Ideal Steel 210 by Woodstock Stove Combustor Issues

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It is pretty ridiculous they have this cat out of stock problem every year. Maybe they should offer either steel or ceramic so they can keep up with demand? Not sure if their newer model stoves can adapt to ceramic cats since they need a different frame? I still have my old cast frame and ceramic cat just in case. I’m currently running their steel cat in my Fireview but I find it does clog with ash easier and doesn’t burn as hot as a ceramic cat.
Is there an aftermarket solution for the cat? I couldn't really find anything for the Ideal Steel 210?

from the ideal steel 210 cat order page: Dimensions: 12.50in x 7.50in x 2.75in

And yes, I forgot about the EPA testing/ government shutdown boondoggle.
 
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Is there an aftermarket solution for the cat? I couldn't really find anything for the Ideal Steel 210?

from the ideal steel 210 cat order page: Dimensions: 12.50in x 7.50in x 2.75in

And yes, I forgot about the EPA testing/ government shutdown boondoggle.
All I can find for aftermarket cats is for their Fireview, Classic and Keystone/Palladian.

If Woodstock goes under people are going to be SOL!
 
How did you measure the moisture content in the wood?

How long has it been up and drying? Is the oak and ash the same age?
I measure the moisture content with a General MMD4E Moisture meter. Some of the ash was dead standing and way to dry. Under 5% moisture and some didn't even register any moisture. I mix that in with oak that has been drying a year and is all under 15% on moisture. I cut my own firewood from my average out back. So I dont burn garbage wood and I dont burn wet wood. I find that 15% gives the best heat and burns the best in this stove. Anything under 10% burns up way too fast. I split my firewood the winter before im going to burn it so this wood im burning now was split last january.
 
They were forced by the EPA to retest all their stoves because one other manufacturer took advantage of the previous testing methods. It was a short time frame to get this done and when the Gov shut down they had to wait on the EPA cert on some of their stoves this caused delays and back orders. I think they are still waiting.

As far as the tariffs go they source all their materials from overseas and build them there in NH. Cast comes from Belgium, soapstone from Canada and not sure about their steel. Back in the day everything was sourced locally, not sure why that changed.

I agree they probably got too big for their britches when they started making steel stoves and producing their own cats. A few hiccups here and there can really hurt a small company.
Good info. I knew they sourced everything in the US, didn't know they started sourcing from other countries. This could explain some of the issues along with the EPA testing of their stoves. However, their cats being out of stock is nothing new. Been this way every year for last 3 1/2 years I've had the stove. Seems they've always had issues with their cats that they can never keep them in stock but yet they have them to sell in new stoves
 
What are you using to know when it’s up to temp? Could the thermometer be off and you just need more time before engaging the cat?
I use 2 different infrared thermometers. Both are pretty much identical with temp. Maybe a degree or 2 off sometimes but that would also be me not hitting the same exact spot.
 
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Good info. I knew they sourced everything in the US, didn't know they started sourcing from other countries. This could explain some of the issues along with the EPA testing of their stoves. However, their cats being out of stock is nothing new. Been this way every year for last 3 1/2 years I've had the stove. Seems they've always had issues with their cats that they can never keep them in stock but yet they have them to sell in new stoves
Yes I agree they need to do better with their cat supply or at least offer other options from another supplier.
 
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Yes I agree they need to do better with their cat supply or at least offer other options from another supplier.
I read on another forum that a guy from Vermont walked into the Woodstock facility and was able to buy a cat. They just got 200 in and they just need the tabs welded on to fit the different versions. More BS from them though, apparently only one guy is welding the tabs...
 
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I measure the moisture content with a General MMD4E Moisture meter. Some of the ash was dead standing and way to dry. Under 5% moisture and some didn't even register any moisture. I mix that in with oak that has been drying a year and is all under 15% on moisture. I cut my own firewood from my average out back. So I dont burn garbage wood and I dont burn wet wood. I find that 15% gives the best heat and burns the best in this stove. Anything under 10% burns up way too fast. I split my firewood the winter before im going to burn it so this wood im burning now was split last january.
Ok, I think we may have found a partial answer.

Air drying will not give you that low of a moisture content. You’d have to kiln dry it. Typical air drying will get you to around 15% if left long enough. You can’t get below equilibrium and we don’t live in a desert so our equilibrium isn’t 0 or even 5%

Ash can be ready to burn quickly, oak usually takes years to dry enough to burn well. Different mixes of wood will be behaving differently as some of your loads may be mostly ash, some may be mostly oak. Your cat will not like the wet oak as much as the dryer ash.

To get the moisture content, grab a split and bring it inside for at least a day. The center has to reach room temp. Split it and in the middle of the fresh face, press the pins in as far as you can with the grain.
 
I read on another forum that a guy from Vermont walked into the Woodstock facility and was able to buy a cat. They just got 200 in and they just need the tabs welded on to fit the different versions. More BS from them though, apparently only one guy is welding the tabs...
Yes I saw that too. Those 200 cats were for the Absolute Steel. Sounds like they need to hire some welders.
 
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Yes I saw that too. Those 200 cats were for the Absolute Steel. Sounds like they need to hire some welders.
exactly. What ever happened to "git'er done"?
 
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After a burn, to reload I open the cat, rake the coals to the front, open air damper to fully open, once coals get hot, I spread them out evenly, load Stove with oak and ash all below 15% on moisture meter. (I find that burns best in my stove).

Once pipe gets up to 250-275, front of stove by probe temp is 500-525, top of stove by pipe fitting us 450 ish (on infrared thermometer), i lower the air control down to 1/4 open, close the combustor, and the fire slowly dies out. Pipe temp drops to around 150, top of stove down to around 280-300 and front of stove by probe down to 350-300. I then have to re ignite the fire by repeating the process or just leave the combustor closed and open the air to half way or 3/4s until stove comes back up to temp
I'm going to second what NunYaBusiness said - you are most likely being too aggressive in turning down the air after engaging the cat AND your wood is probably a little wetter than your moisture meter indicates. CAT stoves are more finicky than tube stoves on startups with slightly not well-dried wood, but will burn it fine once they have a chance to drive off that extra moisture (my own experience).

Personally, I don't think the inexpensive moisture meters are all that accurate and I'd prefer using an ohmmeter and a lookup table because it can vary a lot by wood species. I also think the inexpensive moisture meters are calibrated for softwoods commonly used for framing lumber and given erroneous readings for hardwood (it is also tougher to get their prongs deep enough into hardwoods to get an accurate reading). This is a great thread to read and well worth your time: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-a-multimeter-to-measure-wood-moisture-level.40033/

I know you are focusing on the stove being bad, or the catalytic combustor being bad, but the reality is that these are the two least likely things going wrong. Most likely is that your wood is not as dry as you think and maybe second most likely (but not all that likely) is some type of blockage in your chimney. 95% probability is that your wood is sub-optimal and has more moisture than you think. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is the simple lived reality for most of us hearth.com members here when a new member starts visiting the site and describing how their stove isn't working very well (I myself was a new member who did this very thing).

So my question is, does anyone else have this issue of the combustor not igniting the first time and you have to reignite the stove a 2nd time and then the combustor works.
Yes. This is my third year burning with my Woodstock cat stove but the first year burning with wood that has been cut, split, stacked, and covered for three years. This year's wood has bark falling off and is a mix of sugar maple, black walnut, and I have a little bit of hickory. The difference in how the stove performs with this year's wood is dramatic compared to last year or the first year (with more marginal wood). In fact, what you are describing sounds like my first two years of burning with a CAT stove.

Even this year, sometimes I shut down a little too early and the CAT stalls and I have to open the door and get is some air and get some flames going and then shut the door and close the bypass to engage the CAT and start the process again. Sometimes it's three starts. Sometimes there is just a piece of wood that starts hissing as soon as it is in the stove and I know this is going to be a more difficult startup.
What gets me is works totally fine after I ignite the cobustor the 2nd time but not the first time. Keeping the air on the same setting the first time, the stove dies. Ignite the combustor n keep the air on the same setting, 1/4 open the 2nd time, the stove gets way too hot and I have to lower down the air control under 1/4.
I wouldn't try to follow all of Woodstock's recommendations too religiously about temperatures and times and what not when starting a new fire - you to have to figure out what works for your setup and this year's wood supply. Also (maybe I'm reading too much between the lines) but it sounds like you might be in a rush in the morning trying to get the stove to settle in before you dash off to work - that can be frustrating with marginal wood, for sure.

OK, assuming that you are willing to consider that your wood might be a little less than well-dried for burning in a CAT stove, try reloading with smaller splits (1" or so across) on the bottom or some small softer wood splits (i.e. not ash or oak) on the bottom. Then, keep the loading door open for a few minutes (closely monitor this so you don't get an aggressive fire in the firebox), then close the loading door but don't shut the bypass (or engage the CAT). Do flames die out? If so, wood is wet and you may have to repeat the process. If flames continue, let it go for 5 minutes (set a timer) and then engage the CAT but keep it at full air. Do flames die out? If so, wood is wet and you may have to start the process again with the open loading door (open bypass/disengage CAT first). Yeah, it might take a few iterations with wet wood. (I know you are likely going to tell me your wood is not wet, but in three years you'll be telling us how much better your stove burns with better dried wood - trust me).

Then, once the CAT is combusting, close the air in 25% increments (or faster if it is really taking off and there are too many active flames in the firebox). Give it about 5 minutes between adjustments. I start with my air fully open, and when the cat is glowing a bit, I'll shut it to 3 or 2.5 (depending) and then a few minutes later to 2 (or 1) and then all the way down to 0 on the coldest days (I have good draft from a tall chimney). I never go from engaging the CAT to setting air to 1 (25% open) at the same time.

Also, sometimes the CAT starts to work and it just takes time to "glow". I've learned to be patient and just let it go at its pace. Of course, I work from home and I'm not trying to dash off to work, so I don't need to rush the burn cycle. Oak, for sure, is going to take longer to get going compared to dried ash or maple or softer hardwoods.
First time, I load the stove, bring the stove and pipe up to recommended temp, lower air to 1/4 open position n drop the cat. The stove slowly dies off within an hour. I then open the cat, open the air to full open, bring the stove back up to temp, lower the air to 1/4 open, lower cat and stove totally works fine. Then eventually 1/4 open on the air become too much and I have to lower the air setting to the 3rd or 4th notch and that keeps the stove running great all day or all night.
Yeah - you repeated this a bunch. You are going to have to experiment a bit with your setup and your wood supply. Try not to be too locked into a process during startup. If the stove works great once it's running, then there is nothing wrong with the cat and most likely your wood has more moisture in it than you think. I've learned over the years that I don't need a moisture meter anymore - if the bark has fallen off the splits, then the wood is ready to go, and that takes three years after cutting, splitting, and stacking (covered).
 
I'm going to second what NunYaBusiness said - you are most likely being too aggressive in turning down the air after engaging the cat AND your wood is probably a little wetter than your moisture meter indicates. CAT stoves are more finicky than tube stoves on startups with slightly not well-dried wood, but will burn it fine once they have a chance to drive off that extra moisture (my own experience).

Personally, I don't think the inexpensive moisture meters are all that accurate and I'd prefer using an ohmmeter and a lookup table because it can vary a lot by wood species. I also think the inexpensive moisture meters are calibrated for softwoods commonly used for framing lumber and given erroneous readings for hardwood (it is also tougher to get their prongs deep enough into hardwoods to get an accurate reading). This is a great thread to read and well worth your time: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-a-multimeter-to-measure-wood-moisture-level.40033/

I know you are focusing on the stove being bad, or the catalytic combustor being bad, but the reality is that these are the two least likely things going wrong. Most likely is that your wood is not as dry as you think and maybe second most likely (but not all that likely) is some type of blockage in your chimney. 95% probability is that your wood is sub-optimal and has more moisture than you think. I know you don't want to hear that, but that is the simple lived reality for most of us hearth.com members here when a new member starts visiting the site and describing how their stove isn't working very well (I myself was a new member who did this very thing).


Yes. This is my third year burning with my Woodstock cat stove but the first year burning with wood that has been cut, split, stacked, and covered for three years. This year's wood has bark falling off and is a mix of sugar maple, black walnut, and I have a little bit of hickory. The difference in how the stove performs with this year's wood is dramatic compared to last year or the first year (with more marginal wood). In fact, what you are describing sounds like my first two years of burning with a CAT stove.

Even this year, sometimes I shut down a little too early and the CAT stalls and I have to open the door and get is some air and get some flames going and then shut the door and close the bypass to engage the CAT and start the process again. Sometimes it's three starts. Sometimes there is just a piece of wood that starts hissing as soon as it is in the stove and I know this is going to be a more difficult startup.

I wouldn't try to follow all of Woodstock's recommendations too religiously about temperatures and times and what not when starting a new fire - you to have to figure out what works for your setup and this year's wood supply. Also (maybe I'm reading too much between the lines) but it sounds like you might be in a rush in the morning trying to get the stove to settle in before you dash off to work - that can be frustrating with marginal wood, for sure.

OK, assuming that you are willing to consider that your wood might be a little less than well-dried for burning in a CAT stove, try reloading with smaller splits (1" or so across) on the bottom or some small softer wood splits (i.e. not ash or oak) on the bottom. Then, keep the loading door open for a few minutes (closely monitor this so you don't get an aggressive fire in the firebox), then close the loading door but don't shut the bypass (or engage the CAT). Do flames die out? If so, wood is wet and you may have to repeat the process. If flames continue, let it go for 5 minutes (set a timer) and then engage the CAT but keep it at full air. Do flames die out? If so, wood is wet and you may have to start the process again with the open loading door (open bypass/disengage CAT first). Yeah, it might take a few iterations with wet wood. (I know you are likely going to tell me your wood is not wet, but in three years you'll be telling us how much better your stove burns with better dried wood - trust me).

Then, once the CAT is combusting, close the air in 25% increments (or faster if it is really taking off and there are too many active flames in the firebox). Give it about 5 minutes between adjustments. I start with my air fully open, and when the cat is glowing a bit, I'll shut it to 3 or 2.5 (depending) and then a few minutes later to 2 (or 1) and then all the way down to 0 on the coldest days (I have good draft from a tall chimney). I never go from engaging the CAT to setting air to 1 (25% open) at the same time.

Also, sometimes the CAT starts to work and it just takes time to "glow". I've learned to be patient and just let it go at its pace. Of course, I work from home and I'm not trying to dash off to work, so I don't need to rush the burn cycle. Oak, for sure, is going to take longer to get going compared to dried ash or maple or softer hardwoods.

Yeah - you repeated this a bunch. You are going to have to experiment a bit with your setup and your wood supply. Try not to be too locked into a process during startup. If the stove works great once it's running, then there is nothing wrong with the cat and most likely your wood has more moisture in it than you think. I've learned over the years that I don't need a moisture meter anymore - if the bark has fallen off the splits, then the wood is ready to go, and that takes three years after cutting, splitting, and stacking (covered).
a primer for new users!
 
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