Insert vs. Wood Stove

[Setter Fan]

I am an owner of a Jotul 550 which is rated for 1,800 square feet in optimal conditions and I could not be happier with its performance and looks. When I purchased the unit my goal was to reduce my oil consumption which it has done in spades!


However curiosity makes me wonder how a comparably sized (3.0 cubic foot firebox) wood stove could better heat the entire house. Specifically thinking “for the future” about a Jotul 600 Firelight which would sit outside of an existing fireplace in a center chimney house of 2,600 square feet (Cape Cod style).


Are wood stoves just far and away more efficient than a similar size firebox insert? Would I expect to burn about the same amount of wood (more or less)? Not sure if others have had similar thoughts after their Insert purchase.


Attached is my current set up including dogs. The second picture is of the Jotul Oslo Wood stove which I would expect similar configuration in my house. Thanks ColdNH!

 

[DougA]

Many inserts are wood stoves with extra sheet metal to lower clearances on the back/sides. A wood stove radiates heat from all sides whereas an insert radiates from only the front and a blower moves the heat from the back and sides.

 

[jeff_t]

If you're happy with what you have, I would say keep it. I doubt you'd find enough difference to make it worth the effort. Unless you're bored, and have money to spend

We had an English setter when I was a kid. She was pure hunter, and when she got older and the pheasants got scarce, we were more likely to find her back at the house, waiting on us. She knew, smart dog.

 

[Setter Fan]

Thanks Jeff, he loves birds. I take him just about every weekend to either PA, NY or Maine to hunt Ruffed Grouse and Woodcock. He is young but getting the hang of it. Wife was a bit concerned about having a big dog in the house but he is very gentle and wants nothing more than sit in front of the fire, get petted and dream of birds.

Very happy with the insert but just thinking about the future... and what if... which is often expensive

 

[rwhite]

All things being equal...they are probably equal. However all things are not equal. Both are steel boxes and theorectically should heat the same. The difference is how far out of the fireplace you can place a stove vs insert. Inserts just don't allow you to come to far out the fire box. If you can get the entire free stander outside of the fire box then it will heat better than an insert.

 

[ridensnow23]

I have inserts because I have existing masonry fireplaces. If I did not have those or were doing new construction, I would put in a wood stove. You get a lot more radiant heat in the room with a stove over an insert because of the surface area. If you have a single wall pipe running from the stove to the wall or ceiling, the pipe will also radiate the heat. Much of the radiant heat from an insert goes up the chimney and into the masonry, which does not necessarily heat the room or house. This is why insert rely heavily on blowers, whereas a lot of people with the stoves can burn without having to turn the blowers on to heat the room.

 

[Hogwildz]

I don't buy a freestander heating ay better than an insert. A firebox of the same size, and same maker both insert & freestander is going to put out the same amount of heat, the same burn time. The only difference is an insert may use a blower to get the heat out of the old fireplace cavity better. You can also get blower for many freestanders to do the same purpose.Which in either I believe distributes heat, better than letting it come off the stove or insert and rising up to the ceiling right away. Only so much heat can get trapped in the fireplace cavity(if a block off plate is used) and the rest must go out into the room same as a freestander would do. Many can say one does better than another, but same box size, same heat output, same burn times. I don't buy the hype on freestanders. but don't dislike them either. Either will do the same job.

 

[RickBlaine]

Excellent points here people. Thank you! I just decided yesterday to go with a stove rather than an insert. I have a masonry fireplace from the 1950's and wanted the look of a stove peeking out.

 

[Sgt7330]

I am new here and own a cast iron insert. IF I did not have the fireplace,I would have went free-stander stove hands down. The radiant heat would be the plus. All that said, I love my insert. It solved the drafty fireplace issue and cut down on the LP gas drastically

 

[Nick Mystic]

For the first ten years my wife and I were in our present home we had an insert installed slammer style in our fireplace. Last February I replaced the insert with a Jotul F 600 free standing stove. I can't compare the insert to the stove fairly since the insert was an old pre-epa era insert and probably not very efficient. I can say that since I set the big Jotul wood stove out on the hearth extension in front of the fireplace we are getting much more heat with less wood being burned. Perhaps the next biggest benefit is that I no longer have to listen to the insert fan running 24/7. That in itself was worth the price of the change over, but really we couldn't be happier with how well the stove burns and heats. This is the first time we've enjoyed having a warm bedroom and it is just off the living room where the stove is located. The insert just couldn't get out enough heat to warm the rest of the house.

 

[Highbeam]

With that internal fireplace you're in better shape than most insert users. Almost as good as a stove. The stove will always perform as well or better than an insert.

 

[bholler]

I agree with high beam due to the fact that you have an internal fireplace most of the heat loss associated with inserts does not apply to you. yes you will initially loose heat to the fireplace structure but that will eventually be released back into the house. in your case you should have much more even heating characteristics than if it were a freestanding stove. so I feel in your case it is a matter of preference. by the way on exterior chimney installs we always line the fire box wit foil faced ceramic wool to reduce that heat loss and it seems to help.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

It may be just a coincidence, and it's certainly not very scientific, but I've been in lots of houses with free standing wood stoves and lots of houses with inserts, and I've never been overly warm in the houses with inserts. Sure they pump out the heat, but it seems to generally be more localized to the room they are in and only seems to be just adequate at best, and then there's always the fan noise. On the other hand, I've been in lots of houses with free standing wood stove where I found it too hot for my liking, and the whole house seems to be warm, rather then just the rooms next to the wood stove.
Also, the insert homes always seem to use the insert for supplemental heating to their electric or gas, or other method of heating their homes, where as in many cases the wood stove heated home I've been in depend entirely on them for their heat, with no supplemental heating devices.
Coincidence? Maybe. But it's a coincidence that's hard to ignore.
That being said, I'm sure a large efficient insert is likely to out preform a small crappy old outdated wood stove, and likely one of the reasons the inserts I've been around may not be heating as well as the wood stoves is because insert are generally limited in size. In most cases they have been retro fits designed to fit in the space of old fireplaces, and most wood stove aren't limited by this size restriction, so they generally have larger fireboxes. However even if the size restriction is the only issue as to why inserts don't seem to preform as well as freestanding stoves,,, it is still an issue worth considering.

 

[DougA]

For the first ten years my wife and I were in our present home we had an insert installed slammer style in our fireplace. Last February I replaced the insert with a Jotul F 600 free standing stove. I can't compare the insert to the stove fairly since the insert was an old pre-epa era insert and probably not very efficient. I can say that since I set the big Jotul wood stove out on the hearth extension in front of the fireplace we are getting much more heat with less wood being burned. Perhaps the next biggest benefit is that I no longer have to listen to the insert fan running 24/7. That in itself was worth the price of the change over, but really we couldn't be happier with how well the stove burns and heats. This is the first time we've enjoyed having a warm bedroom and it is just off the living room where the stove is located. The insert just couldn't get out enough heat to warm the rest of the house.

True, it's not an apples to apples comparison but it's close enough and sums up my impression exactly. I wanted to go from a stove to a ZC, just for the appearance but after a lot of research, changed my mind. Having to rely on a fan to push the heat out is not something I can do when I have so many power outages. Also, one of the many lessons I've learned from this forum is that fans are both noisy and prone to break down.

Nothing better than a post from someone with real before and after experience.

 

[adrpga498]

All I can say when I've lost power I can cook & heat the joint with the free stander. Nuf said.

 

[Setter Fan]

I really appreciate all the real world feedback on both inserts and wood stoves. My only small issue with the insert is the blower noise, which is quiet... but sometimes rattles. Otherwise it does everything I expected.

CT has had three major power outages in the last few years which has prompted us to get a generator. I have well water, oil heat etc so no power become unlivable very shortly.

Nick Mystic - does the 600 heat the entire house, if you don't mind me asking your square footage and is it an open floor plan.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

 

[Makers Mark]

82 degrees is pretty warm.

 

[Nick Mystic]

Our house has two self-contained levels, but we mostly live on the main first floor level that is 1400 sq. ft. There is another 1100 sq. ft. on the lower level that has its own Woodstock Classic wood stove. The upstairs has a very large living room with a cathedral ceiling and celestory windows. The living room, kitchen and dining rooms are a pretty open floor plan with two bedrooms at either end of the house. The Jotul F 600 keeps the upstairs as warm as 72 - 75 (our preferred temperatures) down into the mid-teens for lows.

 

[ColdNH]

Both pictures look great! I think your first paragraph of your first post says it all though. Why mess with something that works good and looks good?

If you weren't content I would be happy to convince you to switch things up tho!

 

[Hogwildz]

All I can say when I've lost power I can cook & heat the joint with the free stander. Nuf said.

Can do the same here with an insert. NUFF SAID

 

[flhpi]

If your Jotul has reduced your oil consumption then get a bigger Jotul and eliminate your oil consumption. I have never had an insert so I can't compare the two.

My old house had a fireplace with a 16 inch raised hearth. I put my VC Encore top load slightly sticking out of the fireplace and it worked great.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I like that my free stander still heats when the power goes out. Most modern inserts need the blower to get the heat into the room.

However, I wouldn't bother switching out stoves. A bigger stove will make more heat and in theory heat your house better, but it's just a big space heater - you might make the backrooms warmer but you'll definitely make the areas close to the stove unbearable.

 

[begreen]

Some inserts convect a lot better than others. Flush inserts usually need a blower to heat well. Inserts that project onto the hearth a decent distance will heat ok without the blower. This is the way PE inserts are designed. Some Regency and Osburn inserts also convect well naturally.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

I like that my free stander still heats when the power goes out. Most modern inserts need the blower to get the heat into the room.

However, I wouldn't bother switching out stoves. A bigger stove will make more heat and in theory heat your house better, but it's just a big space heater - you might make the backrooms warmer but you'll definitely make the areas close to the stove unbearable.

There is definitely some truth to that, but if you have the right situation, and/or use the right method you can certainly heat the whole house comfortable Things like fans and other mechanisms for moving the air around the house can help a lot. Also, what we do is make the biggest, hottest fires at night, just before going to bed, or just before leaving the house for the day, that way by the time we wake up, or return home, the intense heat has had a chance to disperse and moderate throughout the house.
The best wood heated house I ever lived in had the wood stove located in the basement and we didn't use fans at all. The basement had an open floor plan and the ceiling was open to the floor joist above. To heat the house above we often would keep the heat cranked up in the basement with that wood stove to the point where it was often uncomfortably warm down there, but the only reason we had to regularly go down there was to use the laundry room and feed the stove. The top floor was the main living space and heated nicely from below just by the heat migrating through the floor. Most of the outer basement wall was insulated, so we didn't lose much of the heat, and although the concrete floor may have absorbed a lot of the heat it tended to radiate it back into the house long after the fire went out.

 

[USMC80]

Hampton hi300 can heat my house without the blower