Basement woodstove, backdraft, carbon monoxide

[BarrelStove69]

Good day folks!

We are first time woodstovers who just moved to our dream home in the country, located in Northern Ontario.

We have been running into issues regarding carbon monoxide and backdraft.

We have a very large, locally forged, cast-iron, barrel style, top-loading woodstove. This is was installed in the home in ' 92 when it was built.

It is located in the basement of our 3-story home and has a very tall external chimney. There is no damper. There is a fresh air intake located to the left of the stove, and the flue has two 90 degree bends before shooting straight up.

We have been running into issues lately with the colder weather (-30C) in regards to carbon monoxide and backdrafting.
Establishing successful updraft to light our fire and keep it going is not the problem whatsoever, although, when we allow the fire to cool completely it seems the backdraft becomes so strong that it reignites the embers, resulting in buildup of carbon monoxide in our home. The gasses still escape the woodstove, even with the airvents on the top closed. This is clearly due to our perfect storm of the stack-effect, and a cold chimney as a result of it being outside. The reason this never posed an issue for the previous owner is because 1. Burnt hot all winter (Full cords were about 650$ less 30 years ago) and 2. He would turn all of the CO detectors off.

We have a few viable options to help our situation, and I was hoping some of the woodstove-veterans here can tell me if we are on the right track.

1. UNINSULATE the woodchute door.
- We have a wood chute door located in the woodstove room. When we moved in it was quite drafty, so we sealed that bad boy up (thinking the more air tight, the more heat we will retain from the already inefficient woodstove). I am now thinking that the cold albeit fresh outside air helped with the negative pressure, and helped feed the fire for complete combustion.

2. SEAL the cracks in the stove itself
- There are a few hairline cracks in the cast iron that we will temporarily seal with cement glue, while we wait for a welder to come out and seal them closed.

3. SEAL the door
- We plan to glue in a rope gasket to ensure proper seal on the woodstove door.

4. DRAFT INDUCER
- Given how we have the perfect storm for potentially going to bed and not waking up, I feel like a draft inducer would help with the issue and give us peace-of-mind. How effective do you think this will be in establishing updraft and preventing CO problems, despite the external chimney still being very cold? I would hate to invest in a 400 dollar piece of equipment just for it to not work. However, I would also hate to cut my life short because the woodstove was installed to be a death trap.

5. OTHER THINGS
- We do not open windows upstairs (the front door could probably stand to be weather sealed), we barely have any fans/other exhausts going, we only burn dry seasoned wood (<20% moisture), we had a chimney sweep done beginning of the season, and the stove was WETT certified before we moved in.

So, if anybody has any advice, i'm all ears. If anybody has ever encountered a woodstove in this style I would like to hear your opinions on it, as I can't find anything online about anyone else having a similar style. And when the time comes to get a new woodstove, would we still have the same issues that we're having now?

Attached below are photos of our setup, and a horrible drawing showing the layout of the flue/chimney system.

BONUS points if you can tell us how to make this thing function more efficiently too; we are having a hell of a time getting the house nice and hot without burning an insane amount of wood. We were thinking of installing some floor grates throughout the house to help with heat dispersal and air flow.

 

[begreen]

Visually, this looks like a combination of bad design and implementation. The long tall outside chimney is bound to be cold. As the fire dies down, draft reversal is likely. The thimble is low. A 3ft vertical rise off of the stove would help a bit. If the upstairs has air leaks, then that will contribute to negative pressure in the basement. The stove should not be run with any cracks like that. If the basement is not insulated, a ton of heat is being wasted to the outdoors through the walls.

Is that an air supply tube next to the flue thimble?

A good solution would be to put a new stove on the main floor instead of heating it from the basement.

 

[kborndale]

The only advice I have is not to use that stove. It does not appear to be safe. Any money you planned to put into that stove I would put towards a new stove.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Can you post a picture of the nameplate?

 

[BarrelStove69]

Can you post a picture of the nameplate?

I don't believe it has a nameplate, I will check again when I get home to be sure - but I believe it was made locally in 90s.

 

[BarrelStove69]

Visually, this looks like a combination of bad design and implementation. The long tall outside chimney is bound to be cold. As the fire dies down, draft reversal is likely. The thimble is low. A 3ft vertical rise off of the stove would help a bit. If the upstairs has air leaks, then that will contribute to negative pressure in the basement. The stove should not be run with any cracks like that. If the basement is not insulated, a ton of heat is being wasted to the outdoors through the walls.

Is that an air supply tube next to the flue thimble?

A good solution would be to put a new stove on the main floor instead of heating it from the basement.

Yes, that is an air supply next to the flue thimble.

See, putting in a woodstove on the main floor would prove difficult, as pretty much the entirety of the main room, in the main floor is windows. It's super unfortunate that the house was built this way. It's a beautiful home, don't get me wrong. But a country home heated by woodstove should be designed around the main heating source, in my opinion.

If we can't install a woodstove on the main floor, do you think a new, certified would stove would help rectify the issue? Would it be capable of heated the main floor? Sorry for all of the questions, just so green to all of this!

 

[BarrelStove69]

The only advice I have is not to use that stove. It does not appear to be safe. Any money you planned to put into that stove I would put towards a new stove.

Dang :'( Things ain't cheap these days!

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is an air supply next to the flue thimble.

See, putting in a woodstove on the main floor would prove difficult, as pretty much the entirety of the main room, in the main floor is windows. It's super unfortunate that the house was built this way. It's a beautiful home, don't get me wrong. But a country home heated by woodstove should be designed around the main heating source, in my opinion.

If we can't install a woodstove on the main floor, do you think a new, certified would stove would help rectify the issue? Would it be capable of heated the main floor? Sorry for all of the questions, just so green to all of this!

If the stove has a good and close back clearance spec then the windows shouldn't be an issue, but the flue system may need to be redone and go straight up through the roof.

A new stove would solve the cracks and would have no top openings, but that will not solve the inherent problems with the chimney and basement install. Note that a good used stove will help bring the cost down. Just be very careful with what is bought.

 

[kborndale]

For a new stove that is good quality and inexpensive (relatively) look at drolet stoves. Also that stove looks like it would burn thru wood almost as fast as an open fireplace.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I don't believe it has a nameplate, I will check again when I get home to be sure - but I believe it was made locally in 90s.

To be honest, I would start to question the guy who gave you a WETT certificate. Or maybe never contact him again.
Any stove that is to be WETT certified (for your insurance), the step A is the nameplate info.

 

[kborndale]

To be honest, I would start to question the guy who gave you a WETT certificate. Or maybe never contact him again.
Any stove that is to be WETT certified (for your insurance), the step A is the nameplate info.

Looks homemade to me, I doubt it was ever certified.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Looks homemade to me, I doubt it was ever certified.

People are selling their old wood stoves for $50 and you come pick it up. Their insurance companies want WETT certified in Canada, and those old stoves don't have the approvals they need. Plus, I've seen stoves where the nameplate was removed or un-readable. The next thing they look at is the chimney system.

 

[BarrelStove69]

For a new stove that is good quality and inexpensive (relatively) look at drolet stoves. Also that stove looks like it would burn thru wood almost as fast as an open fireplace.

Why, is it because of the gargantuan size of it?

Thank you for the recommendation! I will certainly look into that.

 

[BarrelStove69]

Looks homemade to me, I doubt it was ever certified.

Yeah, when our chimney sweep came by he said some guy in one of the surrounding townships makes them. I'm assuming that's where this absolute beast came from.

 

[BarrelStove69]

To be honest, I would start to question the guy who gave you a WETT certificate. Or maybe never contact him again.
Any stove that is to be WETT certified (for your insurance), the step A is the nameplate info.

Good to know. After all of these trials and tribulations I too am surprised it passed the inspection.

 

[BarrelStove69]

People are selling their old wood stoves for $50 and you come pick it up. Their insurance companies want WETT certified in Canada, and those old stoves don't have the approvals they need. Plus, I've seen stoves where the nameplate was removed or un-readable. The next thing they look at is the chimney system.

Aaaah okay. When the times comes to invest in a new woodstove system we'll probably buy new. We're so green to the world of woodstoves and I know used can come with some quirks, haha.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Up to 30% of the heat your stove makes can be sucked into the concrete, and then into the ground. At -30, I imagine that number may be higher. If you figure by insulating the basement, you could burn 30% less wood, suddenly the cost seems less.

On the same idea, air sealing the house is really inexpensive and has huge benefits. A few tubes of caulk can save hundreds of dollars.

Both of these will save regardless of the source of heat.

 

[all night moe]

That is a really nice home. Any pics of the main floor? Perhaps a drawing of the layout?

We may be able to effectively determine a good spot for a stove.....where you would really enjoy it most.

 

[EbS-P]

Is it a 6” or 8” chimney? The fact there was a wood chute should clue you in to how much wood it will consume!

I would investigate the possibility of moving the new stove up to the main level.

 

[Geezer77]

Visually, this looks like a combination of bad design and implementation. The long tall outside chimney is bound to be cold. As the fire dies down, draft reversal is likely. The thimble is low. A 3ft vertical rise off of the stove would help a bit. If the upstairs has air leaks, then that will contribute to negative pressure in the basement. The stove should not be run with any cracks like that. If the basement is not insulated, a ton of heat is being wasted to the outdoors through the walls.

Is that an air supply tube next to the flue thimble?

A good solution would be to put a new stove on the main floor instead of heating it from the basement.

OOH, OOH, I like that, turn off the alarm! Good God, what some people will do!

 

[Geezer77]

Dang :'( Things ain't cheap these days!

Ya know the old saying, the only thing still cheap is me! Yes stoves have gotten expensive but they really are better.

 

[BarrelStove69]

That is a really nice home. Any pics of the main floor? Perhaps a drawing of the layout?

We may be able to effectively determine a good spot for a stove.....where you would really enjoy it most.

Alright, so, there is ANOTHER woodstove upstairs they would use only occasionally on very cold night. I am toying with the idea of moving that existing woodstove to the main floor, cutting a hole through the floor and just adding flue/chimney to the existing chimney. Hope this makes sense.

So the upstairs woodstove would be directly below where it is now, utilizing what's already there. So we would have a main floor woodstove with an internal chimney.

Thoughts on if this could work?

Attatched are photos of the current upstairs woodstove and its specs, and where it would go if moved to the main floor.

I understand that we would have to put something firesafe on the floor and the walls behind the woodstove - any recommendations on what we could use that won't look like an eyesore is welcome.

There is also electric baseboard heating on those walls that I'm assuming will have to be removed, as it would cause a fire hazard.

 

[begreen]

The Pacific Energy stove that's shown was a good one and much safer. This one is old, but the design is solid and parts are still made for it. What is its condition internally?

The idea proposed is ok, but with a major caveat. Stove pipe can not pass through the room envelope. In order to do as planned, it must be chimney pipe that goes through the roof and upstairs floor resting on a ceiling support box in the main floor ceiling. This means that the existing upstairs chimney support may need to be replaced.

As long as the clearance requirements are honored, there is no need for additional wall shielding.

PS: Looks like a really nice home.

 

[BarrelStove69]

Ya know the old saying, the only thing still cheap is me! Yes stoves have gotten expensive but they really are better.

Bahaha! I like that! Good point

 

[begreen]

Just supposing here. What is at the main floor interior location of the exterior chimney pipe that connects to the basement stove?
I'm thinking another option would be to raise the tee to the first floor and run it through a thimble at that location. Then connect the PE stove there. If possible that might be a much less expensive option if the PE stove is in good working condition.