In need of advice ...

[drewmo]

I 'm in serious need of serious advice on how to proceed with replacing the central heat system in our 1930s, 3,000 sq', Colonial home we recently purchased. The house is incredibly well built and reasonably insulated, windows aside. However, heating this girl is going to be a challenge for a variety of reasons. A little background:

1. The original structure is heated by forced hot air, currently supplied by a Powrmatic combo wood/oil furnace located in the basement. It's old and tired.
2. A first-floor addition was added to the house about 20 years ago. At the same time, the attic was converted into a master suite. Both the addition and master suite are heated by hot water baseboard. A separate oil-fed boiler is responsible for these zones. This boiler is way past it's prime.
3. An Englander pellet stove resides in the first floor addition and can easily heat the living/dining room and kitchen. This, too, is not in the best shape.
4. Domestic hot water is supplied by an electric tank installed just prior to us purchasing the home. I really want a tankless hot-water unit, but we don't have NG or propane, so cost of installation is prohibitive at the moment.

I have included the 1st and 2nd floor plans indicating location of baseboard, registers and the pellet stove. The master suite is on the 3rd floor and is essentially an open room, again heated by baseboard.

With our first winter ahead of us, we're prepared to rely on the pellet stove and wood portion of the furnace for a majority of our warmth. I'd like to completely stay away from the oil boiler, not only because of cost, but because it's in such tough shape. We might need to rely on a space heater for the master bedroom, but I think enough hot air will rise that we should be OK.

Next year, I would like to replace the systems in place now, but don't know what is the best option given our budget and desire to distance ourselves from oil. Although we're in no hurry to sell this place, I want to consider "ease of use" into the equation. I love mucking about with wood stoves and the like, but the next owner might not.

Some questions:
- Is there a pellet or wood furnace that can provide forced hot air while accommodating the hot water baseboard at the same time?
- One professional opinion we received was to plumb baseboard hot water where the forced hot air currently exists and move exclusively to a boiler operation. It would be a shame to go that direction as the house has definite character with the registers. But maybe if it were not oil-based and it supplied DHW, would it make economical sense?
- In the attached floor plan, there is a fireplace in the formal dining room. Would it be possible to install a wood or pellet stove, and modify the existing ducts to distribute the heat? Given the location of the ducts and the stairs, it looks as if there will be good convection.

If you've read this far, thank you. I'm sure I've omitted about 90 percent of the story, but hopefully I've included enough to get a discussion going. Really looking forward to hearing comments, and I'm here to answer any questions and will gladly upload photos or drawing if asked.

 

[BoilerMan]

First off..... Congradulations on your "new" house! Looks like a great floor plan.

Some options I can think of:
1. Convert to 100% forced hot water (as you stated) and loose the registers
2. Convert to a wood boiler (I'm partial) and use a fan coil for the old forced air portion of the house and retain the ductwork, can buy HE oil boiler for future or backup. Buderus, Pensotti etc.....
3. Retain the existing oil boiler for backup and still do option 2

It depends on how much you like the registers, there are quite a few vintage cast iron rediators on craigslist in out state right now, I'd go with that option and do option 1.

All of which use an indirect in the winter, and use the existing electric in the summer unless you incorporate storage with your wood.

There are many options, and it depends on if you like burning wood, or you could go the pellet boiler option, Harmon pellet PB105 is a nice unit which I've installed before. If you like wood...... go with a good gassifier and pressureized storade and don't look back, you'll be happy you did. You can always take it with you if you move, and put in a fossil fuel unit. I'll let others chime in,

BTW that is ALOT of blackness on that ductwork!

TS

 

[hobbyheater]

. Really looking forward to hearing comments, ][/quote]

A pellet boiler or a wood gasification boiler could do the job. One zone for a water to air heat exchanger in the forced air side and a second zone for the hot water side.

 

[woodsmaster]

I'll also vote for a gasser boiler. It is a large investment, but if you run the numbers and can get the money It's a no brainer especially if you can do the install and get free or cheap wood. You actually would still be way ahead even if you buy your wood. Use your existing boiler for back up and replace it down the road when you need to.

 

[Gasifier]

Drewmo. I would also choose a wood gassification boiler if I were in your shoes. I see you said you love "mucking about" with wood stoves and the like. That is great, and important, if you are going to go with wood. It is a lot of work. I firmly believe that you have to enjoy the work that comes with heating with wood. I love it. It is just a small part of the many things that I do to try to stay healthy. Physically and mentally. I think it helps in both. I use to heat with a wood stove and my oil boiler provided what he wood stove could not. I then switched over to a wood gassification boiler and it heats the entire house, garage to about 45-50 , and our domestic hot water through and in-direct hot water heater. Love it. Oh. Congratulations on the new house and good luck on your decisions. If you decide to go with wood, it is a good idea to get started now on your supply. A little at a time makes it easier than trying to do it all at once. The gassers like dry wood. Seasoned longer than a year is best. Longer than two if it is oak, from what the others on the forums have said. If you do not have the time to devote to the work of wood, the pellet boiler would be easier, cleaner, and take less time. I came very close to a pellet boiler. But wood is cheaper, especially if you have access to some, can spend some time scrounging, etc. Buying it all cut, split, and delivered is great if you have a little extra money. I do this from time to time. You get all the benefits of cord wood, without all the extra stuff (tools, time, fuel, etc. etc.) you have to have and do with cutting your own. Keep asking questions. Great bunch of guys on here that will help you out. Later.

 

[drewmo]

Thanks for the replies. I've set up an appointment on Monday for the local stove shop to give their opinion, hopefully get a few prices. The more I think about it, having a pellet boiler with heat exchange for the forced air would be convenient and economical way to go. To satisfy my need to burn wood, I'd swap out the pellet stove in the addition with a small wood stove.

I have 4 cords ready to go for the existing wood furnace. In the end, we might not be able to have anything done in time for this winter.

 

[Mark Holden]

Heat the whole house with a single, water based system.
Whatever setup you decide on, just make sure all the heating loops and dhw lines come to one area where the system lives. then you or any future owner can easily modify, upgrade or replace the system.
Who knows, maybe everyone will be changing to the new home fusion reactors a few decades from now... or fuel cells with a lot of heat as a byproduct... or...

 

[Clarkbug]

Thanks for the replies. I've set up an appointment on Monday for the local stove shop to give their opinion, hopefully get a few prices. The more I think about it, having a pellet boiler with heat exchange for the forced air would be convenient and economical way to go. To satisfy my need to burn wood, I'd swap out the pellet stove in the addition with a small wood stove.

I have 4 cords ready to go for the existing wood furnace. In the end, we might not be able to have anything done in time for this winter.

I think this sounds like a pretty good plan for you. There are a number of vendors here on the forum that sell pellet boilers (not sure of the size they go up to), and could help you come up with a design. I would advise investing in bulk pellet storage/delivery to help keep your annual costs down, but also to provide the ability to leave your system alone in the wintertime. If you dont go that route, and just have to dump bags into a hopper, I would suggest putting in an oil back up boiler to feed into your loop. Your insurance company may want that also, depending on their stance on using pellets as the primary heat source.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'd go with a hot water boiler (gasifier or pellet boiler) and use a water-to-air heat exchanger to pump hot air into your existing system, plus run your domestic hot water off a water-to-water heat exchanger on the boiler. Although hydronic heat is arguably better than hot air, hot air is what you're set up for, and it obviously works, and you like the way it looks. Maximum bang for the buck, minimum disruption to the existing physical plant, IMO. Keep the existing heating unit as your backup. If you have cold spots in your house, plumb them up with hydronics, i.e., cast iron radiators, hot water baseboard or in-floor radiant.