Insert Surround Necessary

[cg711]

Is the surround piece on an insert necessary or it is just to dress up the front of the stove ?

I was doing my break in fire in my new Regency I3100 and wondered if I could increase my radiant heat output by removing the surround panels.

My insert is in an unfinished basement so function is more important than looks

Thanks
CG711

 

[granpajohn]

It is not necessary.
Look at the post by Funk Brother, with photo. (I hope I paste this in OK...) https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13710/
He has a great set up with no surround.

If it was a required safety item. there would be lawyer-talk all over that insert.

 

[weetim67]

While the faceplate is not an integral part of the insert I would be very careful and think clearly before doing this. If you are expecting more radiant heat to come from the part of the unit which is fully inside the fireplace when it is burning, I suspect it is fair to say that while it isn't burning you can expect cold drafts from there too.
The faceplate although more pleasing to the eye serves more purposes than appearance alone. There is the darft aspect along with the safety aspect. If the sides are exposed they are potential areas to burn hands etc.

Unless you were planning to replace the faceplate with something like brick or another finishing material of a fully non-combustible nature I would not install without a faceplate. It has too many potentails for hazardous conetations. My advice would be to install the faceplate and keep your home and family safe.

 

[begreen]

Seems to me it should be fine, though I'm not sure how much heating would be gained. Essentially, it would be no different than running a freestanding stove in a fireplace. I would add a damper block-off plate installed to keep the heat in the room and eliminate potential drafts.

 

[weetim67]

Respectfully there is a big difference between a freestanding unit in a fireplace than an insert without a faceplate in the same location. The freestanding unit has heatshields to keep the heat in, the insert doesn't. There would be majoer heat loss and instead of coming into the room I suspect it would go up the chimney. I have seen both over a few years in the industry and inserts without faceplates always give the opposite effect to that you wanted. Unless of course you replace the faceplate with something else.

 

[weetim67]

OOPS!! I also meant to mention the safety aspect with and without the heatshields.

 

[begreen]

Not every freestanding stove has heat shields. Many have sides that get quite hot.

 

[thechimneysweep]

In a full-reline installation with top sealer plate, the surround panels aren't necessary. When we sold Avalons, their "inserts" were exactly the same bodies as the Avalon free-standing stoves; you just omitted the legs or pedestals, and bolted on the surround panels if desired. We've installed Avalons and other brands without surround panels many times.

 

[cg711]

Thanks for the all the replys - especially the link to funk brother's setup from grandpajohn
while saftey is my first concern I want to squeeze every available BTU out of my insert ( Regency I3100) - with the goal of heating my upstairs - 1600 sq ft single story ranch - I know that it is best to locate the stove upstairs but that was not an option.

Now a little curveball - My insert is in a centrally located fireplace in the unfinished basement with full brick up to the floor joists - directly above that is a double sided fireplace on the first floor with full brick on both sides up to the ceiling. The flue from the basement fireplace is the center flue of my 3 flue chimney.

Will I gain more heat output by allowing the flue to get hot and allowing all that brick to warm up or is the flue temp from the insert tool low to get much radiational heating into the brick ?

Thanks again all !

 

[granpajohn]

...Will I gain more heat output by allowing the flue to get hot and allowing all that brick to warm up or is the flue temp from the insert tool low to get much radiational heating into the brick ?...

I imagine you would have to try it both ways to know, but FWIW....My dad has an interior brick chimney, and the kitchen is on the opposite side. He, years ago, built a wine rack in the kitchen, (you guessed it), next to the chimney. Well, he was amazed to find that a fair number of wine bottles were spoiled from hot storage. Of course, further investigation revealed that the chimney was a semi-good heater for the kitchen.
(Like I said...FWIW )
He runs a pre-EPA cast iron insert. Non-insulated chimney.

 

[karl]

I've brought this up few times and haven't gotten the best answer. Now that I have a Summit insert in my house and a Century free standing in the fireplace of a friends house. I can do some experiments.

I got that stove going today, and from what I saw in the few hours that it has been running, we're both on to something.

First thing, I don't buy the heat flow into the block chimney being a good way to heat a house. Those block are hollow. Even though they don't have holes in the bottom of them to allow a chimney effect, there is still a convective current. The air next to the block that is closest to the fireplace gets hots. The hot air flows all the way up the block to the roof, cools down, and then flows back down the block on the side that's furthest from the fireplace.

I would reccomend stopping the heat flow into the block. I was amazed at how good a sheet metal block off plate is at repelling heat. In my friends house, I lit the stove, got it hot and I could reach in and touch the block off plate. It was relatively cool. Granted heat is going through it and up the chimney, but the shiny metal reflects alot of the heat back down. The block in the fireplace on the sides of the stove was too hot to touch for more than a second or two.

Here's my plan. Put kaowool above the block off plate. Put strips of durock on the sides of the inside of the fire place. Put kaowool between the strips. Then mount sheet metal to the strips. Finally, polish the sheet metal with steel wool.

I have been reading up on radiant barriers. They work very well at stopping the type of heat we are generating. They require an air space to work well. Thus the reason to space the sheet metal away from the block.

If you do this you should stop alot the heat from going into the block and out of the house. I'm going to do this to her house in a few weeks. I'm also going to do it in my fireplace.

As for the surround. I have mine in place, but with a block off plate I don't see any reason that you have to have it. I would suspect you would get more heat out of the thing too.

I'm planning on louvering my surround and puting a fan in it to circulate the heat the normal convective jacket misses.