Hoping for some wisdom and guidance on wood stove purchase/install location

[SoloMamaBear]

Hi, I apologize if this is redundant. Normally I love to research but I'm quite short on time as of late and would love to hear from the experts. To summarize; I'm a solo mom living in NE Indiana in a 1200 sq ft ranch with a 1200 sq ft finished walkout basement (west facing with patio doors). The home is currently all electric with a heat pump. It's not the warmest or most efficient heat and I fear it may really struggle if we get a harsh winter. Last year (my first winter in the home) I kept the thermostat at 63 degrees (colder when traveling) and my electric bill was still in $3-400's. I am unable to get a propane tank at this point and unsure if that is even the route I'd want to go. I'm leaning heavily towards a wood stove that I could place in the NW corner of the basement with the option of venting it out the exterior wall and run it out & up two stories (on the west side of the home) or a little more than a single story out that north wall (that would require going through concrete). The west side feels like it would be more work since it would be harder to access the west facing wall since the entire basement level is exposed where if it runs out the north side I could lean a ladder against the house and have good access to all the venting. There is no existing chimney in the home hence the wood stove vs insert. I have a few questions and would greatly appreciate any feedback.

-Am I crazy to think I can find a wood stove and get it installed before winter sets in? (edited to add - I will call around the area tomorrow to see if there is any availability. Jan/Feb is an option because I could supplement with space heaters until then.)
-Would you install it on N or W wall? I've attached photos of each if that helps. I can't get them to upload vertically even though they are saved that way. I apologize for that. I drew a circle to give an appropriate location for venting coming out of the home.
-For that square footage is there a stove size/brand you'd recommend? I read that Jotuls have some that aren't as hot which would be a bonus with children. I'd also like a glass door for viewing.
-Will I have to load wood in the night? I go to bed around 10:30/11 and I'm up at 6:30.-Lastly, I have zero experience with wood stoves but I'm a hard worker, quick learn and intelligent. If I go through with this I'll read up on what I need to do to responsibly burn but am I biting off more than I can chew? I already found about a cord of oak I'm going to pick up that's 3-4 years old. I will get more for this winter and then I'm hoping to slowly start splitting my own (I have family that has acreage).

I know more questions will follow but I did want to throw this out there before I put in the work of picking up this wood tomorrow or Wednesday. Thank you in advance for your time.

 

[begreen]

You may be able to find a stove at a big box store or maybe a local dealer. The only way to know is to call around. A 2 cu ft stove should suffice. Home Depot sells the model 15-W03. The Drolet Escape 1800 or the True North TN20 would work as would several other stoves in this size range.

Are you thinking of installing and cleaning this yourself?

 

[SoloMamaBear]

You may be able to find a stove at a big box store or maybe a local dealer. The only way to know is to call around. A 2 cu ft stove should suffice. Home Depot sells the model 15-W03. The Drolet Escape 1800 or the True North TN20 would work as would several other stoves in this size range.

Are you thinking of installing and cleaning this yourself?

Thanks for your input on the stoves; I will check those out! l plan on calling around tomorrow to see if there is anything available locally.

I assume the install is out of my wheelhouse. I have a decent amount of home renovation experience but this feels beyond my capabilities. I will clean it myself. I read the exterior pipe allows for easier access.

 

[begreen]

It depends on the stove, but many here remove the baffle and clean straight up with a rotary brush, sold as the Sooteater. Straight up drafts better and cleaner because the majority of the piping is in the warm house envelope. But whether this works depends on the house floorplan and stove location.

What is the budget? Do you know when the available wood was split and stacked?

 

[SoloMamaBear]

It depends on the stove, but many here remove the baffle and clean straight up with a rotary brush, sold as the Sooteater. Straight up drafts better and cleaner because the majority of the piping is in the warm house envelope. But whether this works depends on the house floorplan and stove location.

What is the budget? Do you know when the available wood was split and stacked?

Regarding the Sooteater, how high up does it extend? How often does this need to be cleaned out? I assume installing it on the north side would be beneficial for a shorter pipe overall?

The available wood is oak and I was told it's about 3-4 years old. I didn't ask when he officially split it. I will take my moisture meter when I go to pick it up.

Budget is tough. I tend to be as frugal as I can but believe in spending a little more when it's worth it and if it feels necessary. I think spending smarter might be wise at this point since I'm inexperienced. I hate to invest and hate it although I suspect I'm going to enjoy it. After doing a quick read the Drolet Escape seemed to have some positive reviews.

 

[Poindexter]

I don't know your local prices, but local to me (an expensive place) plan on $5k for chimney install and wood stove purchase before you set the first piece of wood alight. Are you staying in this house or likely to move in the next five years?

The first two years of woodburning are the hardest, usually by the third winter a new burner has their system dialed in.

Ideally (my opinion) the stove should be installed on the level where you spend the most time, straight chimney with no elbows or bends, chimney inside the insulation envelope as much as possible, and chimney should pierce the roof as near the peak as practical.

It looks like you have room to store 8 cords of wood, which is the minimum I suggest. Seems like in general burners in the lower 48 go through about four cords per year, but those hardwoods down there take 2 summer to get dry. Can you get about 20 pallets to store your wood on so it isn't laying on the ground?

Get the one cord of dry oak up on pallets while you are figuring this out, get it top covered.

Once you have ten pallets layed out somewhere for "this year's wood" (good luck, no offense), get your next ten pallets laid out and go looking for green pine, green spruce and green fir, four cords of it. Get that split and stacked on pallets 11-20 by New Years or so and you will be good enough for next winter, those will dry in one summer. You might even get freshly felled pine for free, lots of folks who don't know any better don't like it. Pine is a new burner's best friend, because it will typically dry in one summer if split, stacked off the ground, and covered on top.

It is very very difficult to have seasoned fire wood delivered. Lots and lots of vendors offer it for sale, and they will be happy to take your money, the cookie crumbles when the buyer sticks a moisture meter in the product. Once you have your four cords of pine for next winter up you won't have to deal with those shysters anymore. Fill up pallets 1-10 with green hardwood, to start burning in Sept 2023.

My observation is it generally takes about 5 years starting from a new install for a homeowner to break even on chimney install and stove purchase with actual energy savings. Given current energy prices that may be a shorter window this time around.

How old are your kids? It might make sense to look at a pellet stove - the chimney install is possible something you could handle yourself. Check pricing on actual pellets first. One ton of pellets (replacing 8 cords of pine) 'should' heat 1200 sqft without too much trouble for at least one winter and possible two if the weater is mild and your insulation is pretty good. The best time to buy pellets up here is May for August delivery.

 

[SoloMamaBear]

My previous comment is awaiting approval but I'd planned on checking the wood with my moisture meter before purchasing it for this season. Thanks for the tip on putting the oak on pallets. The wood is only $80 although we do all the hauling and loading/unloading. I'm not out much if this doesn't pan out. There is someone locally that also claims I can get a couple cords delivered for around $270 total. I know I have to be leery. That being said, I was going to supplement with it this winter and then work on next years supply. I am on 2.5 acres so I have plenty of space to store the wood. I'm also cutting down a couple dead ash trees this winter as well as 2 dying blue spruce. I have a fifth tree but I'll need to hire it out as it's very tall and next to my house. Additionally my late husbands mother lives on 90 acres about 15 minutes from me. She has a decent percentage (~25%) of woods at her place I'd have access to. I could store wood there and bring it over as needed.

I hope to stay in this house at least the next five years if not longer. But, life is unpredictable. Life has given the unexpected at this point. I have 5 kids, youngest just turned 7 and oldest just turning 16 so I do have little hands that can help. I've considered the pellet stove but I don't love the dependency on electricity/generator and it doesn't seem pellets have a very long shelf life unless I'm misunderstanding.

I appreciate the input on keeping the chimney inside but I'm pretty limited with that because of the finished square footage and no place I can think to hide the venting. Is having that elbow outside and up the side of the house a terrible idea? I have seen where people have done it. What's the advantage of having it near the peak? Snow loads? I didn't want to put it on my first floor because the basement gets so cold and I'm afraid it would heat me out of the house - I prefer my home around 65 degrees. We have a much larger family room downstairs so we tend to hang out a lot down there in the winter (puzzles, movies, reading). My laundry is also down there. For what it's worth, the old & large stone fireplace is down there but the chimney was removed. I originally started the plan to put in ventless gas logs down there but as mentioned - propane isn't as easy to come by these days. Also, I like the idea of being more self-sustainable. At my last place we had a huge garden and chickens.

Thanks again for any & all input. I really appreciate it as I'm a bit ignorant here.

 

[tabner]

I think you can make this work. If you're going to have someone else install it anyways, you should be able to get them out there to take a look, offer suggestions, and quote it. Ideally, you'd have a couple places quote/look. Ask them how far out their scheduling these projects right now.
If you go the cement wall, I think you will be paying more. Drilling a hole that large through cement is a bit of a project and requires special tools, I think most installers are going to shy away from it, or mark up the quote big time. (this isn't to say you shouldn't do it, just wanted to mention).
But with that said, I think overall your plan is doable. Might be a little tight to get much benefit this winter, but in the long run, with older children to help, and planning to stay in the home a long time, it could make sense.

 

[EbS-P]

Three thoughts. First is how old is your heatpump? Second how well sealed is your building envelope? And can you improve sealing and insulation easily? Last venting a budget stove can cost as much as the stove (or more) are you ready to spend 4-6000$?

2nd point first. Air sealing is relatively cheap. 1000sq ft of r30 batts is about $500 foam is 5$ a can 600$ and a weekends worth of work can make a big difference. I’m going to do it this month or next I’ve put it off too long…. Somebody hold me to it!

1st point. A heat pump is really quite efficient down to about 25 degrees. Upgrading to a 18-20 Seer unit saves money in the summer and winter. Chances are if your unit is more than 15 years old it’s just makes sense to replace soon. Ten years or less keep on running it.

Lastly I really like my wood stove. It was a splurge (both of them). My schedule really lets me burn a smaller stove 24/7 if I want to. But it takes time splitting and stacking and gathering wood takes time.

With stove supply really tight right now Don’t make a huge compromise just to get one this winter. How many winters have you been in this house? What one more! Don’t forget that you need a good wood storage plan /system. Shed racks ect.

 

[Poindexter]

The thing about modern stoves is they can burn very very cleanly, so the exhaust gas isn't very hot compared to 40-50 years ago even.

Some of the efficiency gains are from burning the wood more completely, but some of them are from lowering the temperature of the exhaust plume - thereby keeping more heat in the house. When the exhaust gets cool enough, the steam and water vapor in the exhaust plume start condensing on the inside of your pipe, smoke particles stick to the wet area, and now you are making creosote.

Both elbows in the pipe and pipe running up the exterior of the house will cool off quicker, or require you to burn more wood faster to keep the chimney gasses warm. Or you can brush your chimney more often.

If you are committed to wood heat you might get four cords of pine split and stacked this winter first, then four cords of hardwood split and stacked before spring thaw have a backordered wood stove installed in May 2022 and skip 80% of the headaches new burners face.

I have no idea how long pellets can be stored. I know they have to be kept dry, but beyond that no personal experience with them.

And EbS-P is absoutely correct about airsealing. It doesn't matter what kind of energy you use to heat, oil, electric, natural gas, wood, solar, doesn't matter. Air leaks cost money.

 

[kennyp2339]

A thing to consider is a chimney on the north side of the house, that is usually the coldest side and wind prone side during the winter months, this could lead to issues with stack effect (most noticeable when first lighting the stove and not having enough draft), to being severe enough that as the stove enters the coaling stage of the fire is can let co seep back into the basement. I'd prefer west wall or inside envelope chimney.
Plus since its the west side & walk out you can install an outside air connection (OAK) / fresh air kit to mitigate draft reversal / burn outside air rather then using house air which has to get made up (cold air enters the house)
Install will be easier on the west side because no concrete needs to be cut or chipped out and the soffit looks smaller, so you can use 30 deg bends to jog around vs cutting the soffit to go up, either way when ordering the through the wall kit, you will also want a chimney roof support bracket. If your not comfortable going up on the roof to clean, have the cap riveted so you can use the soot eater without worry of knocking the cap off when cleaning.
Take note of the existing basement floor, it should be a slab concrete, but is there's laminate flooring down it will need to be cut out to allow for tile or bare concrete using the clearance dimensions given for the stove.

 

[SoloMamaBear]

Three thoughts. First is how old is your heatpump? Second how well sealed is your building envelope? And can you improve sealing and insulation easily? Last venting a budget stove can cost as much as the stove (or more) are you ready to spend 4-6000$?

2nd point first. Air sealing is relatively cheap. 1000sq ft of r30 batts is about $500 foam is 5$ a can 600$ and a weekends worth of work can make a big difference. I’m going to do it this month or next I’ve put it off too long…. Somebody hold me to it!

1st point. A heat pump is really quite efficient down to about 25 degrees. Upgrading to a 18-20 Seer unit saves money in the summer and winter. Chances are if your unit is more than 15 years old it’s just makes sense to replace soon. Ten years or less keep on running it.

Lastly I really like my wood stove. It was a splurge (both of them). My schedule really lets me burn a smaller stove 24/7 if I want to. But it takes time splitting and stacking and gathering wood takes time.

With stove supply really tight right now Don’t make a huge compromise just to get one this winter. How many winters have you been in this house? What one more! Don’t forget that you need a good wood storage plan /system. Shed racks ect.

I’m unsure of the age of my heat pump. Last time I was in the attic (a couple months ago) I could not find a date stamp anywhere. If someone has a suggestion on where to find it I’d love input.

Regarding insulation the only access I have is in the attic. The basement is completely finished. I suppose I could put more insulation in the attic but where else would I put it? I’m familiar with the foam spray. I used it when remodeling my last house but at the time I had access to all the studs and window frames. In this case they’re all trimmed out?

Thanks for the input and the reminder of setting up storage and the planning ahead.

 

[SoloMamaBear]

Thanks again to all for your input. I had a guy come out today and he quoted $5000 for just install of the woodstove, $5800 if he did the hearth. I think this is more than I want to invest at this time. Also, I have ruled out messing with the north side of the house and after further research it sounds like I might be better off keeping it on the main floor so the chimney/venting will be on the interior and out the roof as opposed to the exterior. I liked the idea of having it in the basement so I could walk out and get the wood. Plus there is only one vent running down there from the heat pump so it gets a little chilly. As I prepare and give this more thought another option is to lease a propane tank this winter and use some logs or a wall heater to supplement if the temps get extra cold. I got lucky last year with a more mild winter.

Again, any tips on insulation I’m happy to hear. I think for now I’ll pause any impulse decisions on a wood stove but consider some back up plans for this winter in the event I lose power or the heat pump can’t keep up.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[begreen]

another option is to lease a propane tank this winter and use some logs

Is there a fireplace?

 

[Poindexter]

Again, any tips on insulation I’m happy to hear.

I was shocked, gobsmacked, to find on my "state of the art" 1980 build up here had none, zero , zip , nada of the windows and doors had spray insulation between the window/door frames and the house framing. Buying the correct spray foam insulation, the more expensive kind for windows and doors, paid for itself in about a week with lower utility usage.

Start with bare hands around the window frames in cold weather. Once you find three windows with cold leaking out from under the interior window trim, buy one can of the spray foam for window and doors you identified, take off the interior trim, spray to about 50% full (the stuff expands a LOT), let it cure, trim off the excess, reinstall the interior trim.

All those spray products will cure better, seal better, if you spray them in above +50dF. IIRC I found four bad enough to do in cold weather, the rest I marked with blue chalk in cold weather and then did during the warm months.

Do what you have to do to preserve the existing window trim. If it takes you two or three hours to take off exisiting trim without wrecking it, that is much faster than making new window trim.

I am looking sriously at indoor air quality at my place now. Go ahead and seal your place up like a tupperware (tm) to lower your utility bills, the indoor air quality cavalry is en route.

 

[EbS-P]

If someone has a suggestion on where to find it I’d love input.

Regarding insulation the only access I have is in the attic. The basement is completely finished. I suppose I could put more insulation in the attic but where else would I put it?

Look for a tag on the outside unit. As far as insulation goes air seal can be just as important. Windows doors any fixture that stick through the ceiling into the attic, and outlets/ switches on exterior walls. My initial thought was the attic. If you have access it’s easier and cheaper than most Other insulation projects.

When was the last time the heatpump/Ac was serviced? For 100-150$ service call it’s probably worth it if hasn’t been done in a year. Tell them you don’t think it’s heating enough. I’m now asking for before and after pictures of my coil. I think I had a couple annual service calls that skipped cleaning it. This is really important if you have pets. Could be a simple as your electric heat strips are not working (this happened to us and it toook two or three cold winters for me to figure out something was wrong).

Last don’t rule out a pellet stove. Costco has a Drolet pellet (and wood stove) in stock. Two reason. Venting is much easier and they are more convenient (this matters more you have have a really busy life).

Evan

 

[SoloMamaBear]

I was shocked, gobsmacked, to find on my "state of the art" 1980 build up here had none, zero , zip , nada of the windows and doors had spray insulation between the window/door frames and the house framing. Buying the correct spray foam insulation, the more expensive kind for windows and doors, paid for itself in about a week with lower utility usage.

Start with bare hands around the window frames in cold weather. Once you find three windows with cold leaking out from under the interior window trim, buy one can of the spray foam for window and doors you identified, take off the interior trim, spray to about 50% full (the stuff expands a LOT), let it cure, trim off the excess, reinstall the interior trim.

All those spray products will cure better, seal better, if you spray them in above +50dF. IIRC I found four bad enough to do in cold weather, the rest I marked with blue chalk in cold weather and then did during the warm months.

Do what you have to do to preserve the existing window trim. If it takes you two or three hours to take off exisiting trim without wrecking it, that is much faster than making new window trim.

I am looking sriously at indoor air quality at my place now. Go ahead and seal your place up like a tupperware (tm) to lower your utility bills, the indoor air quality cavalry is en route.

Thanks for the tips. We have some nights in the 30s in the forecast so I’ll mark the windows then.

 

[SoloMamaBear]

Look for a tag on the outside unit. As far as insulation goes air seal can be just as important. Windows doors any fixture that stick through the ceiling into the attic, and outlets/ switches on exterior walls. My initial thought was the attic. If you have access it’s easier and cheaper than most Other insulation projects.

When was the last time the heatpump/Ac was serviced? For 100-150$ service call it’s probably worth it if hasn’t been done in a year. Tell them you don’t think it’s heating enough. I’m now asking for before and after pictures of my coil. I think I had a couple annual service calls that skipped cleaning it. This is really important if you have pets. Could be a simple as your electric heat strips are not working (this happened to us and it toook two or three cold winters for me to figure out something was wrong).

Last don’t rule out a pellet stove. Costco has a Drolet pellet (and wood stove) in stock. Two reason. Venting is much easier and they are more convenient (this matters more you have have a really busy life).

Evan

I already checked the outside unit as well. No go on any date codes.

Good call on switches on exterior walls as well as my light fixtures. I’ll check them out at some point.

I am supposed to be getting my unit serviced this week. He was going to check for the filters but I haven’t heard back from him. I will call and check in with him again. Last year my auxiliary heat would kick on frequently and once in a while even the emergency heat even though it was only one degree lower than what the thermostat was set at.

I appreciate the push for the pellet stove. I keep going back to that for ease of install (compared to the wood stove) as well as the ease of pellets vs wood. It seems wood stoves are a ton of work. I admire it and love the thought of keeping up with it but caring for five kids alone is a huge time suck between feeding them healthy and keeping up on the house and laundry.

 

[EbS-P]

I already checked the outside unit as well. No go on any date codes.

Good call on switches on exterior walls as well as my light fixtures. I’ll check them out at some point.

I am supposed to be getting my unit serviced this week. He was going to check for the filters but I haven’t heard back from him. I will call and check in with him again. Last year my auxiliary heat would kick on frequently and once in a while even the emergency heat even though it was only one degree lower than what the thermostat was set at.

I appreciate the push for the pellet stove. I keep going back to that for ease of install (compared to the wood stove) as well as the ease of pellets vs wood. It seems wood stoves are a ton of work. I admire it and love the thought of keeping up with it but caring for five kids alone is a huge time suck between feeding them healthy and keeping up on the house and laundry.

Our 5th is on the way. Mountains of laundry. Seems nearly equally quantity of food and dirty dishes.

Pellet stove on a programmable thermostat. Heck yeah!

 

[SoloMamaBear]

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the input. I am going to go with a pellet stove for backup or perhaps main heat source in addition to my heat pump. I feel better about my decision at this point after getting some feedback from those of you with experience. I will move on over to the pellet stove section to learn about install.