Insert in the basement. What factors determine efficiency?

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KnightsOfTheRound

New Member
Oct 24, 2013
6
Knoxville, TN
So this past April, my wife and I moved into our first house. It's a fully-remodeled split level with a full, finished basement. The entire house is just under 2000 sq feet. The basement is accessible by a fairly wide stairwell just off the living room.

We currently cool and heat using central air throughout the house (basement as well). We generally keep the basement vents shut in the summer, as it stays relatively cool down there as it is. And if we're running heat when it's cold, the basement is generally the first thing to get toasty.

As far as efficiency goes, I think our house is pretty decent. We've yet to pay more than $100 a month on cooling the place. The same goes for heating it, in the first few months of our moving in, although that was after the worst of winter had already passed.

Given that we have a fireplace, we thought it would be nice to utilize it in the winter.

We recently had our chimney inspected and it was given a squeaky-clean bill of health. We had recently read that installing a wood-burning stove/insert heated much more efficiently than just using the fireplace.

We went to our local shop who suggested the Buck Model 80, given the dimensions of our fireplace.

I've read posts from others who say that burning a wood stove in their basement does wonders for heating the rest of their house (or at least the most 'lived-in' parts of the house), and I've read other posts where doing so essentially turns their basement into a sweat lodge, and doesn't do much for the rest of the house.

And I'm curious: What factors determine whether or not purchasing a fireplace insert would be a good idea?

I'd hate to spend all that money to have one installed, only for it to make the basement unbearably hot, and have no effect on the rest of the home.

I could post photos of our layout if that would help.
 
I'm heating my house from a finished basement. It's a 1200 sf walkout and upstairs is 1870 sf, I'm using a Princess insert and its does 75% of the heating. I need the furnace on the colder days. I went from burning 1000 gallons of oil down to 1 tank a year and that's for hot water too. The only tricky part is getting the heat moving where you want, it takes a little experimenting.
 
What is the winter climate like in Knoxville? What do you have for a heat source now and how much do you pay? Is the basement below grade?
 
The coldest portions of winter generally hover between the low 40s on its warmer days, and the low 20s to teens on the colder days. We currently utilize electric central heat and air, and we seldom pay more than $100 a month for both AC/Heat and water.

If I'm understanding the definition, our basement is not entirely below grade. That is, there are windows you can see out of. I'd say it's about 50% below grade.
 
Inserts use blowers to push the air into the room, because they are recessed into the fireplace. The ones that are designed to stick into the room will give you the best convection heat (without the blower running) because the metal is exposed to the room. As said, the trick will be to get the air moving with small fans moving the air up the stairway. That bk princess mentioned above gets great reviews and awesome burn times.
 
You will need to find out how well the warm air rises from the basement to the rest of the house. Since you mention that during heating season the basement gets toasty you may have a problem with heat distribution. Have you thought about shutting the vents upstairs, turn on the heat and see if the heat in the basement is able to get the upstairs warm?

The Buck 80 is a nice catalytic stove but did the dealer tell you about the pros and cons of buying a catalytic stove versus a non-cat? It is not that I think a cat stove may be a bad option for you but I believe in giving people the tools to make informed decisions.

P.S. Don't forget you will need dry wood whatever stove you may get. Do you have wood available that has been split and stacked for a minimum of a year?
 
I'm no electrician, but I wonder if running fans to direct the air would cost as much as just running the thermostat. That's where I find myself most conflicted on such a purchase/investment.

He did not explain the difference between catalytic and non-catalytic beyond catalytic burning/filtering off less-than-savory byproducts that are otherwise released out of the chimney and into the air.

PLENTY of split, seasoned wood wherever you look in my neck of the woods.
 
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My wood stove is inan unfinished basement. It is a "convection" type stove as opposed to a radiant meaning it heats air directly above it rather than "all around" This was the perfect type of stove to put a hood on it as the air naturally convects upward into the duct dumping out to the above living room. No fans are needed as I have an open floor plan. Small fans use a pittance of kwh's. 4 of these fans use way less than running a desk top computer.
 
The coldest portions of winter generally hover between the low 40s on its warmer days, and the low 20s to teens on the colder days. We currently utilize electric central heat and air, and we seldom pay more than $100 a month for both AC/Heat and water.

If I'm understanding the definition, our basement is not entirely below grade. That is, there are windows you can see out of. I'd say it's about 50% below grade.
Your situation sounds very much like ours, climate wise and heating bill wise. For us, the decision to pay $3400 for a stove (including install) was not a financial one. There's no way we will recoup the costs with lower electric bills. Many people on this forum pay many hundreds a month for oil and such.

But we enjoy having the stove for ambiance and it does heat the house nicely. A bonus is that we have the house at much warmer temps than we would ever put a thermostat. I also happen to enjoy putting up the wood.

Basement installations can be tough. Some heat will be lost through an uninsulated concrete wall to warm the worms. But a daylight basement in a split level house like yours could be successful. An important factor would be whether the space is finished and you spend enough time there to enjoy the stove.
 
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The main things that will determine the heating efficiency of the stove in relation to the house will be the quality of insulation and sealing in the house and basement and the location of the stove and wide staircase. These factors will determine how much heat stays in the house and how well it will convect through the home. If the fireplace and staircase are relatively central in the floorplan and the wide staircase is always open to the basement, then you stand a decent chance of getting a good, natural convective flow. If the fireplace is located at one end and the staircase at the other you will need to assist the flow in order to avoid an overheated basement that makes upstairs temps just right.

Pictures are always welcome as well as a floorplan sketch so that we can see what you are seeing. And welcome to hearth.com!
 
Here's another question for you seasoned stove vets:

We're going through a local mom-and-pop to get our Buck model 80 (tentatively), and they've referred us to a chimney company to take care of the liner for us. I was a little shocked that the chimney company quoted us significantly more than the price of the stove itself, just for the purchase and installation of the liner.

Over $3,000 for a liner installation. That's well above the price of the stove itself. Does that seem normal? I guess, based on the guy's description, I can't really see what was all that different about the liner they would have installed, versus the liner I could purchase and install myself. Unless of course I'm simply paying (or at the case is, NOT paying) a premium for someone else taking the risk of breaking their necks up on a roof.

In any case, there is additional cause for concern, and that's why I'm coming back to you guys: I noticed that our damper is rectangular, and not circular. How does one go about attaching a liner/stovepipe/etc to a rectangular damper? Buck 80, per the literature, calls for an 8" flue.
 
First, I wouldn't pay more than $1,200 for an 8" liner installed if it ran from my house to the moon. Insulated, which he ain't doing I bet, or not. As to the damper frame, you cut out a section of it to allow the liner to fit through it.
 
If you have an old Buck the hole in the top of the stove is rectangular. The new Bucks have an eight inch round flue collar in the top of them. ??
 
I agree with Brother Bart, that sounds like highway robbery unless there some other repair work we're not aware of. In any case I would get more quotes, $1,200 is reasonable, of course if you do it yourself it's even cheaper.
 
Just a thought, but coming from one who heats from the basement up- if I coulda convinced the Committe to place a stove upstairs and simply ran a straight stack through the roof, I would have done it.
Moving heat from one floor to another can be done (I'm doing it), but it sure ain't the most efficient way.
I understand it's a split level and you live in both levels, but I would only say that if you're primarily trying to heat the upper level, then at least consider a centrally-located stove upstairs. You may rule it out, but consider it...
 
How about this: My damper is rectangular. I see that they offer liners and connectors that are rectangular. Do they also sell adapters that would connect it to the stove? Can the connection from the stove be rectangular as well or would I need some sort of adaptor? (this was something the people trying to sell me on the liner said would be a 'custom job').
 
$3K for a liner is crazy. Call around and get some different quotes. It's not for everybody, but I would buy the parts and install that myself since I bet the parts are well under $1500. How long is the chimney?

The Buck 80 looks like a nice stove, I think you will really enjoy the wood heat.
 
Btw, I don't see a rectangular flue opening....is this a older used stove or new? The new 80's:
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/model-80.html#.Unezfvmsgyo)

Nevermind, I was mistaking the flue opening on the stove for the damper in the chimney....carry on ;)
 
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