Inspecting Fireplace Through Heat Vents

[Barrie WETT Inspector]

Stone fireplace had been modified by home owner which resulted in fire. Wood studs had been added behind fireplace which caught on fire. I had inspected fireplace approximately 3 months previous.

Insurance Adjuster is claiming I should have been able to see improper construction through heat vents, which he says were not connected. Picture of fireplace with visible screen in stone face.

Anyone ever come across anything like this. Adjuster is blaming me for not properly inspecting fireplace and is basing his case on me looking through these tiny vents. This is the only picture he has showing vents of fireplace. I included a close up view of vent using photoshop. Not much to go on.

Regards

Roger

 

[begreen]

That seems like a stretch. Do the vents go clear to the back where the studs were added? Is wood visible through the vents?

 

[Barrie WETT Inspector]

Actually although the adjuster is basing everything on his assumption that improper installation would be visible from vents, he neglected to take any pictures or include any measurements. One would almost think that this was a deliberate oversight

Regards

 

[John Galt]

Looks like it'll go to court. Good luck.

 

[begreen]

Actually although the adjuster is basing everything on his assumption that improper installation would be visible from vents, he neglected to take any pictures or include any measurements. One would almost think that this was a deliberate oversight

Regards

Passing the buck is what it sounds like. Do you normally carry a borescope with you?

How did studding the wall behind the fireplace catch so quickly? Was brick removed? Or is that not what actually caused the fire?

 

[bholler]

Actually although the adjuster is basing everything on his assumption that improper installation would be visible from vents, he neglected to take any pictures or include any measurements. One would almost think that this was a deliberate oversight

Regards

I don't know whether or not you would have been able to see it or not but you should always be inspecting inside the vents with a borescope

 

[spudman99]

When I order a Real Estate Home Inspection, I expect the professional to know the ins and outs of the house and diagnose conditions that might cause problems for the homeowner. I would think a fireplace inspector would look for clearance issues when doing a single appliance inspection which includes the unit, flue and surrounding structure. Ignorance is not an excuse. While one can argue that it may exceed best practices or peer level expectations, areas that can be seen and not looked at are ripe for criticism. Termite inspectors are not held responsible for what's not visible in the wall but certainly will poke, prod and test suspect areas to make sure there is no problem.

 

[Ludlow]

How were studs added behind the fireplace? And why exactly?

 

[Barrie WETT Inspector]

How were studs added behind the fireplace? And why exactly?

According to Adjuster and Building Dept no building permit was taken out for renovation. Wood Studs were added too close to heatilator and smoke chamber. ( wood studs and tar type insulation. ) Then new Stone veneer was added. Adjusters measurements appear to collaborate this but picture quality on his report are really bad. Possibly the way he added to PDF report but I would be embarrassed to provide a report with such poor quality pictures.

 

[begreen]

Wood studs and tar paper next to a hot firebox, what could go wrong?

The question then is whether the heatilator has metal heating ducts connected to the vents or if their vents were just connected to a masonry surround acting as the ducts. If it is the former than nothing would be visible thru the vent grilles. Can you get back there to verify?

 

[bholler]

Wood studs and tar paper next to a hot firebox, what could go wrong?

The question then is whether the heatilator has metal heating ducts connected to the vents or if their vents were just connected to a masonry surround acting as the ducts. If it is the former than nothing would be visible thru the vent grilles. Can you get back there to verify?

I have never seen any that had metal ducts they have all been masonry. But that doesn't mean there aren't any. Or that the wood would have been visible even if it was all masonry

 

[Barrie WETT Inspector]

The adjuster stated that heat vents were not connected. But the fire dept had pulled most of material out from behind fireplace. Even if not connected there could have been drywall, plastic or any other product against heat duct openings prior to fire, not to mention that the openings that were visible on picture look to be 1/8 to 1/4 inch in width, not exactly a view port for inspection to back of fireplace.

Just seems so unprofessional for an adjuster to make a statement that is not based on facts just to try and attach some liability. I actually went to court about 10 years ago against same guy where he was testifying on mould in a house. I had at least 20 pictures of black mould in my report and he was basing his opinion on pictures taken by his client. I cross-examined him and asked him where he had taken a course or training on interpreting pictures for mould, which of course he hadn't. Judge threw out his testimony. I was found not-guilty and home seller ended up getting costs for his lawyer.

 

[begreen]

I have never seen any that had metal ducts they have all been masonry. But that doesn't mean there aren't any. Or that the wood would have been visible even if it was all masonry

True. If the tarpaper was in contact with the face of the heatilator above the firebox opening, nothing would show. A friend has a heatilator style with tubes, but they are at the top of the firebox and vent to a grille above.

 

[bholler]

The adjuster stated that heat vents were not connected. But the fire dept had pulled most of material out from behind fireplace. Even if not connected there could have been drywall, plastic or any other product against heat duct openings prior to fire, not to mention that the openings that were visible on picture look to be 1/8 to 1/4 inch in width, not exactly a view port for inspection to back of fireplace.

Just seems so unprofessional for an adjuster to make a statement that is not based on facts just to try and attach some liability. I actually went to court about 10 years ago against same guy where he was testifying on mould in a house. I had at least 20 pictures of black mould in my report and he was basing his opinion on pictures taken by his client. I cross-examined him and asked him where he had taken a course or training on interpreting pictures for mould, which of course he hadn't. Judge threw out his testimony. I was found not-guilty and home seller ended up getting costs for his lawyer.

Those vents can almost always be removed for inspection. If not it does look like a borescope would fit in there. You should be inspecting in those vents every time I have seen many problems hurried in there.

 

[bholler]

True. If the tarpaper was in contact with the face of the heatilator above the firebox opening, nothing would show. A friend has a heatilator style with tubes, but they are at the top of the firebox and vent to a grille above.

Yeah checking in the vents doesn't gaurantee there are no hidden problems. But it is an easy spot to check and it can catch some problems