeGreen rightfully remarked, and you like its look, why not go for that when you are suspicious of the cat?
Sounds like a major remodel. Good luck!
Since when does an insert burn less efficient than the equivalent stove? The PE Super certainly posts the same numbers. The OP also made clear he wants no freestanding stove, so differences in heat distribution won't matter.
Thanks everyone. I'm going to look at a buck stove with masonry around it this weekend. If I like what I see I may go with that if not i will have to decide on which ZC fireplace .
Would that be an alcove install of the freestanding stove? Would you mind posting a picture here? It will look very different than the Napoleon you were initially interested in.
It's about getting the heat to where it is needed..here we go with the fans again..lol.
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