Been cutting free oak, locust, and apple tree all laying down yesterday all day. Went to a friends to chill for a little. He decided he was going to clean his flue. Cool figured id watch maybe get some pointers. Dosen get the brush and poles but gets the wood. He fills the fire box full then puts pallet wood on top. In about 20min the temp gauge bout 14" up read 600 and bacon was frying inside the pipe. Look out and embers were coming out the vent cap. Are mini chimny fires safe? Even in his stainless insulated flue? There were no flames coming out the cap but the cap was glowing or it was a red reflection of fire in side pipe. How bout some info.
holy crap has this dude lost it?
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some people might get a little bent outta shape about the chimney being 600 degrees and all but the fact is old timers have been doing that since before most people on this site were were a glimmer in there mothers eye. they never had thermometers every where and fancy this and fancy that. they just trow a few logs in and crank it up when its cold and simmer it down when its hot. but...if you burn green wood with the air shut down for 6 months and then try it when there is an afful lot of buiild up it might get out of control. there is a method to the madness, you have to do it daily, give or take so it does not get to that point. after all the chimney we all most likely have is rated at a continuous temperature of 1000 degrees and like 2000 degrees for around 20 minutes or so twice. you still have 400 degrees before you get over your operating temp of your pipe. on the other hand that is also in the days of pre-epa stove which i have found greatly different than new ones. they dont have all those baffles and crap so you can blaze the stove and it all goes up your chimeny. my osburn absorbs so much heat that if i ever got my chimney up to 600 any where my stove would be like 900 degrees. this is where the stoves start to crack and what not. my father in law has a 20 year old (at least) stove and the stove never gets over 400 degrees. his pipe gets considerably hotter. his flames can just shoot up the pipe and burn out the creasote before it gets dangerously thick when the damper is open and then he simmers it back down to keep even heat in the house. burning fire in homes has been around for hundreds of years and could be considered an art. with all the fancy techno-crap i think the skill and the art of fire burning has been lost to the previous generations like many other things like the value of a little hard work.
akhilljack said:
The man is a poet. Cigar and Single Malt time. Inconvenient Truths be damned :coolsmile:
My landlord came over to clean out his chimney the other day. He climbed up on the roof and ran a iron 1'' pipe down the plugged chimney. He climbed down and went inside and put newspaper up inside the outlet of the kitchen stove, then went back up on the roof and poured one quart of diesel fuel down the pipe then removed the pipe. Left the roof and went back to the kitchen and touched a match to the newspaper. When I was watching from outside I watched the white smoke coming out of the chimney turn to a blue flame. When I walked back inside after seeing the blue flame can hear the fire huffing inside the kitchen. So I guess you could say the chimney is clean know. The landlord said " that if it plugs up again then just let me know and I'll come back again and clean it out."
For 40 years I ran a hot fire each morning in each stove. It works great but you have to be consistent. I much prefer the new method of just having no smoke. The old ways worked but give me the new ones.
akhilljack said:
OK, except, isn't cleaning your chimney with a brush harder work than just making a big damn fire?
I'll agree that we've lost a lot of art over the years to technology, but there's also keeping up with the times, too. I'm glad I'll never have to rebuild another carb. I've learned how to maintain a fuel-injected car. Sure, it's a lost art, but an art that sucked. I'd rather have a 70% efficiency stove and learn to maintain it properly than keep the "lost art" of setting the damn chimney on fire alive.
I say let him burn down the joint, just make sure he is not next to mine. There is no lost art in stupidity. A brush is not that difficult and works fine by me.
The two most famous sets of last words:
"I have been doing it this way all my life."
"Hey Bubba. Hold my beer and watch THIS!"
"I have been doing it this way all my life."
"Hey Bubba. Hold my beer and watch THIS!"
When we started burning in the 70's we were told to crank the fire up every morning to prevent any creosote accumulation. Now a days it sounds reckless to... 'burn off the creosote'. But back in the day when most everyone that learned wood burning from old timers...they did that cause it made sense. For about 3-4 minutes you might hear stuff cook off...then silence for 10-15 minutes...
...then they're were those that thought there's nothing to burning wood and just did it for a couple of years before asking for advice....
Today's stoves are better...no smoke no creosote.
...then they're were those that thought there's nothing to burning wood and just did it for a couple of years before asking for advice....
Today's stoves are better...no smoke no creosote.
I guess I am old school. I planned on a chimney fire once in a while to keep it clean. If I control the air with the stove air in and flue damper the fire can't get out of control.
Watching Dirty Jobs- they had a chimney fire and you could hear the tile liner cracking and popping.
I'd be curious if anyone has looked at a chimney before and after one of these 'fire' cleanings? I look through mine after putting the brush through and I know there is only a few slight traces of black clinging to the walls of the pipe. It sounds like the OP's friends raging fire only got the flue up to 600ºF 14" up the pipe, so it would seem to reason the other 15? + feet of pipe were even cooler.
~11-12 years ago - the one time I had actual 'crackling - bacon frying' in the pipe and could hear the sound moving up the pipe - I took the pipe apart a couple days later and there was still ~ 1/4" of fluffy creosote on all the surfaces I could see - and this was down by the stove. I hate to think what the last 3 feet of pipe looked like. At least it was a rental and I moved out not too long afterward, so it's probably still in that same condition and only dealing with other peoples 'once a year on Christmas' fires.
~11-12 years ago - the one time I had actual 'crackling - bacon frying' in the pipe and could hear the sound moving up the pipe - I took the pipe apart a couple days later and there was still ~ 1/4" of fluffy creosote on all the surfaces I could see - and this was down by the stove. I hate to think what the last 3 feet of pipe looked like. At least it was a rental and I moved out not too long afterward, so it's probably still in that same condition and only dealing with other peoples 'once a year on Christmas' fires.
Adios Pantalones said:
Well I think that just about says it all . . . well that and the comment about also having house fires for years too.
I too have heard of old timers stuffing hay into the chimney and touching it off . . . and the old diesel fuel trick . . . but as for me and my house I just feel a bit safer taking the 5 minutes to run the brush up through the chimney . . . something that folks have also been doing for decades since this seems to work pretty darned well, doesn't get the neighbors all concerned since there's no 3-foot tall flame coming out of the top of the chimney and/or hot ashes raining down like Pompei II and on top of that I'm pretty sure I've never heard of anyone who has had to call the Fire Department for an out of control chimney brushing vs. folks calling the FD for an out of control chimney fire.
Last thought . . . in my humble opinion . . . there are no shortcuts for doing a job . . . any job . . . right . . . or maybe I should say right and safe.
600 degree flue pipe doesn't sound hot at all to me. Pouring diesel fuel down a one inch hole surrounded by creosote sounds like you need to upgrade your home insurance.
Chettt said:
LMAO
!Get a brush! If it's so plugged you can't run a brush down the flue try to clean it more often.
BrotherBart said:
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
I know a few of those guys.
I got a buddy who works for the township and picked up a stove on the curbside and hooked it up himself. He has had the fire department out twice!
My name is Bubba... I prefer to use a brush!
akhilljack said:
With all due respect akhilljack, I have a few words about your post.
1. I have been called an old timer more than once so I do feel qualified to give these answers.
2. Maybe a few old-timers followed your method, however, since my youth I have known only a very, very few who use or have used this method. Outside of this forum, I've known only two.
3. Perhaps your Osburn stove is a whole lot different than many others or perhaps you are not operating it correctly (please excuse if this seems harsh as it is not meant to be). On our stove we can get the stove top to 600 degrees with the flue temperature barely over 300 degrees. This seems the opposite of what you are getting. Perhaps we close the draft earlier on our stove.
4. Your father-in-law's stove never gets above 400 degrees
His pipe gets considerably hotter and his flames can shoot right up the pipe! (Exclamation points are mine.) OMG But then, perhaps you and he run your stoves the same way. Leave that draft wide open and this is what you will get; stove cooler than need be and pipe hotter than need be.In order to get that stove temperature higher all you should need to do is close that draft a bit. As an example, as stated above, we can run our stove at 600 degrees and the pipe will be barely over 300 degrees. Closing the draft part way is the key no matter whether you have a cat or non-cat stove and no matter if you have a 20 year old stove or a 1 year old stove.
5. Where you state: "burning fire in homes has been around for hundreds of years and could be considered an art. with all the fancy techno-crap i think the skill and the art of fire burning has been lost to the previous generations like many other things like the value of a little hard work."
You make it sound as though you have a problem with the newer stoves. Why? Is it just because of the way your father-in-law taught you? Or perhaps you are afraid of something new or learning something new?
The skill and art of fire burning has not been lost to previous generations at all. Nor has hard work been lost. You will find many very knowledgeable people on this forum when it comes to burning wood stoves. You will also find many who actually know how to light those fires. And you will also find many on this forum who not only do work hard, but many relish the time that they do work hard. In my opinion, trying to clean a chimney by burning sounds more like forgetting the value of hard work. It is taking the lazy man's way instead of the safe and sane way.
As it states in my signature, I have been burning wood stoves for more than just a year or two. Even in my youth (back in the 40's) I heard very, very rarely about burning hot to get rid of soot and creosote. Even back then most folks shuddered to hear about people doing that. Do you really want to take the chance of a bad fire? Do you really want to chance not starting something other than your own home on fire?
As for me and my house we will refrain from chimney fires and attempting to "clean" a chimney with fire. Brushes are cheap and it is not a long time-consuming job to use them and it is much, much safer.
Once again, I hope this post is not taken wrongly. If I have worked it to sound harsh, that was not my intention. My intention was to hopefully make it a little more clear to someone who is newer to burning and hopefully keep them from making a silly mistake.
Good luck to you.
oilstinks said:
I don't want to get into a long, drawn-out argument, but a few comments. I can't speak about the guy and system you just mentioned. But, I know many wood burners including people who have heated with wood for 80 years, that intentionally start chimny fires a few times per winter - to keep the chimney safe from unexpected and uncontrolled fires. It can be done safely, and is done safely with certain systems with certain controls. I do it. If you heat full time with wood, and don't want to have to do a complete shut-down to clean a chimney mid-winter, intentionally causing a fire will get the worst volatiles out of the chimney. Basically, same mentality as a "controlled brush fire" that fire departments do. Better a controlled fire - than an unexpected out-of-control fire. I don't care what sort of "efficient" furnace or stove you have, they all leave deposits when used full time, all winter, night and day.
But, like I said, the system has to be built to handle and control it. Chances are, if your friend has metal parts turing orange or cherry red, he's asking for trouble.
Please forgive me as there was one more point I wished to make.
Where you state, "...all those baffles and crap so you can blaze the stove and it all goes up your chimeny."
If you do some studying, you will find that with all those baffles and crap (whatever that is), it all does not go up the chimney. That is why I can burn my stove to 600 degrees or more and not get my chimney hot. Remember, my chimney temperature runs much lower than the stove temperature. Therefore, the heat stays in the house and not the chimney. And we also can burn our stove at more than 400 degrees. btw, how do you know the temperature of your father-in-law's stove and chimney if you don't have those fancy temperature gauges and such...
Also please remember that these new stoves burn much, much cleaner so it is much better for the air we all have to breath.
Where you state, "...all those baffles and crap so you can blaze the stove and it all goes up your chimeny."
If you do some studying, you will find that with all those baffles and crap (whatever that is), it all does not go up the chimney. That is why I can burn my stove to 600 degrees or more and not get my chimney hot. Remember, my chimney temperature runs much lower than the stove temperature. Therefore, the heat stays in the house and not the chimney. And we also can burn our stove at more than 400 degrees. btw, how do you know the temperature of your father-in-law's stove and chimney if you don't have those fancy temperature gauges and such...
Also please remember that these new stoves burn much, much cleaner so it is much better for the air we all have to breath.
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