How do companies measure ash?

[HOGG0494]

Hi again all,
Working on my pellet tests and am trying to figure out how the ash percentages are derived?most bags say less than .5 or .3.what exactly are they measuring and how?i burned a bag of okie platniums,took all the ash and put it all in a zip lock bag,it weighed 2.1 oz. and had a volume measure of 8.4 oz.the okie bag said ash .3 content
I see a few of the comparison tests online for pellets and they show ash weight percentage.i would think we want to see ash volume percentage.i dont care what the ash weighs,i want to know how much of it there is.
50lb of lead will fit in my ash pan
50lb of feathers woun't

 

[railfanron]

How about this. The Okies are .3% ash which figures out to 2.4 oz. per bag so there within specs. Now weigh the empty ash pan and record the weight. Then burn the same pellets until the ash pan is full. Weigh it and subtract the empty weight. Take the weight in ounces you have left and divide it by the 2.1 this will tell you how many bags will fit in. A little more math will give you a chart based on the percentage of ash displayed on other brands with different ash percentages.
Ron

 

[3650]

they probably use a muffle furnace in a lab. Much more control that way.

 

[ScotL]

Third party labs are used. They use muffle furnaces. It takes too long waiting for their results so it also has to tested in an on-site lab several times per day.
The MAX5000 from AZI works well. (broken link removed to http://www.azic.com/computrac/max-5000xl/)

 

[HOGG0494]

Ok.but the question i have is there a formula to use.example The okie ash weighed 2.1 oz. but took up 8 oz. of space in a measuring cup Turman also weighed 2.1 oz but only took up 2.0 oz. of space in the measuring cup.so what would the formula be to show although they both weighed the same,oakie's ash should show 4x the percentage.example Oakie ash 40% Turman 10%

 

[ScotL]

Ash is always % by weight. Same as moisture and fines.

 

[Old Spartan]

Because, as your example shows, different "blends" have different characteristics there is likely no equation that would work across all blends for the purposes of volume.

I am not a math guru however so my deduction may be in error.

 

[HOGG0494]

ok.guess i am getting to involved,but that's how i am with everything,i have to dissect something new and break it down so i see exactly how it works.guess best way to test what i am looking for is burn one bag,get a volume measurement then divide that by the total volume the ash pan holds.whalla,theres my percentage
don't see what importance pellet company's ash percentage is on the bag.it only makes it misleading.if i burn 2 different brands of pellets and the ash weight is 60 oz. after 10 bags,but one overflows my ash pan and the other only leaves my pan 1/2 full,i wouldn't know until i burn them.yet when you purchase both brands you think they will have the same ash amount if they list the same ash weight on their bag.why can't pellet co. list the ash by volume not weight?

if i go to a gas station to fill up and the station only lists gas by weight not gallons,what good does that do me to know how much i need?

 

[Old Spartan]

The do not list the same AMOUNT of ash. They list a percentage by weight and claim to be less than the stated amount.

Like gasoline you purchase the product before burning and when you buy a gallon you are buying 6 pounds which exists in a space of .1336 cubic feet. When you buy 40 pounds of pellets you are buying a cubic foot. The raw good is consistant in both cases.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Maate get over yourself.
They measure by weight period.

AMEN, chickenman. This guy just doesn't get it. I hate to see him in the kitchen!

Just burn the darn pellets and throw out the ash for crying out loud! The % is going to change constantly anyway depending on whether the last tree in was an oak or a sweet gum!

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

ok.guess i am getting to involved,but that's how i am with everything,i have to dissect something new and break it down so i see exactly how it works.guess best way to test what i am looking for is burn one bag,get a volume measurement then divide that by the total volume the ash pan holds.whalla,theres my percentage
don't see what importance pellet company's ash percentage is on the bag.it only makes it misleading.if i burn 2 different brands of pellets and the ash weight is 60 oz. after 10 bags,but one overflows my ash pan and the other only leaves my pan 1/2 full,i wouldn't know until i burn them.yet when you purchase both brands you think they will have the same ash amount if they list the same ash weight on their bag.why can't pellet co. list the ash by volume not weight?

if i go to a gas station to fill up and the station only lists gas by weight not gallons,what good does that do me to know how much i need?

You are right. Volume is all that matters but weight is the simplest to figure out so that is what we get. There are a lot of variables with ash volume which makes it unreliable, and is one of the reasons people view pellet quality differently. For example, one person could end up with most ash in the pan. Another could get lose a greater percentage out of the flue (or in) depending on stove design and draft.
Try before you buy significant quantities is the best recommendation.

 

[HOGG0494]

guess you guys are right.just lump ash output into 3 catagories.low-medium-high after you burn them,and don't pay any attention to what the bags say

 

[tjnamtiw]

guess you guys are right.just lump ash output into 3 catagories.low-medium-high after you burn them,and don't pay any attention to what the bags say

That pretty well sums it up! What's on the bag is a best guess snapshot of whatever wood was being processed when the sample was taken. Look at 'Fancy Strawberry Preserves'. Did you ever see 'Sloppy Strawberry Preserves'? Super Platinum Premium Pellets fall into that marketing BS.

 

[SidecarFlip]

That pretty well sums it up! What's on the bag is a best guess snapshot of whatever wood was being processed when the sample was taken. Look at 'Fancy Strawberry Preserves'. Did you ever see 'Sloppy Strawberry Preserves'? Super Platinum Premium Pellets fall into that marketing BS.

After my cousin worked at Smuckers in Toledo for a few years, I can tell you with all honesty, there is no fancy strawberry preserves. It's all the same crap and what falls on the floor gets put back in the mixer too. I sometimes wonder what the insect content is as well......

 

[tjnamtiw]

After my cousin worked at Smuckers in Toledo for a few years, I can tell you with all honesty, there is no fancy strawberry preserves. It's all the same crap and what falls on the floor gets put back in the mixer too. I sometimes wonder what the insect content is as well......

The FDA has specs for maximum allowed insect matter and rat hair/droppings, believe it or not.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I learned something, never heard of a muffle furnace before tonight. I fugured they burned a set amount of fuel in a pan, and measured the ash volume compared to the fuel volume and then labelled 50,000 bags accordingly.

Thats what I'd do.

 

[BrotherBart]

I learned something, never heard of a muffle furnace before tonight. I fugured they burned a set amount of fuel in a pan, and measured the ash volume compared to the fuel volume and then labelled 50,000 bags accordingly.

Thats what I'd do.

Just like stove testing. I was at a plant one day while they were hand building the stove to be sent to be EPA tested. Not one dragged off of the line that Marty with the hangover welded. Just like the cars etc tested. Not rated for what it will do. Rated for what it can do.

Probably as good as we can expect. Otherwise it would cost more than we could ever afford.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just like stove testing. I was at a plant one day while they were hand building the stove to be sent to be EPA tested. Not one dragged off of the line that Marty with the hangover welded. Just like the cars etc tested. Not rated for what it will do. Rated for what it can do.

Probably as good as we can expect. Otherwise it would cost more than we could ever afford.

Having worked as a longshoreman for years on the great lakes waterfront as a fitter, I can relate to Marty real well. I'm suprised more lakes boats didn't sink.

Coincidentially, the firspellet stove I ever bought (an Englander 25 PDV analog 2 knob), when I plugged it in, the CA blower immediately locked up. I pulled the blower and found a nice birdsnest of welding wire inside..... must have been Marty at work.

 

[BrotherBart]

I spent 40 years keeping customers from kicking the crap out of my "Martys". So they chose to kick the crap out of me.

 

[tjnamtiw]

When I lived near the nuclear power plants being built in Limerick, Pa, I shared brews with the high class welders working on the nuke piping on many occasion. They were proud to brag about the bad welds they purposely made so the xray guys at night could find them. That way they could spend the next day getting paid to grind them out and reweld them! Good ole Union labor at its finest. Thank heavens these weren't the same a-holes welding my boat! Or were they???
Maybe there's a reason no nuclear sub ever had a nuclear accident!

 

[BrotherBart]

That way they could spend the next day getting paid to grind them out and reweld them!

Dream on. You think the same guys didn't build the subs. Thank the x-ray guys for you still being alive,.

Hey Bio and Lake, how long ya gonna let this one drift? Hammering wandering mods is a good thing too.

 

[Lake Girl]

Want a slap up the side of the head or a lock-down?

 

[SXIPro]

When I lived near the nuclear power plants being built in Limerick, Pa, I shared brews with the high class welders working on the nuke piping on many occasion. They were proud to brag about the bad welds they purposely made so the xray guys at night could find them. That way they could spend the next day getting paid to grind them out and reweld them! Good ole Union labor at its finest. Thank heavens these weren't the same a-holes welding my boat! Or were they???
Maybe there's a reason no nuclear sub ever had a nuclear accident!

Sums up Unions to a T.

 

[Lake Girl]

To further your conversation on welds, subs & whatever, try starting a thread in the Inglenook

https://www.hearth.com/talk/forums/the-inglenook.20/ JIC you didn't realize there is a forum for shooting the breeze!!