Please help - fireplace smell days after burn, tried everything

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

Hey everyone -

Truly hoping you guys can help me out. I've read every single thread I could find on fireplace and smell on this forum and reddit, but haven't been able to figure out how to solve our problem.

Situation: We purchased a split level home built in 1970 a few months ago, with a stone, exterior fireplace. When in use, it's perfectly good, no issues with smoke or smell. We burn everything to coals, let them cool with the damper open, and then shut it the next day. And the day after, the entire house smells like a campfire. We reached out to the previous owners, who were completely shocked and said that while they had normal fireplace smell, nothing like what we're describing. They lived here for 30 years so I completely believe no one would put up with this level of smell for that long. So that leads me to believe that something that's been done since we moved in has created the problem. Part of the issue is definitely that the HVAC is near the room with the fireplace, and when the heat (or AC i imagine) is on it's drawing in air. But this was the identical setup the previous owners had, so clearly something has happened to suddenly make it suck in all the chimney air.

The things that changed:
- The previous owners swept, re-mortered and did repairs on the chimney with a reputable company before moving out. I believe they fixed the liner, as well. They did not light the fireplace after doing these repairs prior to selling the home, which makes me wonder if something got messed up during this process.
- We installed overhead lights in the room with the fireplace, which is directly below our bedroom (so no attic) and a few others. We also replaced the old fans.
- We did some mild work to draft-proof the home's doors, but it's still extremely leaky so by no means air tight. Just maybe slightly less drafty.

Things we've tried:
- Installed a fresh air intake, at the advise of our chimney sweep. Did not help, at least as we're using it (maybe we're doing it wrong?)
- Did an additional chimney sweep - did not help
- Cracked open windows - did help, but not practical in the winter
- Lit candles - did help, but again not practical as full time solution
- Put a blanket over the fireplace - nothing
- Leaving the damper open all the time - did help maybe 50%, but still smelly and also cold
- Lighting another fire - works like a charm, but then it all starts again
- Baking soda in fireplace - meh

Things we haven't tried:
- Top damper, chimney sweep advised it would make problem worse
- Air-proof doors, as it doesn't seem there's anything truly air proof and air would get out anyway (also it's expensive)
- Having an HVAC company come in and try to check the ducts because again, expensive
- Deep cleaning the fireplace area and damper beyond what the sweeps did

I am completely confused and frustrated, and can't figure out what to do or try. Help?

 

[stoveliker]

Any bathroom or kitchen remodels?
I.e. any fans exhausting that did not exist before?
New boiler or furnace?

Did the liner repair change things near the damper too (poorer fit?).

With more tight places in the envelope, maybe the balance just got so that it's easier to draw air past the damper.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

Any bathroom or kitchen remodels?
I.e. any fans exhausting that did not exist before?
New boiler or furnace?

Did the liner repair change things near the damper too (poorer fit?).

With more tight places in the envelope, maybe the balance just got so that it's easier to draw air past the damper.

Nothing in kitchen or bath apart from some overhead lights in bathroom, we haven’t touched the boiler, furnace, etc. Not sure on the chimney repair, I called them back and asked for help diagnosing the issue. If it’s something from the repairs, what would the solution be?

 

[stoveliker]

If they made the damper fit worse, you'd have a larger leak where air can leak in


If they changed the (metal) liner from an insulated one to a non insulated one, air would cool down a bit quicker in the flue. Cold air.sinks and enters your home.

In the end something has to have changed in the air flow in the home.

Or the previous owners had poor scent? (Not being callous here, but older.folks sometimes don't smell well...)

 

[begreen]

What floor is the fireplace on? Is there more than one flue in the chimney? Is there more than one fireplace or wood stove venting there?

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

If they made the damper fit worse, you'd have a larger leak where air can leak in


If they changed the (metal) liner from an insulated one to a non insulated one, air would cool down a bit quicker in the flue. Cold air.sinks and enters your home.

In the end something has to have changed in the air flow in the home.

Or the previous owners had poor scent? (Not being callous here, but older.folks sometimes don't smell well...)

I’m honestly not sure, but will ask the company. And nah. You’d literally need to be missing a nose to miss this, unfortunately.

So sounds like the only solution is to investigate what the chimney company did, rather the mess with or add anything else.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

What floor is the fireplace on? Is there more than one flue in the chimney? Is there more than one fireplace or wood stove venting there?

Fireplace is on the bottom floor (not basement though) of a split level. Only one flue that I’m anware of and only one fireplace.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Radon mitigation system installed?

Was insulation moved around in the attic? Was there any ceiling work done to the upstairs ceiling? Any holes cut?

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

Radon mitigation system installed?

Was insulation moved around in the attic? Was there any ceiling work done to the upstairs ceiling? Any holes cut?

A few fans were replaced upstairs, could that be it? Just normal ceiling fans replacing older versions, no footprint changed.

No radon and nothing in attic as far as I’m aware.

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

With no fire, open the damper. Smell worse or better. Do you feel air hitting your hand with damper open/closed? (You can wet your hand to help determine) Damper open/closed with window cracked slightly?

Is there a cap on the chimney, or if there was, did they not replace it or vice versa?

I sometimes get a down draft when it's not burning season, and it smells like burnt wood. Happens once or twice a year to me.

 

[EbS-P]

Some people are really sensitive to smoke smell. I’m one of them. My dad who is 73 can’t smell a thing. If previous owners lived there long enough it’s totally possible they never noticed the smell or never burned the fireplace recently.

Our house built in 1965 has a fireplace upstairs and down. We never burned the fireplace downstairs. The upstairs has glass doors. It was about like yours. I’m sensor smoke and would cough for a day or two after each fire.

Our solution was a wood stove (and insert in the basement) with full insulated 6” liner. No smoke lots of heat. It’s so much more enjoyable.

What is your budget to fix the smoke smell and how important is having a wood fire?

 

[FPX Dude]

I had a negative pressure problem too, here's a few of things I did to mitigate the issue. Even with damper closed, I used to stuff a towel in the hole to stop the air when not in use. I had recessed can lights that were non IC rated, I got covers and sealed those as they created huge air holes. In my 2 story house, I would tape and hang cellophane from ceiling various location to see why air was flowing the direction it was. I found the major culprit was upstairs gas fireplace in master bedroom that was venting and creating the issue, so sealed that as well.

 

[begreen]

This does seem to be a case of negative pressure in the lower part of the house. There are many things that can cause this. A common culprit is air leakage in the upper part of the house. This could be via windows or doors not sealing well, an attic vent that is not closed off in the winter, exhaust fans with a stuck or missing draft damper, etc. Active exhaust systems can also cause this. Examples are kitchen and bath fans and clothes dryers. Sometimes an imbalanced whole house vent system can be the culprit, or a radon fan system.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Were any trees removed outside that may have changed wind patterns? I agree on negative pressure sucking in air from the chimney.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

With no fire, open the damper. Smell worse or better. Do you feel air hitting your hand with damper open/closed? (You can wet your hand to help determine) Damper open/closed with window cracked slightly?

Is there a cap on the chimney, or if there was, did they not replace it or vice versa?

I sometimes get a down draft when it's not burning season, and it smells like burnt wood. Happens once or twice a year to me.

It's better with damper open, and window cracked slightly. Does that confirm low air pressure?

There is a cap, and it was replaced.

We could absolutely deal with a few times a year! It's the every day situation that's driving us nuts,especially with little kids.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

Some people are really sensitive to smoke smell. I’m one of them. My dad who is 73 can’t smell a thing. If previous owners lived there long enough it’s totally possible they never noticed the smell or never burned the fireplace recently.

Our house built in 1965 has a fireplace upstairs and down. We never burned the fireplace downstairs. The upstairs has glass doors. It was about like yours. I’m sensor smoke and would cough for a day or two after each fire.

Our solution was a wood stove (and insert in the basement) with full insulated 6” liner. No smoke lots of heat. It’s so much more enjoyable.

What is your budget to fix the smoke smell and how important is having a wood fire?

That's a really fair point. An insert is definitely something we'd look at if we can't fix this in any other way, but since we just purchased the house really trying to avoid another 5-10k, purchase.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

I had a negative pressure problem too, here's a few of things I did to mitigate the issue. Even with damper closed, I used to stuff a towel in the hole to stop the air when not in use. I had recessed can lights that were non IC rated, I got covers and sealed those as they created huge air holes. In my 2 story house, I would tape and hang cellophane from ceiling various location to see why air was flowing the direction it was. I found the major culprit was upstairs gas fireplace in master bedroom that was venting and creating the issue, so sealed that as well.

Sorry just to clarify, you stuffed a towel above the damper? Just a regular towel, or were you able to make it airtight somehow?

For the recessed lights, which we also have, do they need to be coming into the attic or roof to be an issue? We did put in recessed lights in the same room as the fireplace but the ceiling goes into a room in the second floor, nothing outside. Could that still be causing the pressure issues? And how on earth do you seal them if there's no access from on top?

 

[begreen]

It's better with damper open, and window cracked slightly. Does that confirm low air pressure?

It's another indication.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

This does seem to be a case of negative pressure in the lower part of the house. There are many things that can cause this. A common culprit is air leakage in the upper part of the house. This could be via windows or doors not sealing well, an attic vent that is not closed off in the winter, exhaust fans with a stuck or missing draft damper, etc. Active exhaust systems can also cause this. Examples are kitchen and bath fans and clothes dryers. Sometimes an imbalanced whole house vent system can be the culprit, or a radon fan system.

Would it always be upper, or could it be lower too (basement?) Ours is definitely cold. On the second floor though, how do you recommend checking to see what could be leaking air? I guess we can take off the covers of exhaust fans and see if there's a draft damper, but is there a way you'd recommend figuring out what the culprit is or is it trial and error?

The HVAC is consistent, so I wouldn't assume it's an issue since the previous owners had it for years. No radon.

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

Were any trees removed outside that may have changed wind patterns? I agree on negative pressure sucking in air from the chimney.

Not that i'm aware of, but honestly a bit tough to tell.

So if it's negative pressure, sounds like the next step is to figure out what upstairs (sounds like it has to be upstairs or attic, right?) is leaking air? Or is there another thing I should be doing?

 

[Confusedsoconfuswd]

It's another indication.

Gotcha, thank you. So sounds like next step is to figure out what upstairs (can't be downstairs in basement right?) is leaking air out of the house? If something is leaking air into second floor (ex. we put in recessed lights into the room with the fireplace, but they go up into a bedroom on second floor, not outside) that wouldn't be problematic, right? I'm only looking for air leaving the house? Or could it be anything.

 

[begreen]

Leaking or exhausting air. And this can be compounded by something downstairs that is also competing for air like a clothes dryer or furnace or boiler.

 

[begreen]

Gotcha, thank you. So sounds like next step is to figure out what upstairs (can't be downstairs in basement right?) is leaking air out of the house? If something is leaking air into second floor (ex. we put in recessed lights into the room with the fireplace, but they go up into a bedroom on second floor, not outside) that wouldn't be problematic, right? I'm only looking for air leaving the house? Or could it be anything.

Are the joist cavities that the lights are in somehow open to wall stud cavities?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are the joist cavities that the lights are in somehow open to wall stud cavities?

That’s a really good thought. Unless balloon framed it’s not probable, but one of the problem areas for energy loss in capes are the open stud ends. Maybe you could get a convection current if things are just right?

 

[DuaeGuttae]

It does sound as though negative pressure in the lower level could be your issue. If you don't feel that you are able to isolate leaks and drafts on your own, you can have an energy audit done. In our previous homes we found local professionals to conduct them for us. They cost, but you make up the cost in energy savings if you implement chances based on the problems identified. It's also possible that your power company may perform audits or provide rebates on the cost, so that's the first place you should check.

You keep mentioning that the previous owners never had a significant smoke smell and therefore the existing systems in the house shouldn't be the problem. I'm not sure that's going to be accurate, however, given that different people have different sensitivities, and people living in certain environments get habituated to the smells. I can walk into my mother's house at times and smell significant smoke, especially during certain types of spring weather when she's not burning her wood stove, and she hasn't noticed a thing. When our family lived with her for a time a couple of years ago, her woodstove would backpuff and release smoke into the house. I could smell it from the back bedroom with the door shut, and she wouldn't notice it while she was sitting in the very same room. The previous owners may have had the very same problem you have and be being completely honest with you when they tell you that they never had it because they simply didn't notice. All of that is to say when you are investigating the problem, don't just look at changes you've made, but look at everything.

Are the recessed lights that you installed the type that have a can and space around a bulb, or are they the more modern kind that fit snugly to the ceiling?

In the first home that my husband and I owned we had a fireplace in the finished daylight basement. It could get a smoke smell even if we hadn't used it. We installed an insert with a surround that completely covered the opening, and that eliminated the problem. If you don't want to go to the expense of an insert you could find a way to cover the face of the fireplace. It might be worth doing with something temporary just as a test.

I'm sorry that you're going through this, especially with all the rest that's involved with moving with small children. Rest assured that you're getting some good advice from the folks on this forum, and they'll help you find a solution.