How exactly do I connect this stove to the flue?

[Yeshwant91]

I'm buying a Jotul F3 CB this Saturday (thanks for all your help with that decision). So excited

Our masonry chimney is lined by a 8" SS liner that then connects to a 6" reducer. The reducer breaches the chimney wall to enter the room. Unfortunately the mason pointed the crimped end of the reducer away from the stove into the liner. Nothing to do about that now, it's been bricked into the chimney and the creosote/ water will drip into the brick or inside the chimney, I suppose.

The height of the stove is 28". The center of the reducer is at 38" height (if pointing out straight into the room) and 36" when pointing downward at 45 degrees (it can be adjusted some by swiveling it).
I would like to connect either a 45 degree or 90 degree elbow to complete the connection between the reducer and the stove. The elbow is about 8" height (to the center of the opening).

My questions are:
1. The elbows available at Lowe's, etc. can they be adjusted to be 45 or 90 degrees?
2. Where do I find a trim collar and how do I attach it to the tile behind the stove?
3. What do I do if the elbow does not reach all the way to the stove? What can I use to complete the connection (about 2" short)?
4. Would I need to crimp both ends of the elbow so as to connect with the reverse installed reducer and the adapter that comes with the stove?
5. Do I need to seal the joints or just screw them? What kind of screws do I use?

Thanks all! Your help is invaluable. I am so looking forward to the stove!!

 

[cgeiger]

Yeshwant91 - are you installing onto a hearth pad and chimney or an actual fireplace. If the latter, I would recommend a T instead of an elbow so you have an easier time cleaning it out. Does your chimney have a clean out already?

As for your questions:

1. Elbows available at most hardware stores can be adjusted to 45 or 90 degrees but YMMV. Figure out what you need in advance before you go in case you're limited to the angle of the bend at the store.
2. Don't know
3. I used a single wall stovepipe connector on my F500. It connected my T to the collar (horizontal) on the back of the stove. It was crimped on both ends but I didn't figure it mattered since (others can correct me if I'm wrong) liquid creosote would drip down into the cleanout on the T long before it filled and dripped out the crimp in the connector.
4. Don't know for sure (depends on what's available to you) but probably. The elbows I've used aren't crimped at either end. You may be able to order something online.
5. It's always best to seal the joints. You can attach with self-tapping sheet metal screws. I don't recall the length I used but they couldn't have been more than a half inch.

 

[Yeshwant91]

Thanks blueridgelvr! The stove sits on a tile floor which is over concrete slab. Behind it is a soapstone tile wall. The soapstone tile was laid over cementboard that is held in place by metal studs. Behind the tile wall is the masonry chimney. The flue horizontally breaches the tile wall and connects with the liner inside the chimney. No fireplace.
The chimney does not have a clean out. It's an 'interior' chimney sandwiched between our house and the neighbors (these are attached houses). I'm not sure how I would fit a T above the stove. If I am top venting the stove, would the cleanout point upward? If I rear vent it, would I use a T and an elbow above it? Which brings me to the question of how others without Ts clean their chimneys?
Thanks!

 

[cgeiger]

You're welcome! Sounds like you have a pretty looking install going. Be sure to post some pics when you're done.

As for T and elbow or just elbow I'm afraid I can't comment on the best way to clean it as I come down a traditional chimney. I'm sure others in your situation can offer advice though so my post here should give you a bump.

Also, I reread your first post and I'm a bit concerned about the reducer having the wrong male/female orientation. The last thing you want is liquid creosote accumulating unseen inside your chimney. If that were to collect and start a fire you could have a major chimney fire and potentially life threatening situation for you and your neighbor. Here again, there are other folks here who have experience with your type of installation and can probably provide feedback there as well.

 

[oconnor]

You may be able to buy a crimper and crimp the exposed end of the liner to allow you to connect the pipe correctly - that would be better than leaving all the joints upside down - but;

Better yet would be to have the mason come back and do it right - creosote dripping into your brick flue would be bad (think about a fire outside your liner) - As well, your mason should have access to the wall shield for the thimble that should have been used where your liner penetrates the wall. Do you need an inspection of the final install by local authorities? Could cause some trouble if you do, and I'd hate to see that happen.

If you can, post a pick of the area in discussion (the flue connection) - could be you don't have a problem at all as far as the crimped end goes, and a pic should show it.

As for screwing the joints and connecting the pipe, you should be able to find stainless self tapping screws (3 or 4 per joint), and a long enough length of pipe to avoid a two inch splice. Your stove supplier should be able to get you those for next to nothing given that you just got the stove from them. If not, any hardware store should have the stainless screws and pipe - I'd avoid the "snap together" style with the seam running lengthwise - it can be hard to connect at times.

 

[Yeshwant91]

Wow! This is making me really nervous. I just got off the phone with the mason, who said that he had sealed the outside of the stainless steel liner with the metal / aluminum tape he always uses to prevent smoke from leaking through out and that there was little possibility of a leak. The stove place I spoke to said that having the crimped end away from the stove was fine (!)
What if I were to try and seal the area around the crimp with refractory cement? Would that prevent any possible leaks?
O'Connor, what do you mean by 'a long enough length of pipe to avoid a splice'? After the elbow, I only need 2 ", so I would have to use a 2" splice, isn' it?
I will post a pic when I get home and take one.

 

[DAKSY]

Hewy, Yeshwant91

I'm buying a Jotul F3 CB this Saturday (thanks for all your help with that decision). So excited

Good choice...one of Jotul's best designs...

Our masonry chimney is lined by a 8" SS liner that then connects to a 6" reducer. The reducer breaches the chimney wall to enter the room.

You sure there's not a stainless steel tee in there? An 8" chimney liner is IMPOSSIBLE to turn 90* inside any standard chimney tile...
Hell, a 6" won't turn on one!

Unfortunately the mason pointed the crimped end of the reducer away from the stove into the liner. Nothing to do about that now, it's been bricked into the chimney and the creosote/ water will drip into the brick or inside the chimney, I suppose.

Well, if you were simply to run the connector thru a masonry adapter & into the chimney, you'd wanna clear the inside of the masonry thimble by a minimum of 1" so that the creosote WOULD drop into the flue...
I'd crimp the outer end to fit my connector.

The height of the stove is 28". The center of the reducer is at 38" height (if pointing out straight into the room) and 36" when pointing downward at 45 degrees (it can be adjusted some by swiveling it).
I would like to connect either a 45 degree or 90 degree elbow to complete the connection between the reducer and the stove. The elbow is about 8" height (to the center of the opening).

I'd go get a 22 gage 90* SOLID elbow, & a 22 gage 6" D x 12" L section of connector & cut it to fit snugly into the stove & elbow...

My questions are:
1. The elbows available at Lowe's, etc. can they be adjusted to be 45 or 90 degrees?

Don't even go there...the stuff they sell at the big box home centers are 24 gage snap-together CRAP!
The adjustable elbows can also leak along the seams...
You've bought a high quality, clean burning, efficient stove...
Put high quality connector on it. You won't be sorry...

2. Where do I find a trim collar and how do I attach it to the tile behind the stove?

Your local hearth shop with have flat black collars & decorative brass & copper ones...
You can hold the black one in place with a bead of hi-temp black RTV...
Or you can tapcon it to the masonry...
The brass or the copper one s can be attached the same way, but may not look as good...
You MAY hafta get creative.

3. What do I do if the elbow does not reach all the way to the stove? What can I use to complete the connection (about 2" short)?

Like I indicated above, get your self a 12" length of connector & cut it to what ever size you need,
OR you could lift the stove 2" so that you wouldn't hafta cut
OR you could install the 3CB with the short leg kit & use a 4-1/4" piece of connector...

4. Would I need to crimp both ends of the elbow so as to connect with the reverse installed reducer and the adapter that comes with the stove?

Don't crimp the elbow...
You could either crimp the end coming out of the masonry or get a male-to-male adapter, which will probably give you a tighter fit...

5. Do I need to seal the joints or just screw them? What kind of screws do I use?

If your joints fit tightly, use the black sheet metal screws that come with your connector pipe...
If you've got some slop at your joints, use the screws & RTV...
You could even try hi-temp metal tape & paint it black...

Thanks all! Your help is invaluable. I am so looking forward to the stove!!

Just make sure you install it correctly & it'll give you years af trouble-free heat...
Good luck & post some pix when she's done!

 

[oconnor]

Wow! This is making me really nervous. I just got off the phone with the mason, who said that he had sealed the outside of the stainless steel liner with the metal / aluminum tape he always uses to prevent smoke from leaking through out and that there was little possibility of a leak. The stove place I spoke to said that having the crimped end away from the stove was fine (!)
What if I were to try and seal the area around the crimp with refractory cement? Would that prevent any possible leaks?
O'Connor, what do you mean by 'a long enough length of pipe to avoid a splice'? After the elbow, I only need 2 ", so I would have to use a 2" splice, isn' it?
I will post a pic when I get home and take one.

Sorry, I missed the 10" total rise. You are correct. That truly is a short run. I agree with DAKSY, the swivel elbows aren't much to work with - you can get stainless swivel elbows for liners, and they are much better built. Again, check with your stove store.

As for filling the gaps, you will find folks recommend lots of stuff, but most of it (metal tape, high temp silicone etc) won't take the temps of a flue. Seems to me most aluminum tape you'll find at the local big box taps out around 90*C, and high temp silicone has the temps listed on it - anything short of 1000*F won't last. Stove/refractory cement is your best bet - that said, you shouldn't need to seal most joints (reversed joint excepted). Your flue will suck air into any gaps, so smoke should never leak out a gap - your mason should know this.

looking forward to the pics. And don't get too nervous, lots of help around here to keep unneeded fear at bay.

Brent

 

[Yeshwant91]

[quote author="DAKSY" date="1232600940"]Hewy, Yeshwant91

Our masonry chimney is lined by a 8" SS liner that then connects to a 6" reducer. The reducer breaches the chimney wall to enter the room.

You sure there's not a stainless steel tee in there? An 8" chimney liner is IMPOSSIBLE to turn 90* inside any standard chimney tile...
Hell, a 6" won't turn on one!


Nope. These chimneys never had flue tile. The house is from 1840s. Just brick. There was creosote on it from all the years of burnng. Besides, the liner (where it turns) is in the old firebox, so there's plenty space there.



Well, if you were simply to run the connector thru a masonry adapter & into the chimney, you'd wanna clear the inside of the masonry thimble by a minimum of 1" so that the creosote WOULD drop into the flue...
I'd crimp the outer end to fit my connector.

Can you clarify please? My concern is that the liquid creosote will escape the liner reducer connection and drip out.

Thanks so much! I owe you all when this stove is up and running.

 

[DAKSY]

Nope. These chimneys never had flue tile. The house is from 1840s. Just brick. There was creosote on it from all the years of burnng. Besides, the liner (where it turns) is in the old firebox, so there's plenty space there.

So your mason blocked in the a woodburning fireplace & ran the reducer thru the block (or brick)?

Can you clarify please? My concern is that the liquid creosote will escape the liner reducer connection and drip out.

If the creosote drips down inside the old firebox, it's probably not that much of an issue...
There's probably not much of a chance of getting enough heat down there to cause ignition...
Standard connector pipe to masonry chimney installs WITHOUT liners have creosote (if any forms) dripping down into the flue below the thimble...
I'd say your install is pretty much similar...

 

[Yeshwant91]

So your mason blocked in the a woodburning fireplace & ran the reducer thru the block (or brick)?

Through the brick. The firebox was blocked a long time ago.
I'm not sure what the heck the FP was used for. My guess is that there was an old coal stove there that then sent heat up through an ancient duct system in the chimney flues into registers in the upstairs rooms. We find lumps of coal in our backyard all the time, probably because they used to deliver it there from an alley behind the house.
There were all manner of dampers to regulate this system. So there was a duct from the kitchen floor where the stove sat, to the second floor living room and then another duct from there to the bedroom. And I know these were ducts because they were at the bottom of the firebox, not where a flue would be at the top. Pretty dangerous, since the stove also probably sent carbon monoxide up with the heat.

Can you clarify please? My concern is that the liquid creosote will escape the liner reducer connection and drip out.

If the creosote drips down inside the old firebox, it's probably not that much of an issue...
There's probably not much of a chance of getting enough heat down there to cause ignition...
Standard connector pipe to masonry chimney installs WITHOUT liners have creosote (if any forms) dripping down into the flue below the thimble...
I'd say your install is pretty much similar...[/quote]

Thanks! I will still seal it up with the STOVO cement product that I discovered. And I thought I had a modern installation...

 

[Yeshwant91]

Stove/refractory cement is your best bet - that said, you shouldn't need to seal most joints (reversed joint excepted). Your flue will suck air into any gaps, so smoke should never leak out a gap - your mason should know this.


I am going to take it upon myself to educate him about this. I do think, like you guessed, that he was more concerned about smoke leaking out, and therefore reversed the connection. He is a good guy, and an excellent fireplace builder (he rebuilt my fireplace upstairs and lined the chimney and it drafts marvelously), but this may have been a little out of his area of expertise.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Easiest thing to do would be to crimp the end sticking out into the room... not that mean of a job unless it's really thick stainless. If it's real tough, you might need to take a break in the middle. When you get so you can't let go of the tool, pry your fingers off it and go do something else for awhile and come back to it.

Stove/refractory cement is your best bet - that said, you shouldn't need to seal most joints (reversed joint excepted). Your flue will suck air into any gaps, so smoke should never leak out a gap - your mason should know this.


I am going to take it upon myself to educate him about this. I do think, like you guessed, that he was more concerned about smoke leaking out, and therefore reversed the connection. He is a good guy, and an excellent fireplace builder (he rebuilt my fireplace upstairs and lined the chimney and it drafts marvelously), but this may have been a little out of his area of expertise.

 

[Yeshwant91]

[quote author="LeonMSPT" date="1232608953"]Easiest thing to do would be to crimp the end sticking out into the room... not that mean of a job unless it's really thick stainless. If it's real tough, you might need to take a break in the middle. When you get so you can't let go of the tool, pry your fingers off it and go do something else for awhile and come back to it.


It is Stainless steel! I am going to look for the both sides male adapter.

Well, here are some pics, that I should have posted earlier but could not.
I cannot figure out how to get them the right size, so just click on the link below, it will take you to the pictures. We ran out of tile, that's why there is no soapstone tile at the top of the wall. Will come today.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15516153@N02/?saved=1

 

[Yeshwant91]

I am also wondering if I should insert a T as a cleanout between the wall and the 90 degree elbow. I have seen a pic of that in the gallery.

 

[LeonMSPT]

I am also wondering if I should insert a T as a cleanout between the wall and the 90 degree elbow. I have seen a pic of that in the gallery.

Good, hot, fire in the stove daily, and I'd be surprised if you ever get more than a cup of creosote out of that rig a year. Don't really imagine condensate is ever going to be an issue either. If your stove will permit passing the brush and rods through it into the pipe and into the liner, that's how I'd do it.

Start at the stove, go in about long enough to get into the liner, then go to the roof and come down... clean out the stove, done.