Post ice storm replace or upgrade fireplace?

[Smother8299]

Hello! I recently survived the TN Ice Storm and no power for days, during which I put a fireplace to the test, and was pretty disappointed. I'm trying to figure out what I can do about it.

I've got a 2022 installed Superior WRT3036WSI instealled in a framed/plywood chase. It's been fun to use, and before this winter never gave me any problems. In January, we were hit with Winter Storm Fern, and our power went out (ultimately for 9 days, but we bailed on day 3). The fireplace couldn't keep the house warm, and I understand it's because it's inefficient, heat goes out the chimney, cold air gets sucked in from elsewhere, etc.

Now I'm wishing I had something that could have actually kept the house warm. I'm looking into what it would take to replace this fireplace with some kind of woodstove, perhaps Zero Clearance? But the terminology is dizzying. So, I guess, two questions:

1. Could I swap out the fireplace with some kind of Insert? Seems like in this case it would be a Zero Clearance, correct? Can I just find something that's the same size as our current fireplace and make the swap, or are there other considerations? I'm assuming it's just wood and plywood inside the chase around the fireplace.

2. If that's a bad idea, is it possible to make this existing fireplace better? Would an outside air kit help at all?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

For clarity's sake, some definitions can be helpful. This is a Zero Clearance (ZC) fireplace. An insert, is a stove that can be inserted into a fireplace. In many cases an insert is only permitted in masonry fireplaces, but there are some exceptions. For the Superior WRT3036, the manual states:
"Do not install a fireplace insert in this fireplace unless the manufacturer's instructions with the insert specifically state this fireplace has been tested for use with this insert."

Lopi inserts have been tested for Superior fireplaces that permit insert installation so that is theoretically possible. Which model Lopi will depend on the size of the current ZC's firebox and how large a room is being heated.

The alternative is to replace the current ZC with an EPA ZC that is designed to heat efficiently and has gravity vents that allow it to heat the room when the power is out.

 

[bigealta]

Does anyone have any rough figures on the heat output and efficiency of

1. EPA ZC fireplace
2. EPA Insert stove
3. Freestanding EPA woodstove

Just looking for a general idea

Obviously there are lots of variables but really looking for the answer to:
"Hey what is the best wood heater i can get that will keep my house warm in 20F outdoor temps when the power is out for a week or more. "

 

[jalmondale]

Depending on the model, you'll get 70-85% for all 3 (although I believe you'll have a lot more options available for 2 & 3). While it's not hard to run a small fan off a solar-rechargeable battery, it's worth noting that options 1 & 2 will typically need a blower for maximum heat production.

 

[begreen]

Does anyone have any rough figures on the heat output and efficiency of

1. EPA ZC fireplace
2. EPA Insert stove
3. Freestanding EPA woodstove

Just looking for a general idea

Obviously there are lots of variables but really looking for the answer to:
"Hey what is the best wood heater i can get that will keep my house warm in 20F outdoor temps when the power is out for a week or more. "

Too broad a question. There are all sorts of sizes and designs with different specs. They run the gamut. Go to the EPA woodstove database for specifics.

Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA

 

[EbS-P]

Now I'm wishing I had something that could have actually kept the house warm.

How big of a house? How is the insulation and air sealing? How the fireplace room connected to the rest of the house? and how warm do you want it? Sold fuel appliances are basically great room heaters but how well the heat gets distributed depends on the house.

If you are wanting emergency backup heat think about the categories. Short vs long and normal cold vs record cold.

I don’t think one system covers all four permutations without compromises.

Did you suffer damage from frozen pipes? This last storm is probably the worst case. Did you have a generator? Could you get fuel if you had one?


My cheapest recommendation is to add a freestanding Drolet stove sized to your heating needs.

 

[Smother8299]

Thanks for the replies everyone, this is all helpful to think about.

There are definitely other places to seal up the house to make it more efficient. The downstairs of my house is a log cabin, so none of the windows or doors seal well. New windows would go a long way. I'm thinking about replacing them eventually.

I'm looking at the fireplace first because right now it's just three sheets of cement board that we need to finish out with stone or tile or something, and before I do I want to make sure there aren't any major changes I want to make.

I'm looking at the Superior WCT6920 at the moment. I measured the space and I seem to have the space needed, and the manual shows zero clearance in the diagrams.

Things I hadn't thought about before making this decision the first time: a stove of some kind requires way less babysitting than an open fireplace. I grew up with woodstoves and it's very different to have an open fire with little kids around.

Also, I don't think it's worth chasing an appliance/system that truly heats the whole house when, in reality, we only use it for maybe 4 months out of the year (although those are some expensive months).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

With a wood stove/insert/zc, you’ll need to store wood. Not knowing the space you have available, would a generator make more sense so that you could power your normal source of heat? I don’t know what type of fuel you may have on hand either.

 

[Rickb]

You could remove the old fireplace demo the wall up to the ceiling then install a woodstove that only requires ember protection. The best way to heat with wood is a stove. The new ZC fireplaces are good but I doubt any are going to be as good as a stove.

Its basically what I did. tho I never had a fireplace installed just the chase. Then as I finished everything I trimmed it all out to be a alcove install.

 

[J67Broz]

Thanks for the replies everyone, this is all helpful to think about.

There are definitely other places to seal up the house to make it more efficient. The downstairs of my house is a log cabin, so none of the windows or doors seal well. New windows would go a long way. I'm thinking about replacing them eventually.

I'm looking at the fireplace first because right now it's just three sheets of cement board that we need to finish out with stone or tile or something, and before I do I want to make sure there aren't any major changes I want to make.

I'm looking at the Superior WCT6920 at the moment. I measured the space and I seem to have the space needed, and the manual shows zero clearance in the diagrams.

Things I hadn't thought about before making this decision the first time: a stove of some kind requires way less babysitting than an open fireplace. I grew up with woodstoves and it's very different to have an open fire with little kids around.

Also, I don't think it's worth chasing an appliance/system that truly heats the whole house when, in reality, we only use it for maybe 4 months out of the year (although those are some expensive months).

I replaced a 30 year old ZC fireplace this past fall with a new EPA ZC and have to say I am totally regretting it. My unit performs well as long as the outside temperature is 30F and above. Below that it just struggles to keep the house warm. The only reason I went with another fireplace was the dealer assured me it would be adequate for my space and it would "heat me out of the house"...total BS. A fireplace looks great - but are not true performers when it comes to heating. Even the new EPA units cannot compare to a proper stove. I'm planning tearing out the ZC and putting a stove in. Just my $0.02.

 

[begreen]

The Lafayette II has a usable firebox load of 2 cu ft. It sounds like a 3 cu ft unit may have worked better. How sq ft is the house?

 

[J67Broz]

The Lafayette II has a usable firebox load of 2 cu ft. It sounds like a 3 cu ft unit may have worked better. How sq ft is the house?

House is just shy of 2000 sq ft. The Lafayette is rated to 2200, so even though I'm near its top end, I was led to believe it would be more than adequate. Funny thing is that it replaced an old Heat-N-Glo CBS-41 which had a much smaller firebox but put out twice as much heat than the Lafayette. You're absolutely right, the bigger Waterloo would have been the appropriate unit.

 

[begreen]

Ratings are marketing speak. There is a big difference in heating a modern home in Portland, OR vs an older farmhouse in VT. And a big difference in heating at 32º vs 0º and windy. The Lafayette II may be less radiant, but it should put out decent heat convectively.

 

[Smother8299]

We looked into a woodstove, but after figuring in clearances it would take up too much of the room. The house isn't big, and it would be giving up too much. Also we can't rip out the wall because it's a log cabin and that could get... unstable.

I think given that we're in TN and a normal cold night here is 20s, maybe teens, we could do an EPA ZC and it would be pleasant and comfortable in the room, plus put out enough heat to take the pressure off the HVAC.

Seems like the lesson is to just get the bigger EPA ZC? Is it worth it to look into the gravity kits?

 

[J67Broz]

We looked into a woodstove, but after figuring in clearances it would take up too much of the room. The house isn't big, and it would be giving up too much. Also we can't rip out the wall because it's a log cabin and that could get... unstable.

I think given that we're in TN and a normal cold night here is 20s, maybe teens, we could do an EPA ZC and it would be pleasant and comfortable in the room, plus put out enough heat to take the pressure off the HVAC.

Seems like the lesson is to just get the bigger EPA ZC? Is it worth it to look into the gravity kits?

I would think a bigger EPA ZC and gravity kit would be the best solution, especially for use during a power outage.

I didn’t do with a gravity kit. Instead I went with the forced air kit that uses a ducted fan to move warm air to the second floor. However, in my case, most of the time the forced air kit cools the unit to the point that it hinders heating the area where the fireplace is located.