Hutch Rebel ??

[T Heck]

I recently bought a Hutch Rebel for my wood work shop. It was purchased new in 1983 for $469. It has a baffle inside and appears to be have been used very little. You can see the pictures to see how I installed it. The fire has to be hot for it to draw good. I added a piece of pipe to make it a little taller as you can see. Could the cap be causing it not to draw good. Unless it’s real hot, when you open the door, smoke comes out. Thanks.

 

[DAKSY]

Looks like you have installed stove (connector) pipe
on the outside of the structure.
You should be using Class A chimney from the wall
pass thru ALL the way to the cap on the outside.
Your stove will probably draft a LOT better with an
insulated chimney.
Besides, connector pipe on the outside is NOT a
Code Compliant install.

 

[T Heck]

Thanks for the info.

 

[bholler]

Get yourself a chimney and it will work better

 

[T Heck]

Sounds like I should of got on here before installing. Will I have to go from the stove out or pick up outside.

 

[DAKSY]

Sounds like I should of got on here before installing. Will I have to go from the stove out or pick up outside.

The FIRST wall penetration needs to be Class A Chimney.
Look at the image on the right.

 

[T Heck]

We poured the concrete around a piece of the pipe to go thru wall. No one had a thimble in our area so I assumed it would work. Will it be possible to connect class a pipe to this? Thanks for the diagram. I had a friend help and he had done his similar to mine. First install for me.

 

[coaly]

The connector pipe inside is ok as long as the horizontal run is pitched upward towards the chimney by at least 1/4 inch per foot.

You need a "Through the wall" kit which will have the wall thimble where it passes through wall, an outside tee with support for chimney weight, and cap for cleaning at the bottom along with spark csreen on cap at top. Then you buy as many chimney sections as you need. The single wall pipe connects inside to the chimney pipe at the wall connection. A "Through the roof" kit is much cheaper and the connector pipe inside goes into a ceiling support box which starts the chimney. They also draft better straight up and you won't have to possibly notch the roof overhang for an exterior chimney. An exterior chimney cools more since more is exposed outside even though it has an inner insulated stainless flue pipe.

Chimneys are stainless inside to prevent rust from the moisture created from combustion.
2 types of prefab chimney are a cheaper triple wall with a thin insulation blanket around inner flue pipe, or a "pack" chimney which is an inner flue with dense heavy insulation between thinner and outer pipe casing. The double wall type is smaller outer diameter since it is only 1 inch thick ( 6 inch inside is 8 outside) compared to the triple wall with 1 inch between each of the pipes making it 10 inch diameter outside. The double wall stays hotter inside for a more efficient chimney. The easier you can keep the flue hot, the less fuel you need to burn to allow the waste heat to heat the chimney.

The reason you want it to stay hot inside, and not cool like your single wall pipe does now is the object is to keep the inner flue gas temp above 250*f to the top. Below that critical temperature, water vapor from combustion condenses on flue walls allowing smoke particles to stick. This forms creosote. As you learned, a stove won't work without a temperature differential between the inside and outside of chimney. Single wall pipe cools the rising flue gasses, they slow down or stop, and does not create the low pressure in the pipe and stove needed to make the stove burn inside.

The rising gasses create a low pressure area in pipe and stove that allows the higher atmospheric air pressure to PUSH into the stove. This is measured as draft. The greater the temperature differential, the stronger the draft and the more you can close the air, burning slower with less waste up the chimney. So the chimney becomes the engine that drives the stove. It is more important than the stove itself. Get a good one and any stove will work much better.

Your flue damper inside is to slow an over drafting chimney. It is a restriction that slows the velocity of the rising gasses. Without a chimney you need to leave it open for as much heat as you can get up the stack to create the low pressure area in the stove required to make it go. The more efficient the stove, the more efficient the chimney needs to be since it won't get as much heat left up to stay above that critical temp.

You will need a pipe thermometer on the single wall stove pipe to tell when you're burning the correct temperature to keep the chimney hot enough. This is only when smoke is present that it can form creosote. Too hot is wasted heat that could have radiated into the building, not hot enough is creosote forming.

 

[coaly]

Masonry needs to be 1 foot thick to any combustible material. 12 inches from the flue gasses to combustible material. Doesn't look like you have that.

 

[T Heck]

Thanks for all the info coaly. May end up going they the roof. Thanks again.

 

[T Heck]

Would it work to go to 6” instead of 8”? It’s not probably a couple pieces of pipe or less to the ceiling.

 

[coaly]

The difference between 6 and 8 is a larger chimney has more capacity. Going straight up and being tall enough makes up for that many times. It’s usually not a problem since most stoves
are not ran at full capacity anyway. You’ll find many stoves being sold with a reducer that have worked well for years. It is technically against code to reduce smaller than the outlet size of the stove. This is written into codes assuming all stoves have the smallest outlet on them for efficiency. Years ago some were made with larger outlets for connecting to a larger flue made for a fireplace. They made sure there was plenty heat loss to keep the larger flue hot enough. With a smaller insulated flue needed less heat, reducing generally isn’t a problem.

Does the building pictured have a finished ceiling the same height as the lower roof, or is there an open loft above the higher part? I notice a gable vent at the top. Does this vent an unheated attic?
When a stove is installed in a low room like that attached to a taller house with second floor or open loft, the heat rising away from stove inside competes with chimney. This is called stack effect and can cause smoke issues inside if it rises away from stove fast enough. This is normally due to leaks such as an open window or other heat leaks like the vent pictured if the heated air can rise into that area above stove room.

I would install a 6 inch chimney. If you go to a newer stove, most recommend the smaller chimney and you don’t have a larger area needing the capacity for a larger stove. Years ago the NFPA Standard that codes were adopted from allowed 1 inch reduction. The International Code that most states, including yours adopted added no reduction is allowed at all. This code also requires all appliances to be UL Listed with a UL tag affixed. This will give clearances to combustible materials as well. Does this stove have a UL tag on the back? Clearances look too close for an unlisted stove that requires 36 inches.