I think I have a problem with Over Draft with my Englands 50-snc-30LC Stove

[Dennis 2]

The problem is the burning time of the stove . Let me say first that I tried E/W, N/S, trench , no trench . box load , 1/2 loaded with the same results .
With a nice bed of coal( all red hot),I laid the wood E/W etc. With the door closed, the wood will start burning really fast whether or not the air control is all the way opened or opened slightly. Even almost closed it will go up to 600 degrees.
Wood will burn up to red hot coals in about an hour or 1 1/2 hours .
Last night 2AM, I filled the box up E/W , pushed the air control almost closed ( rod out about an inch), waited about 3min. and closed it down ( all the way in). At 7am the coal was almost burnt up (ash).
I checked the stove to see if any light was showing from outside the stove(lights off) etc. Nothing!!
I noticed that the ash plug doesn’t sit in the hole very well . So I took out the ash pan ( with the lights out ), drawer out, and checked to see if there was any light from the coals showing through. Didn’t see any, but if it was blocked with ash, I wouldn’t see any, right? Seems like it's getting too much air to burn up that fast. I figured that after a two- hour burn, I should have some wood left and not just hot coals. I think I should be getting a much longer burn, right?

I checked the door gasket for air leaks with the dollar bill method . It does slip easily all along the door hinge area. I used an incense stick to see if the smoke would be sucked into the stove from the door area that I checked. It didn't seem to, but could this still be part of the problem?
The other thing I noticed, was the ash plug didn't fit into the ash pan hole ( it would rock back and forth). I sanded down the plug, so now it sits in the hole which will stop any air leaks from that area . It seems that I'm getting too much draft, which BrotherBart agrees with. Corie from Engand's Stove Works (Head of Research and Development ) had a post stating that installing a barometric damper would be a good idea: "The little flapper door has weights that adjust how much air is added to dilute the flue gases and slow down the draft. Really really sweet units. I think any situation where there is a strong draft should have one, just because it equalizes everything and helps the fire burn longer and with more consistent heat."
Other people say to use a maunal dampner. I'm leaning toward a barometric damper. I work nights and sleep during the day, so I'm the only one tending the stove. I'm hoping for at least a 3 or 4 hour burn at around 500 or 550 degrees , which I think I should get . I was getting a 31/2 hour, 550 to 600 burn with my 1981 VC Vigilant .
I called and e-mailed Mike at England’s Stove Works to see what he thinks, but haven't heard back from him yet. I realize that they're busy this time of the year, but I hope to hear from him soon!

 

[begreen]

Hi Dennis, I don't have the stove, so I need to ask some generic questions. Does the stove have a gasket on the ash pan? If yes has that been checked? Has the ashpan been checked to be sure it is bolted on tightly?

If this is a draft question, have you tried restricting some of the incoming air to the stove via the outside air entry where the outside air kit is connected? Before spending money on a flue damper, I would try restricting the air intake by say half. I think you can use some metal tape for this - temporary - experiment. If the stove starts responding nicely, then a more permanent solution can be worked out. If not, it may need a closer look for air leaks.

 

[Dennis 2]

Hi BeGreen . Stove doesn't use a gasket system . It has a cast iron plug that fits into hole at the bottom of the stove . you have to pull out the plug to sweep the ash into the pan .
I checked the door gasket for air leaks with the dollar bill method . It does slip easily all along the door hinge area( very little resistance). I used an incense stick to see if the smoke would be sucked into the stove from the door area that I checked. It didn’t seem to, but could this still be part of the problem even though it doesn't seem to leak?
I can slow down the burn with the air control . But even closed all the way( at around 400) the wood burns up to hot coals in a two hour period . I don't have a uncontrollable fire . I just can't get 500to600 degree burns over two hours ,and forget about long burns .

 

[Corie]

Stupid Question #1 - The ceramic baffle board and tubes are in the stove, correct?

Stupid Question #2 - What type of wood are you burning?

We get that stove to burn upwards of 10 hours in the lab, so you are WAY out of the ballpark. I'm not sure if it's overdraft, dry wood, some operator error (doesn't sound like it), or perhaps a mix of one or two?

 

[Dennis 2]

Hi Corie
The ceramic baffle board and tubes are in the stove.
I'm burning Oak .
My SS chimney is around 23 to 26 ft . I don't think I'm doing anything wrong . Closed or open it goes through wood fast . Hope you can help .

 

[Corie]

Hrmmm.

It does sound like you're simply getting too much combustion air. You don't have an excessive chimney, so I doubt draft is the problem. Having the draft checking though, is easy for any chimney sweep. Perhaps that should be step one for you?

Also, make sure that dump plug is installed tight and that no air can leak around it. The lose gasket on the hinge side, do you see evidence of air leaking through? Can you take a picture of the stove with the door open?

Otherwise, I'm going to have to ponder on this one a while.

 

[Dennis 2]

I'll take a picture of the stove with the door open. I don't see evidence of the air leaking at the door...but it could be.

 

[begreen]

Corie, would restricting the intake air by say 50% at the OAK connection be a valid test? It would seem that if this made no difference, then the stove is getting air from another location?

The other question I have for Dennis is what size are the splits that are being burned?

 

[Dennis 2]

Pic's of inside stove . One is a pic of the ash plug removed

 

[Dennis 2]

B Green , I tried all differant size splits 3 to 8in.

 

[Dennis 2]

Corie ,I just put a flash light inside the stove ,and turned off the room lights. Looking alone the hinge side of the stove I can see light and the inside of the stove between the gasket and the stove . guess this is not a good sign. this stove is new with a new gasket . I hope the hinge mounts aren't to long .But would this be enough to cause the short burns .

 

[BrotherBart]

Corie ,I just put a flash light inside the stove ,and turned off the room lights. Looking alone the hinge side of the stove I can light and the inside of the stove between the gasket and the stove . guess this is not a good sign. this stove is new with a new gasket . I hope the hinge mounts aren't to long .But would this be enough to cause the short burns .

Open the door all the way and put a straight edge flat on each place that the gasket contacts the door up and down on the sides and side to side on the top and bottom. See if you can see light between the face of the stove and the straight edge. On my first one the face of the stove was bowed in across the bottom of the door opening and it got too much air.

 

[Dennis 2]

Ok I'll try it

 

[Dennis 2]

Corie ,I just put a flash light inside the stove ,and turned off the room lights. Looking alone the hinge side of the stove I can light and the inside of the stove between the gasket and the stove . guess this is not a good sign. this stove is new with a new gasket . I hope the hinge mounts aren't to long .But would this be enough to cause the short burns .

Open the door all the way and put a straight edge flat on each place that the gasket contacts the door up and down on the sides and side to side on the top and bottom. See if you can see light between the face of the stove and the straight edge. On my first one the face of the stove was bowed in across the bottom of the door opening and it got too much air.

Maybe a 1/32 0f an inch. Nothing that a Gasket couldn't seal

 

[BrotherBart]

Corie ,I just put a flash light inside the stove ,and turned off the room lights. Looking alone the hinge side of the stove I can light and the inside of the stove between the gasket and the stove . guess this is not a good sign. this stove is new with a new gasket . I hope the hinge mounts aren't to long .But would this be enough to cause the short burns .

Open the door all the way and put a straight edge flat on each place that the gasket contacts the door up and down on the sides and side to side on the top and bottom. See if you can see light between the face of the stove and the straight edge. On my first one the face of the stove was bowed in across the bottom of the door opening and it got too much air.

Maybe a 1/32 0f an inch. Nothing that a Gasket couldn't seal

On the hinge side right?

 

[Dennis 2]

Bart , I checked it again with another stright edge and it seems fine

 

[Jeepman]

Hi Dennis 2, This is my first post, but I have a nearly identical set-up and draft problem. (I also work nights) I installed a manual damper and like it. I usually run my stove with the air control all the way open and the damper closed (it does not shut off completely). I open the damper when loading or when burning wet wood to ge it going. This is the first I have heard of a barometric damper it sounds expensive. With a full load it will burn 10hrs plus and have plenty of coals left to get the next load going.

 

[Gunner]

If you are indeed burning a full load of oak 3.5 cuft in a couple of hours your stovetop temps would be off the charts...you would need an approach suit to walk near that stove.

What are the stovetop temps? Flue gas?

 

[Dennis 2]

just fired the stove up an hour ago. I closed off the air leak( or at least I think I did) with heavy Aluminum foil closed in side the door ,running along the gasket.just to see if it would make a differance . I have a temp gage 18" up the pipe which reads 380 and one temp gage on top of the stove in front of the pipe which reads 575 . This is with the air control rod pulled out only an inch . Something isn't right.....

 

[Gunner]

just fired the stove up an hour ago. I closed off the air leak( or at least I think I did) with heavy Aluminum foil closed in side the door ,running along the gasket.just to see if it would make a differance . I have a temp gage 18" up the pipe which reads 380 and one temp gage on top of the stove in front of the pipe which reads 575 . This is with the air control rod pulled out only an inch . Something isn't right.....

575 stovetop, 380 stack temp sounds about perfect to me. You have a tall stack and strong draft...I'm in the same boat. Close the air all the way down if need be.

1 Load big splits and load them tight together.
2 Don't let a fresh load char as long before closing the air down
3 load e/w
4 dollar bill test around the door
5 make sure that ash plug is covered with plenty of fine ash to seal it

 

[Dennis 2]

If you are indeed burning a full load of oak 3.5 cuft in a couple of hours your stovetop temps would be off the charts...you would need an approach suit to walk near that stove.



just fired the stove up an hour ago. I closed off the air leak( or at least I think I did) with heavy Aluminum foil closed in side the door ,running along the gasket.just to see if it would make a differance . I have a temp gage 18” up the pipe which reads 380 and one temp gage on top of the stove in front of the pipe which reads 575 . This is with the air control rod pulled out only an inch . Something isn’t right.....

I just pushed in the air rod. Its only opened a little over a 1/4 of an in. Pipe 325,stove 500

 

[begreen]

Sounds like it's responding. Next question is burn time length. How much wood is in this load?

 

[Dennis 2]

Sounds like it's responding. Next question is burn time length. How much wood is in this load?

Its been running for about two hours . I just toped it off since I'm about to go to sleep ( work nights) . I'll let you know who it goes . Still seems to go through wood , but a little better with the leak sealed with the foil .

 

[michaelthomas]

I just bought the same stove. Should I worry about chimney height with my installation. It is going in a single level room with an interior insulated chimney. Craig had mentioned that it should be 12' over the roof line. Anybody know the ideal chimney ht for this stove. Manual says at least 15'. How do you sweep a chimney that is 12' above the chimney? Thanks

 

[MichaelS]

I just bought the same stove. Should I worry about chimney height with my installation. It is going in a single level room with an interior insulated chimney. Craig had mentioned that it should be 12' over the roof line. Anybody know the ideal chimney ht for this stove. Manual says at least 15'. How do you sweep a chimney that is 12' above the chimney? Thanks

I think he meant 2' above the roofline. Look up the 10-2 rule and it will explain what he is talking about.