hot super 27

[thinwirenail]

OK, so the new Super 27 is up and running - but running too well, it seems. Once lit and burning with a full load, the new Condor Inferno stovetop thermometer consistently registers around 600° (just shy of too hot) and the admittedly 25 year-old Condor stovepipe thermometer consistently reads 400°+, also just short of too hot - and this is with the air intake full down and a flue damper (which appears to make little or no difference) fully closed. Inside the stove, that stainless baffle seems to have warped somewhat, the center arching off the back support bar by about 3/16". I'm concerned about a chimney fire, which I wouldn't know how to put out since the air can't be fully shut off (I guess a fire retardant purchase is in order?), and am wondering if this the way it is supposed to burn, and/or if there is something I can do to better control the temperature. (Wood size does not seem to be much a factor, and it's all cordwood).

Thanks for any responses - I'll be happy to provide any additional detail needed.

Brad

 

[pen]

Is this is a new installation or an existing unit?

If it's been around the block, perhaps you have an air leak around the door gasket. Have you done the dollar bill test to see if one is snug and doesn't pull through w/ little or no resistance if closed in the door in different places?

How tall is the chimney?

BTW, the numbers you mention aren't of concern yet. If you can't keep it under 700 to 725 on the stove top in the hottest spot, then we have something different to talk about (like some restriction of secondary air if you have a really strong draft with a tall chimney)

Does this happen with every load? Only when reloading on coals? How often are you loading? Putting full loads in or a few pieces here and there?

pen

 

[superbee69]

Brad, How tall is your chimney? I have about 28 ft of chimney which makes the 27 hard to slow down. Have you checked stove top temps with an IR gun to verify the inferno thermometer? If I close the air all the way down when the stove top hits about 350 I get a cruising top end temperature of 500-550.

 

[Sprinter]

From your previous posts, It sounds like this is a new stove. My secondary baffle looks pretty straight on the ledge. Is the pin that holds the baffle insert fully inserted? A new baffle should not be warped. Try putting a straight edge on it to confirm.

600 degree stove top with a full load of good, dry, wood sounds normal even with the air closed down. That's the way these stoves are happiest anyway. The question about stack height is a good one, though.

Do you really have a flue damper? It would be unusual if you need to use one. Maybe with a mega-draft situation, but not normally.

BTW, the air is never fully off. There is always some air to the fire and secondaries. I usually operate my 27 either fully down or maybe 1/2" off of bottom when cruising.

If you need less heat on warmer days, you can build a smaller fire. My fires are often 1/2 of a load on shoulder season days.

 

[thinwirenail]

Well, I confess I don't know the exact height of the chimney, but it's probably about 25', with two 90° bends from the stove to the chimney. It does happen every load, both with small loads and large, with loading intervals from maybe two to four or five hours. The stove is new, so I haven't done the dollar bill test, but it wouldn't hurt to try it anyway just to rule out the possibility. Pen, how can the secondary air be restricted, if it comes to that?

And sb69, thanks for the suggestion to close it down early, I haven't been doing that, and it's certainly worth a try. I don't have an IR gun, so I guess I can't vouch for the accuracy of the Inferno, although it does seem consistent with the flue thermometer - and my red, sweating face!

 

[Sprinter]

And sb69, thanks for the suggestion to close it down early, I haven't been doing that, and it's certainly worth a try.

The best way to operate is to shut the air down in stages. When the secondaries are going (usually a stove top of about 300 or when the chimney is no longer smoking), then start turning it down about 1/2 way, then halfway again maybe 5 minutes later until it's where you want to cruise. You'll learn how to get the most out of it with time.

 

[thinwirenail]

Thanks, Sprinter, I'll try that refinement - now that you mention it, I do remember reading (or maybe hearing) about that somewhere along the line.

Yes, I do have that damper in the flue - I put it in after seeing the temps, but, as I said, it seems to have little, if any, effect. I don't know how strong the draft is, but I have been using the stove in mild, calm weather, which, if my understanding is correct, are draft weakening conditions. I would have thought that, with the damper, would perhaps offset chimney length factors.

The baffle was flat on the ledge when new (and the pin all the way in), but warped to that approx 3/16 gap after the first burn. Maybe I overdid it the first time. Hopefully it's not having an ill effect on the performance now. And hopefully it's all just part of the learning curve moving from the old catalytic airtight to the new technology!

 

[Sprinter]

With the temperatures that you have mentioned so far, it's highly unlikely that you damaged the baffle. But if it is really warped, it may be worth it to verify the temps with an IR thermometer to reassure yourself about the thermometer readings.

Unless you have an unusually strong draft, you should normally not need to close that damper at all. A 25' flue with two 90's in it should not be causing excessively high draft unless there are other influences.

 

[Seanm]

I was concerned last year about a slight warp with my baffle and from what I understand (and read here) this is normal and hasn't affected my secondary burn. Where did you get the idea that 600F is to hot? was it from your stove top thermometer? All stoves are different and what might be right for one will not be right for another. I purchased one and after a week returned it to Canadian Tire and picked up an IR. This way you can check your walls around the stove, the stove top near the collar and your stove pipe coming out of your stove. I would almost pay more attention to the stove pipe if youre concerned about a chimney fire. That pipe with lots of air will rage far quicker than the stove if left unchecked. I make a habit of checking on the stove often during the first bit and as sprinter has said dial it down in increments to engage the secondaries. You will learn soon enough as we all have if you go a bit to far on close down. I found near the end of last year I was getting a leak from the door gasket so my installer redid it for me at no cost to me! (great bunch of people). Also if you have the model that has the ash clean out pack it full of ash and forget about it. These have been known to leak a bit. These stoves under normal working conditions can peak for a short while at over 700 and then settle down around 650 for a good burn so as others above have said this is ok. Cheers!

 

[Sprinter]

I'll bet that everything is normal for you. At close inspection, I can see a slight droop in my baffle, but it doesn't seem excessive at all. Seanm is right about the ash pan. Leave it closed. It can be a source of air leaks and really isn't that useful anyway.

Pen is right also. You may see an occasional peak to 700 by accident, but you should be able to control it well below that normally. Try to keep it no more than 650 to be safe and you'll be in good shape.

Here's a link to the IR thermometer I have. It's cheap assurance and dead accurate. There are others, of course. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NON-CONTACT...ITAL-THERMOMETER-SIGHT-HANDHELD-/130979214461

 

[Seanm]

I'll bet that everything is normal for you. At close inspection, I can see a slight droop in my baffle, but it doesn't seem excessive at all. Seanm is right about the ash pan. Leave it closed. It can be a source of air leaks and really isn't that useful anyway.

Pen is right also. You may see an occasional peak to 700 by accident, but you should be able to control it well below that normally. Try to keep it no more than 650 to be safe and you'll be in good shape.

Here's a link to the IR thermometer I have. It's cheap assurance and dead accurate. There are others, of course. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NON-CONTACT...ITAL-THERMOMETER-SIGHT-HANDHELD-/130979214461

I picked up the VIOT IRT 12A. As an interesting side note I picked one up for my dad who was here last year for Christmas. He doesn't burn but likes this kind of thing, you know how hot is the pavement when he walks the pooch, how cool are his walls in winter etc... so while he was here we compared his to mine and they were very accurate to each other.

 

[Sprinter]

He doesn't burn but likes this kind of thing

Yeah, they're a great gift for the gadgeteer...

 

[jeff_t]

The IR is also good for driving dogs crazy. And for making it easy to find the hot spot on your stove. My Spectrum's hottest spot is consistently way left of center, about a third of the back. It is always 50-100° more than the anywhere else on the top, at the peak of the burn.

I don't necessarily pay much attention to temps when starting to close the air down. With good, dry wood I have a raging fore in a very short time, and shut it down more by watching the fire. It seems happy to settle in around 600° with a full load.

The stove top heats up a lot quicker than the magnetic thermo can keep up.

 

[PA Fire Bug]

I've noticed a gap along the sides of the baffle as well. The first time that I saw it, I thought that something was wrong so I took the baffle out to take a closer look. On my stoves, the top of the baffle is only secured at one point near the center. There is some flexibility that may result in a gap near the front or the back.

 

[begreen]

The gap on the sides of the baffle is supposed to be filled by the kaowool strips on each side.

 

[Seann]

Hi all, I have a PE Super insert as well. It's my first season with it so still a lot of tinkering and learning on how to get the most optimal burn. I'm wondering if anyone could recommend the best place to attach my Condor magnetic thermometer? Currently I have it directly in the centre on the front wall (just above the door). Would it be more accurate on the top or elsewhere? I've been trying to keep it at 500 for my burns but it sounds like I'd be getting better efficiency at 600 and at that temp it's still plenty safe? Any advice is more than welcome - I'm a noob. Thanks!