Ideal Steel Hybrid owners/testers - info appreciated

[DougA]

I'll be ordering a new stove in the next few weeks to replace a 30 yr. old VC and after nearly a year of going through all the options, the Ideal Steel keeps coming out in front. At first I was not crazy about the design but honestly, it has grown on me and suits our modern home design very well. I have spoken to Woodstock a number of times and always been happy with their willingness to answer all questions fully and politely. The IS is just enough stove to heat what I need and certainly much more than I currently have. For cold spells, it will be set at max 24/7.

After many, many hours of searching numerous forums, I can't find anyone with anything bad to say or complaints about the Ideal Steel other than it's looks. Quite frankly, those criticisms have soured me on forums but not on the stove.

My question is this: it's a new design/product and it bothers me that I can't find any complaints. Does anyone have anything to complain or comment on regarding performance? usability? trouble meeting heating expectations? weld issues? anything other than looks? I know some have been in use long enough that they should have enough time for evaluation, so I'd like to hear any negatives so I can be better informed.

In case some of you want to sway me to other stoves, don't bother. Quite frankly, I'm upset that so many of my local dealers are either stuck up, stuck in the mud or badly ill-informed. The idea of buying directly from the mfg. is a bonus. I dislike the idea of paying a local dealer a thousand bucks profit to bring in a stove and load it on my truck the same day. I'd love to have a Blaze King but the final cost is more than DOUBLE the Ideal Steel (I've done the math with multiple dealers). I'd love a masonry heater even more but the extreme cost and risk of insurance non-compliance for the build-it-yourselfer has finally driven me away.

 

[fire_man]

I can't comment on the IS, but I can comment on the company Woodstock after dealing with them for the past 7+ years. I cannot imagine a better company to buy a product from. Woodstock places the customer first, builds a reliable product which they take pride in, and are industry leaders.
They are courteous,responsive and know their business.

You are not just buying a stove, you are forming a relationship with a great company.

 

[JA600L]

I have never tried the Ideal Steel but I have heard many good things about it. The only complaint I have heard is the looks. I agree though! I like how it looks. I think Woodstock built this stove just for people like us who want it all for much less than a Blaze King.

 

[begreen]

It's just coming out of beta testing. Not much real world feedback on it in locations outside of NE. Look up flamested's posts on the beta.

 

[Grisu]

It's just coming out of beta testing. Not much real world feedback on it in locations outside of NE. Look up flamested's posts on the beta.

It looks like the beta testers had some suggestions for improvements that Woodstock implemented in the final product. Here are some of them: http://blog.woodstove.com/2014/03/ideal-steel-improvements.html

 

[Huntindog1]

One feature it has is it injects some extra air into the top of the stove around the Cat to make the cat more efficient. And since stoves are basically driven from the draw of the flue draft, when air is let in up at the top around the cat this cuts down on the air coming in to the main wood load thus you get a slower burn while increasing the heat your getting out of the stove from the better functioning of the cat with extra air.

 

[DougA]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[smokedragon]

Mine will be coming end of August. I wrestled with the decision just like you (I was completely against a cat stove). If you wait another 4 - 5 months, I will give you a full report

We had a custom design done during the promo period, and I think we will be very happy with how it fits our family room in terms of looks. Of course, I had a plain jane black steel stove before the IS, so I don't think that is a problem.

I am working on getting the hearth done for that thing this weekend, got the old stove out of the fireplace (insert) this past weekend. Man did I forget how heavy that thing was.......

I have scoured the internet and will tell you that not only have I found zero complaints from the beta testers, but that woodstock has made some great improvements because of their feedback. Additionally, I have yet to find a soul who would speak poorly of them. After a few phone calls and emails, I completely see why. If everyone I dealt with worked like woodstock, I would have lower blood pressure.

Chris

 

[unhdsm]

I think many (and maybe most) beta testers ended up putting a down payment on the stove if that means anything. WS asked us to be very upfront about anything we didn't like and most of those issues were fixed since then. I know several testers also ran the stoves hard (myself included) to find any weak points. If I am being picky, I'm not thrilled about the 19 inch side clearance but I really don't see a way around that-- I've said many times that there is a large amount of accelerated heat coming from those side vents. At least the 19 inches will allow a nice glove warming rack.
The sloping ceiling makes it hard to load a final row N/S--- now I make the top row E/W when I want to run N/S. I can't think of anything else really.

Short of that it starts easier, gets hotter, stays more consistent, and lasts longer, ect, ect, ect...

 

[DougA]

Thanks, I missed the 19" on sides but my current one is 24" so not a big concern.

The only worry I still have is that going to their store is a huge PITA for me and I am so afraid to order without seeing it first. Maybe have to take a few days holiday. Yes, I know there is a 100% buy back warranty but I'm just not that kind of guy. I like to touch, feel and kick the tires before I open the wallet.

BTW, do they make a custom design from my artwork at the same price as the stock designs? I forgot to ask.

 

[JA600L]

I just got done designing my own artwork and there was no extra charge. I did buy it at the promotional price though. If you insist on going to see it then make the trip, but most of us with one on order are trusting Woodstock's reputation and the word of the Beta testers.

 

[kennyp2339]

Oh man, I wish I never read this post, I wish I never clicked on the link to the ideal stove update page, I wish I never went to there main web page and read all the reviews, I wish I didn't go on you tube and watch a couple videos of this stove in action.. I had my heart set on the Blaze King, but now it feels like I'm starting over the whole process. Rats - Have a good summer

 

[JA600L]

I don't know much about Blaze King, but my understanding is that they do not use secondary air tubes. This may give the Blaze King a longer slow burn. I'm guessing that the Ideal Steel would have a higher efficiency rating.

Open them both up 25% and my guess is they would have the same burn times.

 

[smokedragon]

I don't know much about Blaze King, but my understanding is that they do not use secondary air tubes. This may give the Blaze King a longer slow burn. I'm guessing that the Ideal Steel would have a higher efficiency rating.

Open them both up 25% and my guess is they would have the same burn times.

You are correct, BK is cat only.

Both stove companies put out VERY efficient stoves.

I think that the Ideal Steel will put out more peak heat (i.e. if you run both stoves hard) than the blaze kings. But turn them both back to 25% and they will both heat very well. I do think the BK's have longer burn times, but the reported times I am hearing from IS beta testers is plenty long enough for me.

 

[NVHunter]

I've been interested in the Ideal Steel also. I've received a copy of the stoves manual from Woodstock earlier today. I started reading it and it says NO alcove installs. I was going to call them but they're closed now so I'm looking for advise from people who already have the stove or are experienced in wood stove installs.

The manual says it needs an area 8'x8'x8' for install or a minimum of 521 cubic feet.

My question is, would you guys consider my area for install an alcove?

My opening is 96" wide or 8 feet. Height is 109" or 9 feet, (8 feet from hearth top to ceiling)

The wall is recessed 24" in but opens into a 22'x20' vaulted ceiling room.

So technically the opening in my mind meets the 8'x8'x8' opening. 8' wide, 9' tall and 2' in plus all the room out (20 feet out).

What do you guys think? Am I just wishing I can install a Woodstock too much... and this IS an alcove? Or I am going to be okay to put it in there...?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[DougA]

As I read your post, this is not an alcove to me, but a drawing would sure help.

To get back to my original post, I finally found a very good PE dealer today and spent a short time with him discussing the merits of non-cat on the PE Summit. He's the first dealer I have met with in person who was not 'full of it' IMHO. The Summit for me at least, comes in at $900. cheaper than the Ideal Steel BUT I am still pouring over the stats to compare. He did ask a good question that I emailed to Woodstock and that is "is the Ideal Steel certified in Canada?". You'd think the US certification would be accepted but since it has to pass by a WETT inspector, it makes the question critical for me in Canada.

Last stat that I am still wrestling with (for tonight): EPA BTU rating on Ideal Steel is stated as 60,500 and PE states 38,500 but Chimney Sweep website says the Summit is 48,000 to 99,000 max. Also, the PE web site has been down twice in the last few days - weird. I know BTU ratings are tossed around like sh*t on a stick but I think the IS is going to be higher when comparing identical loads of wood.

Anyway, tomorrow, going to a Blaze King dealer who has been closed the last few weeks.

Still thinking a drive to NH is going to be necessary.

Oops, forgot to mention, Summit is 3.9 grams/hr vs 1.04 on the IS.

 

[NVHunter]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread...

Here's a drawing. The hearth is going to be shorter than in the drawing. Ignore the stove pipe exit too. This was a quick crud drawing.

Thanks for any help an sorry again....

 

[DougA]

No problem with the post at all. As far as I can see (free advice from non-expert) you should have no problem as long as the clearances (back/side/top/hearth) are at spec or better. You may want to have a fan in the main room to make sure that hot air is not 'stuck' in the alcove and get moved around enough. Not for safety, just to make sure you are making use of the heat.

There are many advantages to Woodstock not having a dealer network but clearly some disadvantages - such as not having someone to talk to face to face.

 

[BrotherBart]

PE is the source of the 99K cord wood output number for the Summit. The EPA default is a leftover from 1988 that stove makers just accept rather than pay the large bucks for actual output testing. Of course that 99,000 is with somebody standing there stoking the stove like a steam locomotive and hoping it doesn't split down the middle.

 

[Grisu]

As I read your post, this is not an alcove to me, but a drawing would sure help.

To get back to my original post, I finally found a very good PE dealer today and spent a short time with him discussing the merits of non-cat on the PE Summit. He's the first dealer I have met with in person who was not 'full of it' IMHO. The Summit for me at least, comes in at $900. cheaper than the Ideal Steel BUT I am still pouring over the stats to compare. He did ask a good question that I emailed to Woodstock and that is "is the Ideal Steel certified in Canada?". You'd think the US certification would be accepted but since it has to pass by a WETT inspector, it makes the question critical for me in Canada.

Last stat that I am still wrestling with (for tonight): EPA BTU rating on Ideal Steel is stated as 60,500 and PE states 38,500 but Chimney Sweep website says the Summit is 48,000 to 99,000 max. Also, the PE web site has been down twice in the last few days - weird. I know BTU ratings are tossed around like sh*t on a stick but I think the IS is going to be higher when comparing identical loads of wood.

Anyway, tomorrow, going to a Blaze King dealer who has been closed the last few weeks.

Still thinking a drive to NH is going to be necessary.

Oops, forgot to mention, Summit is 3.9 grams/hr vs 1.04 on the IS.

The chimneysweep has more realistic sustained BTU numbers with the math at the bottom of the site. (broken link removed)
Essentially amount of wood loaded times efficiency divided by burn time gives you the heat output per hour. Since both stoves have a similar size firebox and the efficiency should not be that far apart, I doubt you will note much difference in their heating capabilities when run on high. Where the Ideal Steel will have an advantage is at low burn rates due to the catalyst.

 

[DougA]

The chimneysweep has more realistic sustained BTU numbers with the math at the bottom of the site. (broken link removed)
Essentially amount of wood loaded times efficiency divided by burn time gives you the heat output per hour. Since both stoves have a similar size firebox and the efficiency should not be that far apart, I doubt you will note much difference in their heating capabilities when run on high. Where the Ideal Steel will have an advantage is at low burn rates due to the catalyst.

Thanks. I had not ever made it to the bottom of the page and the explanation helped me to believe the numbers on chimneysweep. Yes, their efficiency is very similar and the only real difference is the cat.

I did receive a reply from Woodstock this morning on the Cdn safety rating and it is UL approved but not ULC (Canada) due to the high cost and perhaps newness. I have to do some work on finding out how that will affect WETT certification but my thought is that it should be fine. I have to be certain prior to ordering though.

Thought people might like to read this part of Mike's reply, "We haven't shipped any Ideal Steel stoves as yet because we just started production last week on th very first units. Any new orders placed today we are shipping at the end of October." Two weeks ago, delivery was quoted as late Sept., so either they are getting a lot of orders or production is going slower than expected (or both). Good thing my old stove will still be available to use.

 

[DougA]

FINALLY - after hours of phone calls I got this answer. It is illegal to operate a stove in Canada that is not either ULC or CSA certified. That's what the local building inspector told me. WETT gave me a complete run-around on the phone. FWIW, an inspector might not notice the difference between a UL and a ULC plate and approve it but if you have a fire, my guess is that the insurance is invalid. I checked further and you 'might' get approval for a non-listed stove BUT the installation has to be made to non-listed stove regulations, which are enormous setbacks.

So this is the end of the story, no Woodstock stove is ULC certified and I completely understand that the cost/benefit is just not realistic for them.

The bad news is that I don't buy a Woodstock, the good news is that I saved myself from the 20 hr. drive there & back to look at them. Wish things were different.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the update Doug. Good to know.

 

[RESEARCH MAKER]

Shame both myself and the wife living in BC Canada really liked this stove design, just don't like the black lumps, maybe they will submit it to UL for testing in the near future.
I am WETT qualified and was several years ago technical manager at Blaze King great stoves but just love the look of the Ideal Steel Hybrid and the add on parts.

 

[smokedragon]

We are going to fire our ideal steel for the first time this week. Look for info to be coming soon.