Insert vs freestanding woodstove

[HighHeat22]

I know this topic has probably been discussed at great length. But in a nutshell its seems to me inserts burn way more efficient with longer burn times than freestanding stoves. Ive only had 1 insert and about 5 freestanding stoves. But that insert was unbelievable compared to the freestanding stoves. I have 2 neighbors that currently have inserts and they are both just fantastic. I currently have a freestanding and as i said have had several. Am I correct on my thinking about inserts being better. Neighbor just bought a kuma insert and after breakin period started with 12 to 14hr burns in 20 degree weather. He came back after 24hrs and still had hots enough to start a fire. Im not sure of firebox size but it didnt look that big to me definitely under 2 cu ft. So are inserts superior to freestanding and why.

 

[begreen]

That definitely is subjective. In general terms, a freestanding stove often can have a deeper firebox. Inserts can be restricted by the fireplace depth. By definition, they need to fit inside a cavity which is not a constraint for a freestanding stove. That's why many inserts are E/W loaders which limits their full load capacity due to concerns about a log rolling up against the door glass.

The heating ability is often more about the house's design and heat loss than the stove's output or burn time. For example the identical stove in a house with 8' ceilings might appear to be better than when placed in the same sized area, but with a soaring 16' ceiling. The location of the heater also plays an important part as does the openness of the space.

 

[Dix]

I have one of each.

The PE insert has a bigger box (2CF) while the 13 is like1.6 .cf. Both have their plusses & minuses. For the total SF of this joint (insert @BrotherBart speaking here ) the 2 of them were the best solution(cost /efficiency) to my heating needs.

If I had to do it over again, I'd go with a bigger box for the 13 area, and a free stander for where the insert is.

 

[bholler]

If putting a stove inside a fireplace an insert is better. If you can put one Infront of the fireplace a stove will have a slight advantage. If you don't have a fireplace it doesn't matter you can't use an insert

 

[Woodsplitter67]

the efficiency ratings on the stove and inserts are set by the manufacturer and bot styles are extremely similar.. The free standing stove will put out alot of heat as all 4 sides are open and available to heat the surrounding air.. and no fan required..

Heat is somewhat subjective as a home with little insulation and 2x4 construction will feel a little colder in the house and will need to run the stove harder.. take the same stove put in a well insulated home with 2x6 construction and your turning that air back asking for less heat..

 

[begreen]

the efficiency ratings on the stove and inserts are set by the manufacturer and bot styles are extremely similar.. The free standing stove will put out alot of heat as all 4 sides are open and available to heat the surrounding air.. and no fan required..

Heat is somewhat subjective as a home with little insulation and 2x4 construction will feel a little colder in the house and will need to run the stove harder.. take the same stove put in a well insulated home with 2x6 construction and your turning that air back asking for less heat..

Good point. Also, an insert's heat loss to the masonry of an exterior fireplace can be significant.
And further, some inserts use the same firebox as their freestanding equivalent.

 

[shoot-straight]

Totally depends on setup. I have a full brick oversized fireplace chimney that's on an outside wall. An insert would have been a more efficient stove for me for sure. But- I like the look of my alcove install better.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Good point. Also, an insert's heat loss to the masonry of an exterior fireplace can be significant.
And further, some inserts use the same firebox as their freestanding equivalent.

I have my moments..right..

 

[Dix]

Good point. Also, an insert's heat loss to the masonry of an exterior fireplace can be significant.
And further, some inserts use the same firebox as their freestanding equivalent.

But an interior chimney, like mine, retains the heat.

 

[begreen]

But an interior chimney, like mine, retains the heat.

Exactly. The same insert in two different scenarios can appear to perform differently.

 

[danham]

Speaking of variables, this is one time that a double-sided freplace is a good place to run an insert, because I can open the "back doors" on the firepalce and get radiant heat sort of like a free-standing stove.

-dan

 

[begreen]

Speaking of variables, this is one time that a double-sided freplace is a good place to run an insert, because I can open the "back doors" on the firepalce and get radiant heat sort of like a free-standing stove.

That's why I recommend not enclosing the backside but instead covering the opening with a perforated or expanded metal screen.

 

[Poindexter]

Inserts suck.

5 of the sides are enclosed by masonry and depend on the electric company to move heat.

The fireboxes on inserts generally make compromises in the floor plan to fit inside a fireplace.

Freestanders rock.

All six sides are radiating BTUs into the house.

The firebox floors are generally rectangles so you can fit more wood into them.


Here is twenty virtual dollars to prove me wrong next time your power goes out. If you can legit prove your insert was better than a free stander next time your electric service goes down in winter weather I will mail you this piece of paper.

I do agree fireplace inserts are an economically reasonable, viable choice in many situations, especially in the original 13 colonies along the eastern seaboard. If you have the sqft, a better choice (from a strictly $/BTU perspective) is to leave the ambience burner alone and install a freestanding modern woodstove at the other end of the house.

 

[danham]

My experience contradicts yours, Poindexter, but will not cost you that $20 bill. I can't possible prove my insert is "better" than a free-stander. What I can do is prove, using room thermometers, that my insert, even sans fan, is way better than a gas furnace sitting cold during a power outage. And by better I mean capable of heating our entire 2-story 2000-sq ft home to comfortable temperatures ranging from 75 in the living room to 71 in the dining room and kitchen, to 65 in the farthest upstairs bedroom, working against an outdoor temp in the low 30s. All this while taking up no floor space in the living room. Better? Maybe, but apparently not 20 bucks worth. ;-)

To be fair, my install makes up for some of the weaknesses you describe. Of the 6 sides of my insert, two face into rooms (double-sided fireplace) and the two smaller sides, while they do face chimney bricks, are heating them and contributing to indoor heat because it's an internal chimney. The bottom is enclosed and therefore not a big contributor, but the top side also heats that chimney and its heat loss is minimized by a good insulated block-off plate.

 

[begreen]

5 of the sides are enclosed by masonry and depend on the electric company to move heat.

Those sides are usually encased in an outer cabinet through which the hot air convects, not masonry. If the fireplace is central interior, there is little heat loss. The mass of masonry releases the heat after the fire has died down. Flush fireplace inserts are pretty dependent on the blower, but not all inserts are flush. There are several that convect quite well without the blower. Careful with that $20, we have several people reporting good heat from their inserts during a power outage. Some only turn on the blower during very cold weather. And remember, there was the Regency H2100 hearth heater which was very reliable for heating with no power.



The suck side of some freestanders is that they take up valuable floorspace and sometimes are awkward to place due to chimney location.

You can deposit the virtual 20 in my blitzcoin account.

 

[Dix]

Here is twenty virtual dollars to prove me wrong next time your power goes out. If you can legit prove your insert was better than a free stander next time your electric service goes down in winter weather I will mail you this piece of paper.

The PE has an extended front Makes for easy heating if the power goes out. Unless it's very cold out, I don't run the fan, and if I do it's on low.

The PE puts out more heat with out the blower than the 13-NC freestander does over the long haul. Central chimney is a HUGE plus.

And if the power goes out, and I need electric, that's one of the many reasons I have a generator.