How to fight climate change... for reals.

[woodgeek]

Ok. Serious question about ICE, I bet some of you know this one already.

I saw an "image" on facebook and I don't know, I am asking, can this be true.

The point of the image was a modern one ton full size pickup truck could be driven on an insane road trip, something like Prudhoe Bay to Las Vegas, and have the same total emissions as a 2 cycle leaf blower run at full throttle for 20 minutes.

Is this an exaggeration? I know ICE automotive technology has come an insanely long way in the last 40 years or so. Asking for a friend that has 2 cycle ICE on his boat.

Sounds legit to me. I have heard that lawn and landscaping equipment in California emits more (non-CO2) pollutants than all the passenger cars.

Almost like that equipment has not been subject to the same emission regulations as road vehicles for several decades. A Loophole.

ICE engine emissions are bad.

--Unburned alkanes are not that toxic. Most will oxidize in the atmosphere.
--Benzene is a potent carcinogen. The rate of cancers in the 20th century is 2-3X higher than the pre-industrial rate. The continuous dose of Benzene (ramped up after 1930 due to ICE vehicles) is thought to be a major contributor (cancer rates are measurably higher in people that live near/downwind of gas stations). The amount of Benzene in gasoline has been reduced by more than a factor of 10 over the last three decades for this reason. It has not been lowered further due to protests from Oil companies. Cancer rates are plateauing. Hmmm.
--Leaded gas shaved a few IQ points off a generation of people (including your truly). Now phased out.
--NOx (brown smog) interacts directly with the cardiovascular system as a signaling molecule. Scientists in the 70s noticed spikes in heart attacks and strokes coincident with bad air quality days. A very easy to observe correlation... that led to the Clean Air Act. More efficient ICE engines could be engineered, by using different materials and higher temperatures, and different air/fuel ratios... but they would produce more NOx, and so are not sold. Diesels (have higher temps) make more NOx, leading to the Dieselgate scandal (and an earlier truck scam at Mack).
--PM2.5 nanoparticles from Diesel are considered v dangerous. The rapid combustion in a Diesel engine is incomplete, so these particles are not just clean 'soot' as often supposed, but infused with a witch's brew of heavier and highly reactive incomplete combustion products. I have seen studies that show that the particles can be adsorbed by the olfactory receptors and trafficked directly to the brain. Many researchers believe this process causes chronic injury to the hippocampus, leading to Alzheimers and is responsible for the surge in same over the last few decades. PM2.5 regs were rolled out, and the Alzheimers 'surge' has leveled out and started to show signs of falling.

The big three... Cancer, Cardiovascular and Alzheimers... ICE emissions are implicated strongly in all three!

So yeah, ICE emission regulations have been doing a complex cost-benefit-technology dance driven by medical insights for the last 50+ years. A well documented story that nobody knows... while everyone is convinced they are getting cancer due to unmeasurable pesticide residues in their food or the nuke plant 20 miles away. While living in a house with measurable benzene vapor concentrations!

And ofc, the CO2 IS the long-term problem. So leaving that out from an emission story is misleading. I have heard the same stats cited as evidence that cars are not that bad for global warming!

 

[Ashful]

Yep, I've been calling out OPE for years, most recently:

BEV & PHEV financials

Searching the forum, it looks like it's been 2 years since there was a thread purely dedicated to the financial justification of BEV's and/or PHEV's. Surely, a lot has changed, not the least of which is fuel prices. So let's have it, a pure cost comparison, all emotion and politics aside...

www.hearth.com

Oil Prices Now

Hi Jan, my concern is that these high fuel prices will hurt the working poor the hardest. When you are spending50% of what you make to get to work it will create a very serious situation; prices going up, take home pay going down. I agree. I might be in a fortunate situation as I work from...

www.hearth.com

In that second linked post, I did some quick back-of-the-envelope math, and reasoned that we probably use close to 1% of our national gasoline consumption in residential OPE. This includes both homeowner grade junk and commercial OPE, but leaves out farm equipment. There's plenty of reason for error in my quick math, maybe even 2x or 3x... but likely not 10x.

I think there's a lot of room to improve the emissions of ICE ride-on and walk-behind OPE, and even (to a lesser degree) ICE hand-held OPE. The ride-on and walk-behind may transition to BEV first, a few are already there. But the hand-held BE's have been heavy under-performers, at least for pro and pro-sumer.

As much as I hate stinking of 2-stroke after using hand-held OPE, the idea of adding even ounces of weight to a hand-held machine (or giving up 0.1 hp) for the sake of emissions, is unappealing to me. In my ideal world, they'd focus on the ride-on equipment (eg. zero turn mowers & compact utility tractors) first, follow that with walk-behinds (snowblowers, mowers, large leaf blowers, rototillers, pressure washers), and leave my hand-held equipment alone

 

[EbS-P]

I've read this with interest. I'm guilty of all of the above, but (at least) I try to not be.

I think "scorn" is a bit too strong a word for what was intended. More like peer pressure.
As an example, I enjoy this bumber sticker - but is it scorn?

View attachment 298060

There is scorn, but there is also commentary on behavior, with a critical undertone, and, if done well, an educational component as well. I see the above bumper sticker (touching on a different subject) in that vein. I surmise that once EVs become 75% majority of vehicles, similar type "commentary" could ensue.

Not all people are susceptible to rational, fact-based explanations of points of view. (Don't we know that, in these last two years...) Sometimes a poking, eye-winking, critical commentary that also points the way to a better solution works well.

This peer pressure is similar to the fact that while a lot of people litter, fewer dare do so in plain public sight. Yes, there are those who do, but there are more who litter trying to not be seen. (I think.)

Anyway, my $0.02

Good points. Peer pressure is fine. Light hearted inconsequential public shaming I’m fine with. It’s when your believes have been shown (it’s science dude) to have had or have a high probability of harming society or specific parts of society that my scornful feeling arise. Im decent and generally keep these to my self but Given repeated or long enough interactions my scorn becomes apparent.

We can approach these situations if we all earnestly want to learn. And that probably means putting some mutual trust in an expert. We really can not teach ourselves everything from just our own observations. But personally I’m past the point of entering that space of trying to teach/learn from someone who I don’t see any evidence of reciprocal interaction.

Case in point. Got a real glare the other day from a VW suv driver (probably 60 years old) while in the Tesla. Just smiled and turned back to the traffic signal. It was perplexing… untill he drove past and his most prominent bumper sticker read. FU*EV (there were others).

 

[woodgeek]

As much as I hate stinking of 2-stroke after using hand-held OPE, the idea of adding even ounces of weight to a hand-held machine (or giving up 0.1 hp) for the sake of emissions, is unappealing to me. In my ideal world, they'd focus on the ride-on equipment (eg. zero turn mowers & compact utility tractors) first, follow that with walk-behinds (snowblowers, mowers, large leaf blowers, rototillers, pressure washers), and leave my hand-held equipment alone

From my POV, this lawn equipment is a small factor for CO2/climate emissions, so I really don't much care. And that small factor is going to get nearly covered by BEV riding and walk behind equipment, that will spin off the tech from EV cars, by and by.

Re two-strokes... it is not clear to me that the unburned lubricating oil that gets aerosolized is particularly toxic. I haven't seen anything tbh. I could see that being bad in a marine environment, of course.

 

[woodgeek]

Good post, woodgeek. BUT, I'd like to debate this line:

Sorry to pick apart your sentence, but my experience has been counter to this, more dramatically and consistently than I'd have ever predicted.

One example that comes to mind is my three lamp posts, each of which was populated with three 25W candelabra base tall bent tip bulbs. Always worked fine with incandescents, but since they're on several hours every night, I figured they'd be a good candidate for replacement with LED.

I bought what appeared to be a quality product at the local Lowes, and after learning you can't run all LED's in a lamp post in winter (they frost up badly due to lack of heat), I settled on putting one incandescent with two LED bulbs in each of the three lamp posts. This put enough heat into the lamp to keep it from frosting on cold winter nights, and I figured I'd be changing the incandescent once every year or three, but the LED's would last forever. Unfortunately, here's what happened:

• After less than 6 months, half the LED's were dead. Zero incandescent failures. I replaced each blown LED with an incandescent bulb.
• After 12 months, ALL the LED bulbs had died. I replaced the remainder with incandescents.
• Now, I believe 3 years since the experiment began, I'm just having to replace the first few incandescent bulbs.

The usage case may not have been ideal for LED's, although a PVC lamp post with a heavy brass topper that gets buffeted around in the wind all winter sure seemed to be an ideal situation for favoring anything other than a tungsten filament rattling about in a vacuum bulb.

I have a few LED bulbs in this house, attics and the garage, and likewise have found them to not last any longer than an incandescent. The case for spending several times more, for a bulb that both looks worth and has equal to lesser real-world lifespan, doesn't seem to be there... yet.

And yes, I do understand the LED is likely fine, it's other passive components within the bulb circuitry almost certainly failing before the LED. But the end result is the same, it's a dead bulb assembly, headed for the landfill.

Probably need a separate thread... but there is a quality issue. Its a bit of a crap-shoot. Even 'name' bulbs can fail in a short time. I have had the best luck, honestly, with cheapie, no name Chinese filament bulbs. That is what I have all over my house now.

Don't get the outdoor fixture frosting up... I and all my neighbors have LED outdoor fixtures, and I don't see that problem. I would ofc recommend LED filament bulbs (they do seem more reliable to me), but I know you are particular with aesthetics. Perhaps a frosted filament?

 

[woodgeek]

For the record, I was thinking of the face my teens make at me when I am being 'cringey' when I typed the word 'scorn'.

 

[stoveliker]

My LED light at the front door, on a dusk to dawn sensor (so on each night for at least 8 hours, I think) has lasted me now 4 years. Including in howling winter storms that run right past it (as in the storm door being blown out of my wife's hands) at 15 F.

Mine is a frosted glass bulb (no fancy "Edison" filaments visible). GE, 800 lumens, 8.5 W. Currently $7.48 on Amazon.

I do think in this case buying online is a good idea, as you can see buyer's feedback regarding varying quality.

 

[Poindexter]

On the lightbulb thing the wife and I reluctantly upgraded the whole house to CFL many years ago. I stocked up on GE 'reveal' series incandescents for my workshop area.

We got around to listing the house (it didn't sell that time around) but the realtor was insistent that we replace all the CFL and upgrade to LED. We got packs and packs of LED bulbs from Costco. The outdoor ones only last about two years for me, the indoors ones I haven't had to replace one yet, probably about five years now.

I don't know if I ran them long enough to save any money buying the CFLs, but they were miserable to be around.

EDIT: January 2017 the wife and I bought 827 kwh, Jan 2022 we bought 840 kwh. I would have to do some digging to see why it was a wash. I am a firm believer in LED lighting, especially among products that actually list the color temperature on the package. It could be we ran the head bolt heaters for outdoor vehicles more in 22, might have been one but probably not two kids home in Jan 17. I know there were no kids home in Jan 22. We could have been on LED already in 2017. I did see a blip in the electric bill when we went to CFL, but nothing really noticeable financially when we switched to LED.

 

[stoveliker]

Lighting is only a tiny fraction of the electricity you use, in particular when heating (washer, drier, water, dishwasher etc) are involved.

 

[begreen]

Lighting is only a tiny fraction of the electricity you use, in particular when heating (washer, drier, water, dishwasher etc) are involved.

That depends on the home, the extent of lighting, owner habits, and the hours they are on. In some homes, a lot of lights are on for 12+ hrs a day in the winter. If it's a big home with lots of rooms and maybe lots of recessed can lights, this can add up, especially if people forget to turn off lights. Note that this does not include outdoor lighting which can add another 10-20 lights, some of high wattage, running dawn to dusk.

 

[stoveliker]

That is it not my experience, again with heating (cooking, fridge, freezer, fancy espresso machine), and being conscientious with lighting (see earlier thread about timed switches), it doesn't make a significant dent.
Most cfls run between 15 and 40 W. So say 30 W. LED is often near 10 W.
So 1/3 of something that was not large to start with, in the 10-15 kWh I use per day (before the minisplit).

Btw, consistent with the nearly similar experience of our friend in Fairbanks.

The best way to check and avoid the influence of fluctuations, you'd have to plot the monthly usage two years before and two years after the switch to LED and see if there is a step down in usage.

 

[EbS-P]

Let’s keep this side track rolling. 4 loads of dirty diapers washed to save the planet! Hung out to dry too. And the 4 and six year old were told they can wear them to bed instead of a 40 cent pull-up and match their sister. One is excited one wasn’t so much. one size diapers 4 weeks to 4 years.

On the lightbulb thing the wife and I reluctantly upgraded the whole house to CFL many years ago. I stocked up on GE 'reveal' series incandescents for my workshop area.

We got around to listing the house (it didn't sell that time around) but the realtor was insistent that we replace all the CFL and upgrade to LED. We got packs and packs of LED bulbs from Costco. The outdoor ones only last about two years for me, the indoors ones I haven't had to replace one yet, probably about five years now.

I don't know if I ran them long enough to save any money buying the CFLs, but they were miserable to be around.

EDIT: January 2017 the wife and I bought 827 kwh, Jan 2022 we bought 840 kwh. I would have to do some digging to see why it was a wash. I am a firm believer in LED lighting, especially among products that actually list the color temperature on the package. It could be we ran the head bolt heaters for outdoor vehicles more in 22, might have been one but probably not two kids home in Jan 17. I know there were no kids home in Jan 22. We could have been on LED already in 2017. I did see a blip in the electric bill when we went to CFL, but nothing really noticeable financially when we switched to LED.

the big efficiency jump happened when one switched to cfl. 40-60 W to 14 or 15. LEDs are what 11W and no toxic mercury vapor.

 

[Poindexter]

I don't have a clear handle on how much of our electricity use is for lighting, refrigeration, laundry and dishwashing. Cooking.

In summer months we draw 12-14 kwh per day average, which seems to be well below average among my colleagues. The main things we do are only run full loads in the laundry machines and dishwasher, and when a freezer is getting low we'll park a couple water jugs in it to keep the freezers near full.

One variable is the head bolt heaters for the vehicles we park outside. Two vehicles, each draws about 1000w to warm up the battery, the engine oil and whichever pair of cylinders are nearest the special bolt with a wire coming out the top. I have those on timers, even at -40dF 2-3 hours plugged in and powered up is enough for a stress free engine start.

The really big variable at my house is how many kids are home. The only effective way I know of to teach kids about utility usage is to get them into an apartment where they have to pay their own utilities. Nothing else I have thought to try has made a hill of beans worth of difference.

Lighting is only a tiny fraction of the electricity you use, in particular when heating (washer, drier, water, dishwasher etc) are involved.

The only electricity involved in heating my house is the convection deck fan on my wood stove, the ignitor in my oil burning furnace, the circuitry for the thermostats and the pump that moves hot water around in my baseboards. I do agree many many people do use electricity for heating or back up heating and it is a big chunk of the electric bill for many many people, but I probably spend more on lighting. There is also a pump that circulates water between my DHW holding tank and the hot water heating loop in my boiler, and more control circuitry on that.

There is a heating element in my clothes dryer and my dishwasher and all the elements in my electric cook stove, and the BTUs are inside my envelope; but I don't count those functions in my heating. I mean a little maybe. I don't do much baking in the summer because it does heat the house up.

I guess I do agree that making hot water inside the dishwasher is relatively high electric consumption compared to the water pump in the dishwasher, same for the drum motor versus heating element in the clothes dryer. In that sense, yes, I probably do use a fair amount of electricity to make "heat" but compared to the energy it takes to heat the house those are fairly trivial loads in my world.

I suspect refrigeration should be included as well. They are just small heatpumps, yes? Drawing electricity, turning a compressor, and pumping heat out of the insulated box and releasing that heat into my insulation envelope as well, correct? Perhaps more efficiently than a resistive heating element, but still using electricity to move rather than generate heat.

I am going to have to stew on this for a few days. This is one reason LED lights are so efficient, correct? They don't waste a lot of consumed electrons as heat. I am going to have to figure out what my least efficient appliance is.

 

[Poindexter]

@EbS-P , we were mostly running 75 and 100 watt incandescent when we switched to CFLs.

 

[EbS-P]

I don't have a clear handle on how much of our electricity use is for lighting, refrigeration, laundry and dishwashing. Cooking.

In summer months we draw 12-14 kwh per day average, which seems to be well below average among my colleagues. The main things we do are only run full loads in the laundry machines and dishwasher, and when a freezer is getting low we'll park a couple water jugs in it to keep the freezers near full.

One variable is the head bolt heaters for the vehicles we park outside. Two vehicles, each draws about 1000w to warm up the battery, the engine oil and whichever pair of cylinders are nearest the special bolt with a wire coming out the top. I have those on timers, even at -40dF 2-3 hours plugged in and powered up is enough for a stress free engine start.

The really big variable at my house is how many kids are home. The only effective way I know of to teach kids about utility usage is to get them into an apartment where they have to pay their own utilities. Nothing else I have thought to try has made a hill of beans worth of difference.


The only electricity involved in heating my house is the convection deck fan on my wood stove, the ignitor in my oil burning furnace, the circuitry for the thermostats and the pump that moves hot water around in my baseboards. I do agree many many people do use electricity for heating or back up heating and it is a big chunk of the electric bill for many many people, but I probably spend more on lighting. There is also a pump that circulates water between my DHW holding tank and the hot water heating loop in my boiler, and more control circuitry on that.

There is a heating element in my clothes dryer and my dishwasher and all the elements in my electric cook stove, and the BTUs are inside my envelope; but I don't count those functions in my heating. I mean a little maybe. I don't do much baking in the summer because it does heat the house up.

I guess I do agree that making hot water inside the dishwasher is relatively high electric consumption compared to the water pump in the dishwasher, same for the drum motor versus heating element in the clothes dryer. In that sense, yes, I probably do use a fair amount of electricity to make "heat" but compared to the energy it takes to heat the house those are fairly trivial loads in my world.

I suspect refrigeration should be included as well. They are just small heatpumps, yes? Drawing electricity, turning a compressor, and pumping heat out of the insulated box and releasing that heat into my insulation envelope as well, correct? Perhaps more efficiently than a resistive heating element, but still using electricity to move rather than generate heat.

I am going to have to stew on this for a few days. This is one reason LED lights are so efficient, correct? They don't waste a lot of consumed electrons as heat. I am going to have to figure out what my least efficient appliance is.

I’m not too concerned with tracking every watt we consume. The monitors that allow that cost about a months worth of electricity. I already know how to lower my consumption the the monitor just provides some real time feedback. I do like to check my daily usage. But with a an EV that might or might not get plugged in and a day that might drive 10 miles or 50 it’s not really giving me teens worthy data.

No of the big CFLs would fit in any of my lights. House from the 60s had exactly 4 light fixtures for the entire house that were original to the 60s. (I guess they loved their lamps but every bedroom had a ceiling fan). The kitchen had 3 new lights. Hated how dark the house was. Love my flat panel skylight LEDs.

 

[SpaceBus]

Most of our electricity is used heating water and doing laundry. My partner draws at least one bath and takes one shower a day, usually filling the tub two or three times. She also likes to use hot water when doing the laundry, but I always use cold when I'm doing it. One of our dogs is 22 years old and can't hold her bladder that long anymore (Chihuahua-rat terrier mix), so we have a lot of "chucks" on our sofa and have to clean up a lot of small urine messes. This means we run a load or two of laundry every day. I noticed a huge spike in the bill ($50-100) when the chihuahua started losing her bladder control. This is a long way to say that most of our usage is centered around cleaning. I do have an older (2010) plasma TV (42" I think) and surround sound that are on most of the day for music and news. We try to keep the lights off during the day and everything is LED, but our old dog can't see very well, so sometimes the lights are on more than we need them to be. I also leave on our only exterior light over night sometimes, but I think that is overall negligible.

 

[stoveliker]

I don't have a clear handle on how much of our electricity use is for lighting, refrigeration, laundry and dishwashing. Cooking.

In summer months we draw 12-14 kwh per day average, which seems to be well below average among my colleagues. The main things we do are only run full loads in the laundry machines and dishwasher, and when a freezer is getting low we'll park a couple water jugs in it to keep the freezers near full.

One variable is the head bolt heaters for the vehicles we park outside. Two vehicles, each draws about 1000w to warm up the battery, the engine oil and whichever pair of cylinders are nearest the special bolt with a wire coming out the top. I have those on timers, even at -40dF 2-3 hours plugged in and powered up is enough for a stress free engine start.

The really big variable at my house is how many kids are home. The only effective way I know of to teach kids about utility usage is to get them into an apartment where they have to pay their own utilities. Nothing else I have thought to try has made a hill of beans worth of difference.


The only electricity involved in heating my house is the convection deck fan on my wood stove, the ignitor in my oil burning furnace, the circuitry for the thermostats and the pump that moves hot water around in my baseboards. I do agree many many people do use electricity for heating or back up heating and it is a big chunk of the electric bill for many many people, but I probably spend more on lighting. There is also a pump that circulates water between my DHW holding tank and the hot water heating loop in my boiler, and more control circuitry on that.

There is a heating element in my clothes dryer and my dishwasher and all the elements in my electric cook stove, and the BTUs are inside my envelope; but I don't count those functions in my heating. I mean a little maybe. I don't do much baking in the summer because it does heat the house up.

I guess I do agree that making hot water inside the dishwasher is relatively high electric consumption compared to the water pump in the dishwasher, same for the drum motor versus heating element in the clothes dryer. In that sense, yes, I probably do use a fair amount of electricity to make "heat" but compared to the energy it takes to heat the house those are fairly trivial loads in my world.

I suspect refrigeration should be included as well. They are just small heatpumps, yes? Drawing electricity, turning a compressor, and pumping heat out of the insulated box and releasing that heat into my insulation envelope as well, correct? Perhaps more efficiently than a resistive heating element, but still using electricity to move rather than generate heat.

I am going to have to stew on this for a few days. This is one reason LED lights are so efficient, correct? They don't waste a lot of consumed electrons as heat. I am going to have to figure out what my least efficient appliance is.

Yes, I meant all the heating in appliances. It adds up.

 

[peakbagger]

The term for small loads are either phantom loads or vampire loads. Those 24/7 loads that are always on are real killers in the long run. Off grid folks used to install outlets with switched and sometimes neon indicators to remind them to turn off phantom loads. I have light in my bulkhead "doghouse" that I use to store wood in the winter. The switch is in the basement side of the door. It happens quite often that i shut the door but leave the light on. I put an indicator type switch that has a small red light on it when the light in the bulkhead was left on and it usually reminds me to turn it off.

There is device called a Kill A Watt power meter for plug in 120 volt loads that works well for chasing plug in phamtoms. The new switchign power supplies do not have much standby loads but the old fashioned cube type plug in power supplies usually eat 3 to 5 watts, 24/7 365 days a year.

Cable modems and satellite modems (DIrect TV) are notorious for burning up a lot of power. They need to be plugged in 24/7 so the mothership can talk to them on rare occasions. Sometimes if they are unplugged they may take long to boot or require reinitialization.

If someone is comfortable with working in electrical panels and there is room in panel, there are everal home energy monitoring solutions that use clampon type sensors to read the power in electrical circuits. They usually talk to a computer application. They are great for looking at long term usage.

Other electrical energy wasters are water leaks. If on a pumped system, leaks in the house or in the well piping can be a mystery source of power use. The only way to catch the piping leaks is with anenergy monitor which will show frequent spikes when the pump needs to cycle to repressurize the system. The other expensive leak is on the hot water as the source of hot water has to cycle on and off. While on hot water, many electric hot water heaters do not have heat traps or heat loops on the outlet piping. If the pipes go vertical upwards from the tank, the hot water in the tank will rise up the pipe and give off heat to the basement. That may make the hot water a bit quicker to the sink but it heating the basement.

BTW, I am old school and I turn the lights off when I am not in the room. many folks do not.

 

[begreen]

BTW, I am old school and I turn the lights off when I am not in the room. many folks do not.

I have noted this more with the advent of low energy consumption LED lighting. It's like the diet Oreo symptom. "Oh, it's only 10 calories so now I can eat lots more without feeling guilty."

Another power hog can be old refrigeration. The old units may have been reliable, but there is a notable improvement in the insulation and efficiency in many modern refrigerators.

 

[woodgeek]

I turn off the lights while I am IN the room.

 

[stoveliker]

I turn off the lights while I am IN the room.

No Alexa to do it when you're outside the room? ;-)
(Me neither)

 

[stoveliker]

I'm not so sure about the phantom loads anymore. I have a bunch of wifi plugs that are programmable and measure energy usage. So my audio/tv equipment etc shuts off at night. (Good reminder to go to sleep, but it sucks when it switches when the movie isn't done yet....). That is all my equipment with the exception of my wifi (tv is hardwired).
All that uses 16 W when idling. That equates to 140 kWh per year if on full time.

A wifi extender switches off at night (it's in our bedroom for better signal in the backyard, but I don't need it at night in my bedroom). It uses 3 W. 26 kWh per year if always on.

I have my cellphone charger on one too. This is the prototypical example of a phantom load, according to everyone. It uses 1 W when idling. Less than 9 kWh per year if always on.

So 175 kWh per year if I would not switch it off overnight. Of the 5625 kWh I used in total last year (is total solar production minus what was added to my kWh credit bank) that's 3%. And that should then be cut in half (at least) because I need them at least half the day.

I find that negligible. These are (at least for me) NOT power burners I should be concerned about when looking at the total picture.

Is it waste? Yes. And therefore I switch them off when not needing them. This earth was not made to sustain waste.

I think if we all do this, we can make a tiny difference. (Cue the debate about production costs of wifi plugs etc. True. But I didn't know this before I bought them. And I use them to switch a few lights when we're traveling.)

But it's not a significant fraction of my power usage by any means.

 

[EbS-P]

Every 100w of 24/7 phantom load represents about .5-.7% of my usage. Bigger fish fry IMO.

I’m thinking about season large sun shades. I got a 10 X 20 for 38$. If I put it up to shade the sun off my 2 west ish side of the the house with two windows I bed it would make a decent deference June-august.

 

[stoveliker]

yes, sun shades on (the out-!) sides where you have multiple hours of sun on windows will make a large difference.
If these are the "window-hugging"-type (i.e. vertical rather than the type that booms out slightly below horizontal angles), then make sure that convection is possible behind the shades - it can get warm there, and to decrease the heat load on the windows it's best if that warm air can convect away.

This will make a huge difference. We did so in TN on the West side.

 

[EbS-P]

yes, sun shades on (the out-!) sides where you have multiple hours of sun on windows will make a large difference.
If these are the "window-hugging"-type (i.e. vertical rather than the type that booms out slightly below horizontal angles), then make sure that convection is possible behind the shades - it can get warm there, and to decrease the heat load on the windows it's best if that warm air can convect away.

This will make a huge difference. We did so in TN on the West side.

I need to decrease the heat load on the masonry too. It get over 120