High wind cap / termination cap question. Please help.

[Bluebeat1]

Hi Folks.

Need some help with Termination / end cap. I live on a mountain and strong winds constantly blowing out the propane fireplace we have. I was offered another cap from the people who sold me original . I have found one that seems a better solution. But I am not a specialist and have no clue about dynamics. Please see attached picture. A honest opinion from someone who actually knows about those things will be highly appreciated.
Thank you!

 

[DAKSY]

Is your current cap on the windward side?
Leeward?
Between Windward & Leeward?

 

[Bluebeat1]

Is your current cap on the windward side?
Leeward?
Between Windward & Leeward?

Thanks for reply.
I guess Windward. See attached drawing, not sure if it explains scenario.

 

[DAKSY]

If you have a piece of aluminum sheet, you can
approximate one if the high wind caps by cutting
it to the height of the cap & calculating the length
you need to wrap around your cap.
Refer to the lower right drawing in your pic
Attach one end to one side using 1/4" hex head (zip) screws,
arching it around the cap & the attaching it to the other side...
BTW, what stove are you using?

 

[Millbilly]

How does your pilot light look? We use the cap on oceanfront homes in the northeast without issue

 

[Bluebeat1]

DAKSY,
Thanks for trying. I see what you are saying. It is a sort of solution, but I am not that handy... to make it nice, it would be a temp solution. Stove is Avalon Cypress.
-----
Millbily,
Sometimes wind would blow pilot out, the stove has auto shutoff... then in a few seconds it would re-ignite. But... Sometimes it would not, so room would cool off to about 50sh over night.
--------

A local stove place offers "services" and most likely I will use them, but I do wish to get the best wind cap to suit the situation. So I would not have to do it twice So initial question still stands, can anybody tell me if the cap offered is better or same as the one I have found? Or there is a better wind cap available that I don't know of?

Thanks.

 

[Millbilly]

How long ago was this installed?

 

[Bluebeat1]

"How long ago was this installed? "
Not very sure how this is relevant....

 

[Millbilly]

Ok

 

[DAKSY]

"How long ago was this installed? "
Not very sure how this is relevant....

No reason to get snotty, dude. You came here looking for answers & Millbilly's question IS relevant.
If this has been installed for years, the problems could be the result of wear & tear.
If it's a BRAND NEW install, then there may be other issues.

Back to your stove: What is the restrictor set at?

 

[Bluebeat1]

No reason to get snotty, dude. You came here looking for answers & Millbilly's question IS relevant.
If this has been installed for years, the problems could be the result of wear & tear.
If it's a BRAND NEW install, then there may be other issues.

Back to your stove: What is the restrictor set at?

View attachment 272732

Daksy,
" snotty " Lol, I am not. I sincerely do not see how it can be relevant. It was installed about 6 years ago. I do not think it is wear and tear.
What I do think possible reasons what is happening:
1) difference in weather / wind patterns because one year it would happen more often than other.
2) The actual end cap I have is a bad performer for my location/position.
3) maybe exactly what you are saying about restrictor and they got a wrong setting. I did not install it myself, I am not sure... I am really not comfortable in doing something that involves propane.

Having said that, I DO wish to invite stove people who actually know this stuff, I just do not want to pay for two visits, if it is indeed end/wind cap design. I want to have the better one on hands available, or make them order a specific one. I hope this explains.

Thanks.

 

[Millbilly]

Good luck bluebeat

 

[Bluebeat1]

"Good luck" was not the answer I was looking for when I joined. And definitely not being called "snotty". I asked a direct question and was hoping for direct answer(s). Daksy kind of point me to the right direction, but I am just not handy to make a "nice" cover that my wife would appreciate sticking out of the front of the house.... So I went on a little exploration expedition.... I found perfect $50 "over the top" of existing end cap cover that simply solved my problem of wind blowing out pilot. Here is a photo (with brand name)... for somebody who are in the same/similar situation I was and desperately searching web for answers... not to wake up to a cold house.

 

[coaly]

"How long ago was this installed? "
Not very sure how this is relevant....

If it was installed new this year you could have a wind issue.
If it was installed years ago and has worked for years, the pilot probably needs cleaning.

Now we know it has been in use 6 years. Has it been serviced or cleaned in those 6 years?

The pilot burner has a very tiny oriface that a little corrosion will close the hole enough to decrease the pilot slightly. That is enough for normal wind to flicker the pilot instead of being a strong burning flame.
There is also a small air intake on the pilot burner that gets dust and spider webs in. This will decrease the heat from the pilot as well.
Is the pilot all blue, or is there a yellow flame tip?
Look closely at the pilot flame for a bright blue small flame possibly down inside the hood, like a deflector, and a larger blue outer flame.
Over time it can get smaller and you don't notice it.
Always have the pilot cleaned first before assuming there is another problem. 9 times out of 10 cleaning a pilot orifice and pilot burner corrects the issue.

If this is a thermocouple system (you hold a button down to light, then when pilot lights hold it another 30 seconds before letting go, then the pilot stays on) the thermocouple looks like a little rod in front of the pilot flame. The flame has to cut across the upper third of it. If the pilot curls upward without cutting across the tip of the thermocouple, the pilot flame is weak. Look at it with the main burner off, pilot only lit. That's the best way to explain it. Retired gas man here that has seen many as you describe that just needed cleaning.

If the pilot flame cuts across the thermocouple strong with pilot only lit, turn on main burner and watch pilot flame. Does this change it? Does it still cut across the thermocouple?

 

[coaly]

Next question is what part of the US is this in?
Some areas can get away with cleaning every 10 years. Others need cleaning every year. Sometimes a certain foliage in the area harbors an insect that plugs them right up. I had customers with campers that came from Florida that had a strange to me red paste on components screwing auto ignition controls, and found they had fire ants there that the built nests in the equipment and cooked them to a red paste. Salt air, hot / cold condensing air at night, Southern states that have the equipment set idle more than used is harder on them than constant use. Location matters.

Other causes in a sealed combustion system with outside intake and exhaust can be a slight leak in a glass gasket, or air leak where a pilot is mounted. The air rushes in where it shouldn't when the main burner is on, causing the pilot flame to move from where it needs to be to heat the safety device. (thermocouple, thermopile, or flame sensor) That's why I suggest to watch the pilot flame carefully.

If it is normal, and you may not know what normal should be since people don't watch the pilot when it's working correctly......... the next test is finding out exactly when the pilot goes out in the heating cycle.
See how long it stays lit with pilot only. The pilot could be strong enough for a calm day, but the slightest air movement could cause issues when dirty.
See if the pilot "sucks out" when main burner shuts down, this is the point in time where most shut down. The main burner shuts off, but you still have draft moving through the firebox. The pilot will waver, maybe lift off the pilot burner a little, but flame should regain itself when the air flow stops in a few seconds.

Other strange causes are a burner shutting down harshly and the "pop" burns all the oxygen in the area of the pilot light causing it to go out. Just have to watch closely. No substitute for a gas man being there with a electric meter and pressure gauge. Electric current and pressure needs to be verified before putting any parts on the system.

I know you have an Avalon Cypress, but there are different variations of that model. I don't know what controls they had 6 years ago.

 

[Bluebeat1]

coaly,
Thank you for reply...
Problem is resolved with the wind cover, the one I had included a photo.


But to answer the questions, yes, pilot assembly was cleaned about a year back, burner was replaced. It is not about that. It is about the wind patterns a few weeks a year / severe wind gusts that were blowing out the pilot. Mountain top stuff. Again, so far, 3 weeks with cover - no blown out pilot. Tried getting a "gas man"... but they are weeks out. Again, the cover did the trick.

 

[coaly]

Good, back in the day servicing Empire direct vent heaters I had a few on lakes that suffered pilot outages and Empire added a little tab in the exhaust that wasn’t much, but it made turbulence out of the wind coming in that did the trick. That was the only units I ever had with wind problems. It’s not common at all.