How much did your install cost?

[Bluelagoon888]

Hi,

I did some modelling around what a boiler install would cost and wanted to get the group's take on it. I tried looking at 2 options: a smaller boiler such as the EKO 25-range, and a larger one like the Vedolux 50. Here are the numbers I came up with. Am I missing anything?

A few notes:

• "GST" is a Canadian tax I would have to pay.
• I live on a small island, so heavy materials may need to be barged over.
• Being on a small island that is somewhat remote tends to cause unexpected cost overruns. (The plumber forgets a part - 2 hour trip to nearest small town, 4 hour trip to nearest large town, he bills me all the way.) So I include a 20% contingency.

So with that said...what am I missing? Is this generally in line with what your installs have cost?

Thanks!

 

[woodsmaster]

Underground pex seems way to cheap. Good stuff is $13 a foot. Could save a couple thousand on the storage tanks if you could convert some used propane tanks.

 

[woodsmaster]

may or may not need a draft booster. I don't think most people need one. I had around $14,000 U.S. in mine but I didn't have any labor and I converted propane tanks for storage. Only had 120' underground pex. That includes the shed I put it in.

 

[Fred61]

You said in your other post that you needed a quick payback. I know nothing about living on an island in the Northwest but I do know that in my neighborhood it takes a long time to pay back such an installation with a small heat load. I have a light load and my unit has been in place for about nine years. Just now achieving payback. If I had to buy all my wood I would need to add a couple more years to the payback period.

 

[maple1]

Numbers for the underground are too low, likely for an inferior product. Thermopex or Logstor is good stuff, or you can price out spray in trench foam via a local spray foam contractor. If you have one.

Looks like you went 2 different ways on storage - but both boilers are pressurized boilers. Even though 500 gallons might be 'enough', I would not want less than what I have, which is 660 gallons via 2 x 330 propane tanks, stacked. So the storage component should be the same for each - and would be influenced on what you could maybe find locally for used LP tanks, and a good welder.

Each boiler would need a boiler pump. And controls.

Just ordinary pipe fittings & valves are what I underestimated . And required many return trips to the supplier. 1-1/4" ball valves are expensive at maybe $25 each - I forget how many of those I put in, but think it's around a dozen. Very important to have enough you can isolate each component later. Unions are also not cheap (for copper), and also help putting things together & taking them apart. Copper piping also expensive for near boiler stuff. I don't think I see anything in your numbers for that stuff.

Currency exhange is going to be a killer.

Mine cost me about $15k CDN, all in, 3.5 years ago. Almost 2k of that was getting the boiler here, in freight, duty & exchange. I have no underground, already had a chimney, found LP tanks locally (storage was likely $1-1.5k all together for me), included a backup electric boiler & new hot water heater, and did all the work myself. Except wiring the backup boiler & new hot water heater.

 

[huffdawg]

I'll be selling my eko 40 late spring early summer... with brand new never used draft inducer, controller and fan capacitor.. I live in Campbell River not too far from you.. Your welcome to come have a look at it while in operation..

I picked up 2 -used 500 gal propane tanks from superior propane in nanaimo for the price it would have fetched at the metal recycle yard. About $200 I think.

Also I dont see expansion tanks on your list.

 

[JohnDolz]

Hi,

I did some modelling around what a boiler install would cost and wanted to get the group's take on it. I tried looking at 2 options: a smaller boiler such as the EKO 25-range, and a larger one like the Vedolux 50. Here are the numbers I came up with. Am I missing anything?

View attachment 173432

View attachment 173433

A few notes:

• "GST" is a Canadian tax I would have to pay.
• I live on a small island, so heavy materials may need to be barged over.
• Being on a small island that is somewhat remote tends to cause unexpected cost overruns. (The plumber forgets a part - 2 hour trip to nearest small town, 4 hour trip to nearest large town, he bills me all the way.) So I include a 20% contingency.

So with that said...what am I missing? Is this generally in line with what your installs have cost?

Thanks!

I congratulate you on adding the Contingency! I was amazed at the # of $100+ trips to Home Depot (a few hundred $'s for fiberglass pipe insulation in the boiler room) . Looking at your 2 days for plumbing I'm assuming you are hands on and will do a lot of work yourself, otherwise there is a lot of additional labor. Also assuming you have the equipment you will need to move the stuff around otherwise you need to figure cost of a machine to move the tanks, etc.

 

[huffdawg]

You have ferry service to the Island .. No need for barging . You can haul these boilers in the back of a pck up or in a small utility trailer or cargo trailer.
Are you plumbing with copper or black iron.. Go with copper if your paying a plumber much quicker than black iron .
13.8 years pay back is a long time .. you must be heating a small place. I think I've paid mine down in about 7 yrs or less

1.5 days for plumbing is a little optimistic I think.

 

[wtrass]

I an just finishing an install with a vigas 40 with 1000 gallons storage. I have to agree with maple1- it's the small fittings that really add up. I do think you could do better on the heat exchanger probably.

 

[Bluelagoon888]

Thanks so much guys. This is super helpful information. I would never have thought of some of these items. Sounds like, if anything, I was underestimating.

I was assuming I could get away with unpressurized system to avoid the cost of the expansion tanks...so the other thing I've learned here is that these boilers need a pressurized system.

Sounds like I probably need to add at least 5-7K to each estimate to account for pressure tanks, misc fittings, extra shipping and import costs, longer plumbing time, and better underground piping.

 

[JohnDolz]

If you look at re-purposed propane tanks you can probably come in well under your budgeted $3963. You would think one of us would have a breakdown for you but of the other folks are like me I reached a point where I stopped counting and just stuffed all my receipts in a folder. No regrets though!

 

[WoodChoppa]

Thanks so much guys. This is super helpful information. I would never have thought of some of these items. Sounds like, if anything, I was underestimating.

I was assuming I could get away with unpressurized system to avoid the cost of the expansion tanks...so the other thing I've learned here is that these boilers need a pressurized system.

Sounds like I probably need to add at least 5-7K to each estimate to account for pressure tanks, misc fittings, extra shipping and import costs, longer plumbing time, and better underground piping.

Exchange rate right now is close to 40%, there are Canadian made wood boilers on the market that could save you that cost.

 

[maple1]

Thanks so much guys. This is super helpful information. I would never have thought of some of these items. Sounds like, if anything, I was underestimating.

I was assuming I could get away with unpressurized system to avoid the cost of the expansion tanks...so the other thing I've learned here is that these boilers need a pressurized system.

Sounds like I probably need to add at least 5-7K to each estimate to account for pressure tanks, misc fittings, extra shipping and import costs, longer plumbing time, and better underground piping.

You could still do unpressurized storage if you wanted. The budget trade off is pressurized = expansion, unpressurized = more heat exchangers.

When doing storage, what is available locally & how much that costs is a big fluctuating thing from situation to situation & place to place. I was feeling pretty behind an 8 ball until someone pointed me to a big scrap yard an hour away, they had a mountain of used LP tanks. Gold mine. Sounds like huffdawg might have some good info for you above - I've been to Nanaimo before but don't know how far you are from there.

 

[Bluelagoon888]

You have ferry service to the Island .. No need for barging . You can haul these boilers in the back of a pck up or in a small utility trailer or cargo trailer.
Are you plumbing with copper or black iron.. Go with copper if your paying a plumber much quicker than black iron .
13.8 years pay back is a long time .. you must be heating a small place. I think I've paid mine down in about 7 yrs or less

1.5 days for plumbing is a little optimistic I think.

Hey huffdawg,

You must have looked at my profile. I don't actually live on Galiano, I live near Galiano on a separate island. I just put Galiano there because it's the nearest reference point. In any case, if you can carry these things in a pickup truck then I can probably figure out a way to get it loaded into my boat and then drag it up the dock and onto a trailer, so perhaps barging is not needed anyway. Thanks that's good to know.

Everything is copper in the plumbing room today.

I'm actually heating a 3500 sq foot house, but I'm not home full time. During the heating season I'm probably there 1/2 time. So my current spend on propane to heat is $3000 / year.

 

[huffdawg]

Hey huffdawg,

You must have looked at my profile. I don't actually live on Galiano, I live near Galiano on a separate island. I just put Galiano there because it's the nearest reference point. In any case, if you can carry these things in a pickup truck then I can probably figure out a way to get it loaded into my boat and then drag it up the dock and onto a trailer, so perhaps barging is not needed anyway. Thanks that's good to know.

Everything is copper in the plumbing room today.

I'm actually heating a 3500 sq foot house, but I'm not home full time. During the heating season I'm probably there 1/2 time. So my current spend on propane to heat is $3000 / year.

Never looked at your profile just your Avatar. I worked on the Queen of Nanaimo before and been into Sturdies bay many times.

 

[Coal Reaper]

Man that is a long time to pay back. I dont think you mentioned if you factored in buying or processing, but you still need to handle wood every day. Have you looked into just air sealing and further insulation to reduce your heat load? Might be a better use of you money and maybe a wood stove to supplement your current system.
Expansion tanks on this side of boarder are about $500 per 500 gallons of storage. Retrofitting propane tanks is a lot cheaper than manufactured insulated tanks, but some welding will need to be done. Most people are able to get them for less then $1 per gallon size. You can spray foam the propane tanks yourself with kits. They are easy to use if you follow the instructions about temperature. Fittings add up like crazy. I think i placed three seperate orders for plumbing related stuff. I budgeted $12.5k and came in a grand over that. Most of that overage was renting a backhoe as i thought at first i would dig the trench by hand. Yeah right. I planned my system for a year before i even bought anything so i had it dialed in pretty well. Think about fittings a lot and spare no expense on insulated underground pipe. Put valves at every circ, expansion tank, boiler, storage tank, connection to house, etc. Drains. Air elimination. Draw it all out. You are probably going to need another circ, or jusr ditch the thermostatic valve and get the loading unit. I can share my costing sheet on monday. Your chimney cost looks high. I think i was $700. I wish i had kept track of my labor. I can tell you it sure wasnt a mere two days.
And if this is in an outbuilding and you are only there for half the heating season you have to consider a method to keep it from freezing.

 

[huffdawg]

My completed chimney was $1200 after all said and done . Pricier for most stuff here..

 

[Coal Reaper]

i originally budgeted $300 for plumbing fittings and pipe. ha! some pipe insulation cost is hidden there too. i also have some expense in spray foaming and finishing walls in my 'boiler shop' that is within the barn. barn is not insulated but it is really nice to have a 60-70* room all through winter in that barn!

dig trench $ 400.00
PEX $ 675.00
insulate room $ 1,000.00
insulate PEX $ 640.00
insulate tank $ 860.00
finish walls $ 500.00

Vedolux 37 $ 5,680.80
stand $ inc^
loading unit $ inc^^
expansion $ 979.90
lp tank $ 790.00
bumble bee $ 183.95
chimney $ 750.00

plumbing $ 969.10
air eliminator $ 101.85

temp monitor $ 303.29


Total: $ 13,833.89


if anybody wants my spreadsheet detailing exactly what fittings i bought, PM me your email address and i can send it.

 

[tom in maine]

A couple thoughts on propane tanks and unpressurized tanks.
I believe a 1000 gallon propane tank weighs about 3000 pounds. I am in awe of those of you who have wrangled these into use.
A 1000g tank has a surface area of about 200 sq. ft. If you insulate it to 4.5", and use a disposable spray foam set, you are probably paying $1.50-$2.00+ per board foot. It is cheaper to have a professional spray applicator do it and it will be a much better job.

If you are not a welder, then you need to pay someone to install the proper fittings. In tank heat exchangers are a bit of a project.

As mentioned earlier, this all does add up. And if you are paying a third party to do this in lieu of sweat equity, that will add up as well.
Being on an island does present significant barriers to folks on the mainland.
We just recently shipped a tall 1400 gallon tank to a customer on a BC Island. The logistics were not too much of an issue, although customs
are a bit more of a nuisance--not a big time hog or cost, just a lot of paperwork for us.

The simple fit for many folks we deal with, is to site build a tank and get a custom liner set from us.
Of course, we prefer to sell a whole tank. There is no learning curve for DIYers, but we can talk you through it.

 

[huffdawg]

1000 gal. propane tank weighs roughly 1800 lbs empty
500 gal propane tank weighs roughly 900 lbs. empty

I hoisted and moved my 2-500 gal tanks around with a 180 bobcat , bucket lifted just high enough to stand vertically.
I paid $600 bucks to have 4" of closed cell foam sprayed onto 2-500 gal. tanks.
I had my boiler, pex tubing and other various parts shipped to Blaine Washington and went down to pick up myself saved on brokerage fee's and customs hassles.

 

[heaterman]

What is your actual heat loss?

You could likely do a Garn Jr for less cost than either of the options you mentioned and have 1000 gallons of storage built in.
US$ price right now is roughly $13K. x 1.4 currency exchange rate = $18,200. Add freight costs, GST and piping to your house as you have tallied up previously.
Get in touch with Gordon Bullen in Blind Bay at 250-675-4270
He's the Garn rep for your area if you're interested.

I'm guessing you'll be very disappointed in the underground piping. You want something that is foam filled, not wrapped with a few layers of stuff.