How stuffed is your stove?

[bmwbj]

Now that I got my cat. working the right way. How much wood can I safely put in my VC Interpid II
with-out having an over firing issue or smoking complaints. I normally only put in 2 to 3 3" splits in at a time
because it is difficult to maintain an even heat out-put. It seems that this amount works nicely without having
to fiddle with the primary air adjustment too much.
I tried 1 time to fill the stove to the top, but it took too long to heat up, than when it was at the right temp
for cat. engagement, the stove wanted to overheat, so I had to turn the primary air down to almost nothing, than the cat. shut off, so back and forth I went until the wood was gone.
Small loads work great and cleaner burning without an issue or worry about leaving the stove alone for 5 min. It sure would be nice to "set it and forget it" for about 3 hours or so. The Maple i'm burning is well seasoned and I've aslo tried other woods like oak, and ash, but my end results always seem to be the same when I stuff it full like a Thanksgiving Turkey...
I guess we never work so well when we are over stuffed either. :-S

 

[Corie]

I have a different style stove all together right now, but back when I was running a catalytic stove I packed that puppy to the top of the firebox, literally.

 

[bmwbj]

Corie, like I had mentioned --- I tried that may times but had a very hard time regulating the stove
temps. It would easily tip the scales at 700+ or either drop down below Cat. operation. It seems to be a very difficult job to try to maintain any kind of steady temps. It certainly works great with small loads, but I must
reload every 45min. or so.

 

[Todd]

I think you need to fill it up and tinker with the air some more. It may just take some practice and trial/error til you get it figured out. You should be able to fill that stove up and get a long even burn.

 

[kwburn]

we fill ours to the top. when we can't close the top load door we know we put too much in

here's one thing you need to remember about your stove temps when filling to the top. you now have non-burning wood sitting up at the top of your stove just below your thermometer so its going to shield that area of the stove a bit and give lower than actual readings. so technically yes that part of your stove isn't going to be giving off the same amount of heat until the load burns down a bit but the front, back and sides still will be. the key is the real fire down below is burning just fine and the exhaust going to your cat is too. the top may read down into the 400's but your cat can still be engaged because its much hotter deeper in there.

so resisit the urge to crank up the air to get your thermometer where you think it needs to be when its filled to the top. by the time it gets where you think it needs to be you will have a raging fire in there and your thermometer is going to shoot up much higher than you intended. the other side effect is your wood load won't last as long as it should have.
you'll figure it all out in time.

 

[jpl1nh]

When you say that your cat shuts off, how are you determining that is happening? Once your cat lights off, it's self perpetuating regardless of stove temp, just as long as there is smoke to feed it. Your cat may not be glowing but that does not mean it isn't still firing away. With the air shut way down, you may have such a slow burn, or even a smolder, that your stove temps drop down to 350-400, yet your cat would still be cranking away and 8 hours later you would just be finnishing up a load. In general, when you load your stove, load it up. Your cat needs to get above 500 to light off, but once it does, it won't go out until well into the coal stage regardless of your stove temp.

 

[Corie]

Sounds to me like a catalytic probe thermometer might be of use to you.

 

[North of 60]

Weird. My manual states to fill it up to the max on every load because of the cat. Check out the cat light off thread this should help. Your stove must have a manual damper on it. ??? Good luck on your quest.

 

[moondoggy]

When you say that your cat shuts off, how are you determining that is happening? Once your cat lights off, it's self perpetuating regardless of stove temp, just as long as there is smoke to feed it. Your cat may not be glowing but that does not mean it isn't still firing away. With the air shut way down, you may have such a slow burn, or even a smolder, that your stove temps drop down to 350-400, yet your cat would still be cranking away and 8 hours later you would just be finnishing up a load. In general, when you load your stove, load it up. Your cat needs to get above 500 to light off, but once it does, it won't go out until well into the coal stage regardless of your stove temp.

ok im doing it wrong.
man i engage the cat. when my elbow temp hits 500 (stove is usually 550.)
griddle will rise. flue temp drops.
after about an hour or so and the griddle is down to 500 and falling and i shut it down the cat.

so i can keep the cat engaged on my intrepid even til its coals, even though griddle drops? damn.

How stuffed? 3-4 logs full, but i criss cross them so it gets higher
and i usually put

 

[Backwoods Savage]

No need to criss cross them. Just put in whatever the firebox will hold. And yes, keep the cat. engaged until you add more wood. No need to tinker with it at all.

 

[bmwbj]

Moondoggy, I do the same thing as you. I shut off the cat. to refill, than wait for the temp on the pipe to rise to at least 500* than re-engage the cat again. But I only use a few logs because I seem to get an over fire condition if I load it too full. I think the issue is that I adjust the primary air too much, and expect to see changes instantly. Cast iron take a while to change temps, and I am always afraid to "overfire" it if it gets above 700. I have been there and done that with this stove too many times aready, trying to "set it and forget it". So I only use small loads and refill often to feel safer.

 

[jpl1nh]

Moondoggy, I do the same thing as you. I shut off the cat. to refill, than wait for the temp on the pipe to rise to at least 500* than re-engage the cat again. But I only use a few logs because I seem to get an over fire condition if I load it too full. I think the issue is that I adjust the primary air too much, and expect to see changes instantly. Cast iron take a while to change temps, and I am always afraid to "overfire" it if it gets above 700. I have been there and done that with this stove too many times aready, trying to "set it and forget it". So I only use small loads and refill often to feel safer.

It's important to make sure your flue gas temp is safely up over 500 but I suspect that if you are using a surface thermometer on your stack and you're waiting for 500 degrees on that, you may be up to 750-800 actual flue gas temp.. I've been trying to find out how surface stack temp compares to probe temps to support or refute my thinking. However, on my Keystone with the heavier 22 guage pipe, I'm finding I can light off my cat at about 250 surface stack temp. You want the cat to be lit off all the time possible though per Todd's experience if you try to light it off too soon your risk thermal shock and cracking of the combustor.

 

[bmwbj]

Moondoggy, I do the same thing as you. I shut off the cat. to refill, than wait for the temp on the pipe to rise to at least 500* than re-engage the cat again. But I only use a few logs because I seem to get an over fire condition if I load it too full. I think the issue is that I adjust the primary air too much, and expect to see changes instantly. Cast iron take a while to change temps, and I am always afraid to "overfire" it if it gets above 700. I have been there and done that with this stove too many times aready, trying to "set it and forget it". So I only use small loads and refill often to feel safer.

It's important to make sure your flue gas temp is safely up over 500 but I suspect that if you are using a surface thermometer on your stack and you're waiting for 500 degrees on that, you may be up to 750-800 actual flue gas temp.. I've been trying to find out how surface stack temp compares to probe temps to support or refute my thinking. However, on my Keystone with the heavier 22 guage pipe, I'm finding I can light off my cat at about 250 surface stack temp. You want the cat to be lit off all the time possible though per Todd's experience if you try to light it off too soon your risk thermal shock and cracking of the combustor.

jp, It is true I am using a stack, stick-on, thermometer about 2 feet up, and a stick-on on the grittle surface as well. I only engage the cat when my stove and stack are both over 500. I do this after every refill, I guess that is the proper way? At least that what I hear everyone else doing with a cat stove.

 

[jpl1nh]

Moondoggy, I do the same thing as you. I shut off the cat. to refill, than wait for the temp on the pipe to rise to at least 500* than re-engage the cat again. But I only use a few logs because I seem to get an over fire condition if I load it too full. I think the issue is that I adjust the primary air too much, and expect to see changes instantly. Cast iron take a while to change temps, and I am always afraid to "overfire" it if it gets above 700. I have been there and done that with this stove too many times aready, trying to "set it and forget it". So I only use small loads and refill often to feel safer.

It's important to make sure your flue gas temp is safely up over 500 but I suspect that if you are using a surface thermometer on your stack and you're waiting for 500 degrees on that, you may be up to 750-800 actual flue gas temp.. I've been trying to find out how surface stack temp compares to probe temps to support or refute my thinking. However, on my Keystone with the heavier 22 guage pipe, I'm finding I can light off my cat at about 250 surface stack temp. You want the cat to be lit off all the time possible though per Todd's experience if you try to light it off too soon your risk thermal shock and cracking of the combustor.

jp, It is true I am using a stack, stick-on, thermometer about 2 feet up, and a stick-on on the grittle surface as well. I only engage the cat when my stove and stack are both over 500. I do this after every refill, I guess that is the proper way? At least that what I hear everyone else doing with a cat stove.

The important thing is what the temp is where the cat is inside your stove. Since you and I use surface thermometers, we are relying on them as an imperfect indicator of internal temperatures. I think it's safe to say that the internal temperatures are often likely higher than the griddle and stack temperatures, though it's possible that within the first few minutes after reloading your surface temperatures could be higher than the internal temperatures since as you point out, it takes the cast a little while to react. The Condar web site has good basic info on combustors as does Woodstock Stove company, check out their pdf operating manuals.

 

[begreen]

You need to fill it up with thicker splits once the stove is up to temperature. 2-3" splits are good for starting a fire and getting a nice coal bed established. After that go for 4-6" thick splits.

 

[babalu87]

Supposed to get to 10 tonight, its stuffed like me at Thanksgiving

 

[ozarkjeep]

on my own cat stove, how I stack the splits makes a difference on how hot the cat burns, and how quickly it lights.

I can see mine, right inside and up, so I open the door, and shoot it with the harbour freight temp gun, as soon as it hits 500 ( not long even, from a dead start) I close the cat, and leave the air wide open until the surface temp is 400 or so.

then I curb the air back to 1/4 or less, mine is totally manual, no fancy auto thermostatic control ( I wish it had one!)

4 4-6" splits will give me a nice bed of coals, and nearly a 300 surface temp several hours later, then I open the cat bypass, rack coals to the front, and reload, and do it all again.
the temp has peaked to 600 degrees overnight like this, depends on stacking and how the splits are gassing off.

I only really STUFF it full on the coldest of nights, and when I do, its hotter, for longer.

 

[kwburn]

well last night i stuffed mine at midnight and the thermometer read 18 degrees outside. i put in the thickest stuff that would fit through the top which left very little air space (ie not criss crossed). got it burning and engaged even though griddle temps were in the 400's due to all the wood in there. is was up in the 500's with a nice slow burn when i went to bed a half hour later.
i was shocked to come down at 8am this morning to bright orange coals and a griddle temp of 425 degrees after 8 hours!
thats a personal best for me.

 

[babalu87]

well last night i stuffed mine at midnight and the thermometer read 18 degrees outside. i put in the thickest stuff that would fit through the top which left very little air space (ie not criss crossed). got it burning and engaged even though griddle temps were in the 400's due to all the wood in there. is was up in the 500's with a nice slow burn when i went to bed a half hour later.
i was shocked to come down at 8am this morning to bright orange coals and a griddle temp of 425 degrees after 8 hours!
thats a personal best for me.

Stop criss-crossing your wood and 8 hr burns will be commonplace.
Criss-cross is perfect for starting a fire but unnecessary for heating purposes. The idea is to eliminate air spaces for long burns.

 

[bmwbj]

OK everybody, I think I found out where, and what my problem was. I always opend a window right to the right of my stove (2 feet away) about 2" open to let in fresh air for "proper burning air supply". I tried last night to leave the window closed, and to my surprize, the stove is burning BETTER with the window shut. Maybe it was getting too much cold air and not regulating the primary and secondary flaps correctly. I have reloaded the stove 5 times since the closing of the window and it has not failed to maintain the set temps. yet.
I also noted that even if the stove temp drops below 400 the cat is still bruning up all the smoke, this never did that before with the window open. Does this sound like a crazy answer, or am I onto something here.
What ever it is, it is working ok now. Not even a wisp of smoke is coming from the stack...I love it.
Oh, I forgot to mention: 3, 3" splits are now lasting about 2.5 to 3 hours now at 500*.

 

[Heat Miser]

In my Defiant Catalytic I will pack the firebox up as high as it will go through the top loader. I'll only do this though once the stove is nice and hot. If you have a good bed of coals it works even better. I'll pack in the wood with as little air space as possible between the splits. Ideally, it should fit together like one large block of wood when you're done. This configuration will burn all night for me and leave hot coals in the stove in the morning. The catalytic once hot enough manages to keep working through the entire burn and the stove will hold whatever temp you set on the thermostatic damper.

 

[Gooserider]

Sounds to me like a catalytic probe thermometer might be of use to you.

Do you know if they make a cat probe thermometer for the Encore - If so can it be read from the top / front of the stove? Do you have a pointer to it?

I'm currently working with just the griddle top magnetic that I used to use on my flue with the smoke dragon. When I put in the Encore I replaced the old crappy steel "T" with a stainless one, and now there is no place to stick a magnetic thermometer, as the liner goes into the top of the "T" and the arm goes into the flue collar. I probably need to wire on a flue thermometer I guess...

One of the minor negatives of the Encore is that you really can't see the cat directly to see if it's lit - it's behind the hood, and if the stove is full, the wood will keep you from seeing the hood... There doesn't seem to be a really good way to tell if the cat is actually lit or not from the stove. (and I can't see my stack from inside the house)

In terms of the question at hand, I try to pack it as tight as I can at each load, typically 6-8 splits, maybe more depending on size, essentially as big as I can get through the top load door. I do have some slack on the ends, as the firebox is a bit over 20" at the bottom, and tapers to maybe about 16-17" just below the door, plus because the door is shorter, you need to angle the peices in. (BTW, I found you can get a longer peice in through the top door if you put the left end in first - the air control housing makes the right side a bit shorter.)

I try not to stuff so much in that the load door won't close all the way, and you need to be careful that a short peice on the top doesn't start to slide to the back and interfere with closing the damper - if it does, you have to open the top door and wiggle things around - this tends to get smoke into the room

I generally let the stove burn down until I have just a thin layer of coals over the grate, then I stir them around a bit to shake the ashes, check the pan (usually needs to be emptied every 2-3 days) and then load it back up to the gills,
and turn the air up until I get a good bit of flames with lots of fire and charring on the bottom logs, and at least some signs of fire on the upper ones. Then I engage the cat, and turn the air down.

Once I engage the cat, I leave it on until the next reload - I often don't remember to disengage until I get a few splits in and it starts smoking at me :red:

Seems to work good doing it that way....

Gooserider

 

[eernest4]

22 deg in southwestern ct for monday nite with a 10 mph wind. 8 deg chill factor, so it feel like 14 *
Also, calling for rain or snow , so temps expected to vary at different times overnight. Weather channel,who can believe them?

stove already fairly stuffed with 7 -4"x4"x24" pallet feet and 4- 3/4 x 3x24 pallet stringers. Been burning 24/7 for the last 5 days, it seems. Trying to size loads to how much heat I need & not overfire so as to make the woodpile last. Going out this afternoon to break up some more pallets as I have room now, for them in the wood shed because I already burned 1/3 of the wood that was in there, during oct & nov.

To bad it rained last night, I hope the wood I put in today will be dry by the time I get around to burning it. I will mark it with a crayon , "wet, 12 /3 07" & leave it until march to burn & then mix it with what ever dry wood i have left.