I didn't know this: Cat vs non-Cat

[bholler]

It would be small for sure but if it’s enough then it’s a great tool for the job.

But honestly 1.5 cubic feet of good hardwood only has about 270000 BTUs. Even a very well packed stove will only be atmost 80% filled. So 216000 at 80% efficency. So 182700 BTUs over 12 hours is under 15000 BTUs per hour. That is very little btu load.

 

[SpaceBus]

I’ve been thinking about getting a spare cat after hearing about Woodstock’s supply problems.

This is a real drawback. What if you can’t get a new cat?

That was my whole point.

 

[rdust]

Maybe stoves of the future will have a cat more similar to a diesel particulate filter with regen. During periods of high use a secondary air can be opened to burn the accumulated particulates and creosote. That kind of system would probably be way too expensive, but it would solve exhaust temps.

I certainly hope not, I work in the diesel industry and if you think replacing the current cats are expensive buckle up!

I have a 2004 Silverado diesel pick up for hauling wood and my 5th wheel, I daily drive a 2001 VW Jetta TDI. Both Pre-EPA07 for a reason.

 

[Diabel]

I think @Woody Stover gets more than 12 hour burns from his sub 1.5 cubic foot Woodstock cat stove.

The keystone. I think it is slightly bigger. But it sounds like a great heater.
I think my VC performs at par with the keystone.

 

[begreen]

So just in response to you bg, I think it is penny wise and pound foolish to complain about cat cost if you consider the value of wood saved against the cost of that cat. Almost everybody that has made the switch to a cat stove reports significant wood savings. Fuel has value and that savings should be counted towards the cost of the cat.

I don’t see why this isn’t obvious.

I do understand that every once in a while somebody doesn’t seem to save wood when burning a cat stove but most do. If you don’t believe that then a quick poll is in order. I save over 20%.

Maybe I’m missing something?

A $1000 worth of wood is a lot of wood. Some folks are on fixed or low income so this expense means something. FWIW, $1000 is probably more than we will have spent maintaining our car in 10 yrs.

The savings will vary with burning. When a cat stove is being pushed for heat the advantage and reduced consumption is much less. For some folks they are only burning with the stove pushed for heat so the advantage is reduced.

I am not anti-cat. For some folks it is a good fit, especially those that are away from homes for a long time and are trying to heat solely with wood. But they are not the best for everyone, nor a great saving for some.

 

[Highbeam]

A $1000 worth of wood is a lot of wood. Some folks are on fixed or low income so this expense means something. FWIW, $1000 is probably more than we will have spent maintaining our car in 10 yrs.

The savings will vary with burning. When a cat stove is being pushed for heat the advantage and reduced consumption is much less. For some folks they are only burning with the stove pushed for heat so the advantage is reduced.

I am not anti-cat. For some folks it is a good fit. But it is not the best for everyone, nor a great saving for some.

1000$ is not even enough to buy a one year supply of wood. If a guy is burning enough hours per year to wear a cat out in 3 years then he is burning 4-5 cords minimum. You can actually do the math on that one! Current market rate in the puget sound is 250$ per cord.

I think your math is in error anyway. Not sure where you got 1000$ from.

 

[begreen]

It's enough to buy us more than a year's worth of wood. We only go through about 2- 2.5 cords a year.

 

[Highbeam]

But honestly 1.5 cubic feet of good hardwood only has about 270000 BTUs. Even a very well packed stove will only be atmost 80% filled. So 216000 at 80% efficency. So 182700 BTUs over 12 hours is under 15000 BTUs per hour. That is very little btu load.

15000 btu per hour. Divide by 3.? to get into watts. That means his teensy output is actually equivalent to a 5000 watt resistance heater! That’s not nothing. How great it must be to have a stove capable of running so low.

 

[Woody Stover]

I think @Woody Stover gets more than 12 hour burns from his sub 1.5 cubic foot Woodstock cat stove.

Yes but the btu output of that small amount of wood over that time would be absolutely tiny.

Well, a bit more output than "tiny" but yes, it has to be mild out for me to get away with that in my leaky, thermal-mass house, even though it's only 1000sq.ft...like low 40s daytime, upper 20s at night. Then I can keep it within a couple degrees of 70 on two loads a day. Just Red Oak, not primo wood.

What if you can’t get a new cat?

Yeah, I've been thinking I should have a tube stove as my backup, not another cat stove like I do now..

 

[bholler]

15000 btu per hour. Divide by 3.? to get into watts. That means his teensy output is actually equivalent to a 5000 watt resistance heater! That’s not nothing. How great it must be to have a stove capable of running so low.

No not nothing. It would heat a room in most houses

 

[weatherguy]

I’ve been thinking about getting a spare cat after hearing about Woodstock’s supply problems.

This is a real drawback. What if you can’t get a new cat?

I still have my original in case of emergency but been trying to buy one of the new ones for awhile.

 

[rdust]

Just Red Oak, not primo wood.

That is my primo wood!

 

[bholler]

That is my primo wood!

Red oak is my average wood as well.

 

[rdust]

Red oak is my average wood as well.

My average wood is soft maple, good wood ash and red oak. I do have some white oak and black locust in the wings but not enough to brag about.

 

[SpaceBus]

I have a small stash of paper birch, maple, and ash, but otherwise I burn spruce because that's what's here. I'm very jealous of you guys with plentiful oak! I wish I had enough maple and birch to use as my primary wood.

 

[Highbeam]

It's enough to buy us more than a year's worth of wood. We only go through about 2- 2.5 cords a year.

Where do keep coming up with this 1000$ figure?

Since you’re only a part time burner you also wouldn’t need a new cat every three years. Probably every 5-6 years due to your part time burning. It’s 52 out right now, you’re probably using your furnace. Not me.

 

[Diabel]

Well yeah a stove that small will have short burn times.

My VC is (I believe 1.8) and I can easily get 12h from it (real heat).

 

[Highbeam]

My VC is (I believe 1.8) and I can easily get 12h from it (real heat).

You mean almost enough for one room?

 

[bholler]

My VC is (I believe 1.8) and I can easily get 12h from it (real heat).

At 1.8 cuft over 12 hours it simply can't put out that many BTUs. It is simple physics

 

[Diabel]

You mean almost enough for one room?

Correct. It is a space heater.

 

[Diabel]

At 1.8 cuft over 12 hours it simply can't put out that many BTUs. It is simple physics

Agree. The 2.8 Princess seem to release similar btus but over a longer time frame (around 18 to 20 hrs).

 

[lsucet]

Cat stoves are better at some things, tube stoves better at others. Cat stoves seem like the way to go in a milder climate. If you have a well insulated house, a tube stove could work too as you would only need a couple of small fires a day. It all depends on how you like to solve problems.

But that is the time that many don't have. Make 2 to 3 fires a day is something for retired people or if someone is at home 24/7 that can tend the stove. Including if you don't save any wood in comparison, the fact that you can run just one load or if is cold two loads a day is a big advantage. More for some of us that don't have any other heat sources. If I can flip a switch or program other heating source, I am sure that maybe I will see it different.

 

[bholler]

Agree. The 2.8 Princess seem to release similar btus but over a longer time frame (around 18 to 20 hrs).

Yes and burning that long I have found even in the mid 40s the princess can't maintain temps in my house

 

[bholler]

But that is the time that many don't have. Make 2 to 3 fires a day is something for retired people or if someone is at home 24/7 that can tend the stove. Including if you don't save any wood in comparison, the fact that you can run just one load or if is cold two loads a day is a big advantage. More for some of us that don't have any other heat sources. If I can flip a switch or program other heating source, I am sure that maybe I will see it different.

I worked full time and headed with a noncat for many years as do the majority of people who heat with wood. It really isn't nearly as difficult as you guys make it out to be

 

[lsucet]

I worked full time and headed with a noncat for many years as do the majority of people who heat with wood. It really isn't nearly as difficult as you guys make it out to be

Of course it can be done and I agree, but I believe that cat can have an advantage on those situations. The last stove that I have before the princess was 3.2cf if remember correctly. When I was able to packed full and give me decent hours, 5 hrs later everything start dropping. Stove and house temperature regardless that can had coals for 10 hrs or more. Now is more nice and stable heat, the house staying nicer. At 10 hrs mark now I can open the air and get flames and a hot fire out of what still in there and dial it down again. Most mornings that's my routine at 5:30 AM. I don't know but for me is way better.