Hybrid populars for a renewable fuel

[mwk1000]

I though of the forum when I got this link. Seems like a reasonable way for many to get some or all of their wood. I studied Popular/Aspen in college an learned they grow with a shared root system in "clones" so this seems plausible to me.

Wondering if anyone has tried it or knows more about it ???

This site shows a way to get 5 cords/year by rotating the harvesting of 4-6 inch diameter popular ( no - splitting). These are ready in 4 years due to the rapid growth rate. So with a few acres a typical home could have enough wood for a season.

Factoring in the lower BTU quality it still seems like one of the higher production lowest work -- more practical ways ( A chainsaw and a wagon ) to feed the home heat. The site has a pretty detailed breakdown of how to go about it.

Cheers, Interested in any comments

(broken link removed to http://www.frysvillefarms.com/independence.htm)

 

[woodsmaster]

It would take a lot of trees that size to make 4 cord. There is a lot less btus / cord than hardwood.
I'd probably need about 15 cord a year. Thats a lot of work but may be ok for people looking to grow some fast firewood if they have the land.

 

[mwk1000]

It would take a lot of trees that size to make 4 cord. There is a lot less btus / cord than hardwood.
I'd probably need about 15 cord a year. Thats a lot of work but may be ok for people looking to grow some fast firewood if they have the land.

I thought so too, but according to their web site 1 acre produces 3 cords then 5 cords once established you cut 25% of an acre each year to get it. But you would need more as you say since it's about 1/2 the btu's of good hardwood. So 2 acres would give 10 full cords after 4 years from then on. I just don't know if it's more work, you only handle it once if there is no splitting involved.

Still the equivalent btu's of 5 full cords of hardwood in only 2 acres that keeps on giving year after year is something to consider.

 

[martyinmi]

A lot of the topsoil in our area is "muck", and years age the mint farmers planted Willow trees on all sides of the fields in an effort to prevent soil erosion from the wind. Their btu output is a little lower than poplars. I mix the Willow with Ash, Oak, Walnut, or whatever other higher btu woods I might have at the time at a 50/50 or so ratio and it burns very well. I just make sure to put some of the denser wood on top(my OWB is a gasser) so that I'll have a good coal bed for the next batch.
The Willow is free to me, there is an unending supply of it, and it is only 1/4 - 1/2 mile from my home. The ash from Willow APPEARS to be lighter than some of the more dense hardwoods, so I can extend heat exchange tube cleaning frequency's when using it, as more of it seems to blow through.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

I though of the forum when I got this link. Seems like a reasonable way for many to get some or all of their wood. I studied Popular/Aspen in college an learned they grow with a shared root system in "clones" so this seems plausible to me.

Wondering if anyone has tried it or knows more about it ???

This site shows a way to get 5 cords/year by rotating the harvesting of 4-6 inch diameter popular ( no - splitting). These are ready in 4 years due to the rapid growth rate. So with a few acres a typical home could have enough wood for a season.

Factoring in the lower BTU quality it still seems like one of the higher production lowest work -- more practical ways ( A chainsaw and a wagon ) to feed the home heat. The site has a pretty detailed breakdown of how to go about it.

Cheers, Interested in any comments

(broken link removed to http://www.frysvillefarms.com/independence.htm)

Pulp mills in this area are using several varieties of hybrid poplar as feed stock, stuff literally grows like weeds. Currently they are seeing 25 years to maturity, ready for harvest as pulp stock....so yes if you want 4-6" butts you are prob looking at 4-5 year cycle, maybe less further south.

 

[heaterman]

We planted about 5 acres of them 20 years ago and they really didn't pan out all that well. They seemed to be so soft that about anything like a heavy wind or snow would break them off. They seldom reached more than 5-6" on the stump and 30' tall before they just flat out died. We cleared about half of the area now but the remaining acreage is nothing but a tangled mass of broken trees and sticks. Good cover for rabbits and grouse.
Packaging Corporation of America (a big wood pulp company at the time) planted a couple sections of them near here and they are still sitting there as we speak. All broken off, rotten and dead. They never even bothered to harvest them. My hunch is that to have them perform as advertised, you have to treat them like a crop. Fertilizer, soil prep for PH, herbicide the first couple years etc.
Maybe there are other varieties out there that hold up better.

 

[BoilerMan]

Pulp mills in this area are using several varieties of hybrid poplar as feed stock, stuff literally grows like weeds. Currently they are seeing 25 years to maturity, ready for harvest as pulp stock....so yes if you want 4-6" butts you are prob looking at 4-5 year cycle, maybe less further south.

Same here in northern Maine. There is a Huber plant, which makes Advantec, OSB, and Zip Sheets. All of which are made entirely of Trembeling or Quacking Aspen also known as Poplar. It's everywhere around here choking off good hardwood in most cases. Cut it, and it regenerates from the roots as stated and it comes right back. We cut some for a fundraiser for a missions trip to Haiti last year. The mill paid us by the ton. I cut some on my property and burned it, but the volume of wood is much greater for the same given heat, but it is easy to light, almost like pine, but with less somke. Smells like dirty feet if it's wet though.
Taylor

 

[maple1]

P-o-p-l-a-r.

 

[BoilerMan]

P-o-p-l-a-r.

Wow, never noticed we all spelled it wrong

 

[SmokeEater]

Some years ago we planted a few thousand of these hybrids and what was planted weren't rooted trees, but instead were cuttings about 1 foot in length with buds along the length. You just punched a hole and heeled them in about 2/3 rds of their length. Most all started and grew very fast, but they needed some early care. Too much competition from other plants set them back, so they needed a garden approach in the first year. After that anything goes, but I don't think they reached 4 to 5 in diameter in that many years. After they were cut, new growth comes off the stump and we used those cuttings to plant for new growth. If you leave a new sprout on the old stump you'll get some wicked fast growth of the top and this is were they shine. New growth would be near 15 feet in a couple of years on the old stump. In 5 you could cut a decent small diameter tree from that growth. You have to "tend" this garden just like any crop, but tended they will grow a lot of fiber in a short time.

 

[mwk1000]

Some years ago we planted a few thousand of these hybrids and what was planted weren't rooted trees, but instead were cuttings about 1 foot in length with buds along the length. You just punched a hole and heeled them in about 2/3 rds of their length. Most all started and grew very fast, but they needed some early care. Too much competition from other plants set them back, so they needed a garden approach in the first year. After that anything goes, but I don't think they reached 4 to 5 in diameter in that many years. After they were cut, new growth comes off the stump and we used those cuttings to plant for new growth. If you leave a new sprout on the old stump you'll get some wicked fast growth of the top and this is were they shine. New growth would be near 15 feet in a couple of years on the old stump. In 5 you could cut a decent small diameter tree from that growth. You have to "tend" this garden just like any crop, but tended they will grow a lot of fiber in a short time.

Sound like what they advertise, they are recommending tilling the soil and weed block/spray to offset the competition in the first year. Exactly like a crop. I started off the spelling wrong ! Can't spl worth a damn.

 

[woodsmaster]

mkw 1000 There used to be a spell check. Im not a good speller either, I down loaded one for my browser and it disapeared. I guess it wasn't ment to be.You'll just have to put up with my dumbness when it comes to spelling.

 

[DaveBP]

Populus in Latin. Poplar in English. Makes for an easy hybrid word as well as plant.

 

[muncybob]

I've been burning poplar for the first time these last few weeks since heat demand is very low. True, you would be spilitting less but I don't see how you would save much work as the wood burns so quickly and is so low in btu that I am guessing you would burn twice as much. I am surprised at how much I am using up just for dhw and taking the morning chill off.

For the heating season, I would rather split and burn good hardwoods..... as long as they are readily available.

 

[goosegunner]

I think I would rather plant some Black Locust. It grows pretty fast and spreads like weeds. It also regrows really fast. We cut and treated the stumps because it was over taking a pine plantation.

Little did we know at the time, should have kept the locust growing and spreading.


gg

 

[711mhw]

I think I would rather plant some Black Locust. It grows pretty fast and spreads like weeds. It also regrows really fast. We cut and treated the stumps because it was over taking a pine plantation.

Little did we know at the time, should have kept the locust growing and spreading.


gg

With you on the Locust! They are a pretty fast grower also.

 

[SmokeEater]

I've been burning poplar for the first time these last few weeks since heat demand is very low. True, you would be spilitting less but I don't see how you would save much work as the wood burns so quickly and is so low in btu that I am guessing you would burn twice as much. I am surprised at how much I am using up just for dhw and taking the morning chill off.

For the heating season, I would rather split and burn good hardwoods..... as long as they are readily available.

This may sound dumb, but my understanding of energy in wood has to do with the weight of dried wood of any kind. The btu/lb number in my head is just under 8000 for bone dry wood. A 20% MC dry cord of maple weighs about 3000 lbs and a cord of 20% MC dry poplar weighs about 2000 lbs. All I would think is that if you only had poplar to burn, it would be fine in deep winter or shoulder season. You'd just burn one and a half times as much poplar for the same heat as one unit of maple, same MC. Locust would be much better because it's a lot denser than poplar.

 

[muncybob]

jimmy, makes sense to me. The maple you refer to is soft or hard? The poplar I've been burning seems to burn up twice as fast as the ash we used all winter....in any case, you certainly will go thru a lot more wood with the softer/lower btu trees. I'm glad i have this wood on hand for the low demand time of year.

 

[SmokeEater]

jimmy, makes sense to me. The maple you refer to is soft or hard? The poplar I've been burning seems to burn up twice as fast as the ash we used all winter....in any case, you certainly will go thru a lot more wood with the softer/lower btu trees. I'm glad i have this wood on hand for the low demand time of year.

muncybob, good question on the maple. My reference was to red or soft maple which is a few hundred pounds lighter than, say green, ash per cord. Green ash is at about 3200 lb/cord and quaking aspen, poplar, is about 2000 lb/cord and both with an MC of 20% or so.

 

[slim]

how well does it dry unsplit?

 

[Fred61]

how well does it dry unsplit?

Four years! It helps to cut a groove in the bark the entire length of the piece with the tip of your chain.

 

[pybyr]

I cut a very big poplar a couple of years ago. Got well over a cord out of the one tree but what a colossal waste of effort and space. Burned too fast, created less coals than anything else i've tried burning (which really hobbles the burn in a downdraft) created lots of ash, and created very little heat. Would never burn the stuff again unless someone gave me an endless supply that they cut split seasoned and stacked for me at no cost

 

[begreen]

I always avoided poplar until ours blew down a couple winters ago. Figuring free wood is free wood, I cut it up and dried it. To my surprise it burned pretty well. Agreed it is not something I would burn mid-winter, but for shoulder season burning I like it.

 

[Wood Duck]

I don't think the wood from those fast-growing hybrid poplars would be the same as wood from a Quaking or Bigtooth Aspen. The wild aspens grow more slowly, and i think their wood is OK, but the fast-growing hybrids seem different to me.

My main problem with the hybrid poplar scheme is the acres of uninteresting, ugly, uniform, wildlife-poor woodlands you'd have to plant. I would much rather have to buy a little more land and have a natural mix of whatever trees grow naturally as my firewood supply. In addition with the native trees I'd have a much more disease-resistant woodland, a more interesting place to walk, more wildlife, better firewood, and more variety of wood products than I'd get with a stand of hybrid poplars.

 

[slowzuki]

I burn a lot of poplar, both the the lombardy/hybrid stuff that is free from everyone that planted it 20-30 years ago as soon as the first one falls on their house or car and the local 2 types of poplar/aspen. I learned to wait until they hire the tree removal service and ask them to block it up. Its about 2-1 cord wise vs hardwood but you have to be right on top of reloading as there is no coals.

Quick to split with an axe once the chunks dry although I use the splitter on knotted sections. Like someone said its stinks while drying. I don't bother with pieces less than 3 or 4" in diameter.

We are clearing a fence row right now and there is a mix of poplar/aspen/white birch/cherry. It will heat my house next winter as it dries very quickly. You have to be careful as it gets wet again very quickly too. Can't get wet in the fall or its garbage for burning.

EDIT the best system for aspen/poplar etc that I've seen is a guy in PEI, he and his neighbour have wood chip boilers. They top in the woods and skid to a landing next to the storage bin in the winter, it dries over the summer then a 3 point hitch chipper with grapple on it pulls the trees into the throat and spits it into the bin. Air circulates and dries it more. Small stems just get grabbed in bundles to feed in.