Install between two stone walls

[sandie]

Here is my install so you can see it is inside stone walls and think that is my problem getting the heat out to the room but want opinions.
The thermostat is now on the griddle top and not the pipe, the manual says for it to be on griddle top right corner. I just can not get the room warmer than 68 and it is 20 outside. The house is 62 with house heat but this room is unheated unless we use the electric heat. I would like to get this room warmer, using hardwood and have burned all day, it is on the second load now since 10 or so this morning, running 400-500 but the worry is that I am heating the stone walls and back and up the chimney more than out to the room. There is only a plate at the top of the chimney about 16ft high or so. No room above this room so chimney comes out this and the garage roof as this room backs to the garage(unheated). The installer ordered the insulation and plate for a plate to be placed down below where the damper was for this fireplace which I am hoping will stop heat from going up to chimney but do not think that is the total problem but wonder what you guys think.

 

[cmonSTART]

Well, the insulated block off will do something for you. As for the stone walls, while they may seem to "steal" heat at first, the should in fact store heat and continue to radiate it after the stove goes out.

 

[sandie]

You would think but I think the stored heat is also being sucked up the chimney. The kettle on the stove- the steam goes backward and to the chimney and up I am sure. I am hoping pulling the stove out from the walls and putting in the blocking plate will allow much higher temps into the room since right how burning all day and it is 65.7 in this family room and should be higher for sure with the stove 400-500 don't you think?

 

[wellbuilt home]

I would see if you could get a blower that would blow air from the floor up the back of the stove and out , It should help alot . John

 

[sandie]

john I do not have any room in the back at the floor to add a fan. The fire place where logs were placed before we did this wood stove was at a little lower than waist level and the wood stove is butt up to tthe stonewall in back. I have thought about sitting a fan on the floor of that fireplace facinig forward across the top of the stove and blowing hot air into the room but not sure I would not be cooling the stove off instead which would work against the intended purpose. Getting the stove moved out onto the stone heath pad thinking that will help and the blocking plate, hope at least.

 

[Todd]

The insulated blockoff plate will help but there is still a lot of heat loss to the surrounding masonry. Is there a rear heat shield available for that stove? It would help push some of the heat out into the room. Also might try to install some sheet metal between the masonry and stove to reflect the heat? Your stove is more of a radiant heater and it is surrounded by close heat sucking materials. If you had a convection style stove with blower you would have better results.

 

[sandie]

yes, that is why I want to move the stove out onto the masonry stone fire pad so the heat radiates off sides and back and yest there is a rear heat reflector but it was not installed when they put the stove in for some reason so when it is moved will put the reflective back on.
Someone once talked on this forum about a reflective shield that is 3 sided, and thought it was made by Vogelzang but can not find it. any one know where to find one?

 

[Todd]

Something like this?
(broken link removed to http://www.plowhearth.com/product.asp?pcode=681&cm_mmc=Tagged-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&mr;:referralID=NA&mr;:trackingCode=NA)

 

[sandie]

YES but taller so it would reflect the wood stove, the one shown is for a fireplace and would work great for that but for the wood stove it needs to be taller I think. I thought it was Volzang(sp) company but cannot find it now.

 

[begreen]

An insulated block off plate at lintel height may help. But it would help to know if these are all interior stone walls or are some exterior? If exterior, then I would move the stove into the room and put a regular damper block off plate in. No point in heating up the outdoors any more than you have to.

 

[sandie]

The stone walls are inside the room for sure, the chimney is stone inside the house and backs to the garage so the back wall of the chimney is in my garage which is not heated at all.

 

[madison]

I believe wellbuilt was referring to a bolt on fan, not a box fan or such. And I would agree, you need to create some air movement around the unit (under and up).

 

[sandie]

the purpose of which would be to get the hot air out to the room or ?? I do have a small circular fan about 2ft from the stove blowing forward and toward the stove thinking I would be able to get the hot air out into the room better until I get the stove pulled out into the room by about a foot whiich will clear the sides fo the stone walls and put the refector on the back if I can get it cleaned up and such, shape it is in now has stuff (?) on it so it is not reflective at all, the way I received it.

 

[gizmos]

Nice stove, should pump out the heat. Use a block off plate, then run the stove around the clock for 3 days. All that stone will then start radiating heat back into the room.

 

[sandie]

It had not been really cold enough for me to use up wood for the night til morning burn so it does totally cool down since I go to work during the day and then make my fire at night and let it burn out once I go to bed. Once I get the load of wood here then will feel better about burning 24 / 7 but even then I would be leaving for work so not sure it would stay hot til I get home, work 9 hrs a day at local VA Hospital.

 

[snowtime]

My guess is you are loosing a lot of heat because of the common wall with the garage. If all this rock was inside then you would eventually accumulate enough heat that it would act like a masonry stove but thats not the case. If I understand you you do not have a block off plate and thats what the installer is bringing. Thats good and he should have done that in the first place.

My fix is install the block off plate, Move stove so its at least 1/2 in room. Beside putting much of the heat in the room instead of in the wall this will give you space so if you need to put a fan behind you can.

 

[gizmos]

I agree
block off plate for sure
but your going to need to run the stove to heat up that much stone, brick.
You can get 8-9 hr burns out of this stove with hard wood, easy.
You would notice a big difference if you loaded it up right before bed and right before you left for work.
Hard wood, and damper down.

 

[sandie]

I intend on bringing the stove out of the walls same dimension as as the stove is deep so that the whole thing will be out from the stone but will radiate back heat to the stone work but that is ok as long as sides are exposed to room air. I have not had a lot of wood so did not use at night but once I get the load of wood in then will use overnight on weekends at least. There is a block off plate but it is at the top of the chimney below the cap and the chimney sweep installer thought that was fine. I talked with another chimney installer not related to this one at all and he said that he installs the block off at the top and felt that once heat is in the chimney it just circulates out into the room and there was no reason to do a block off plate at the lower part of chimney and it was hard to place and a waste of time. WELL I am having my installer put in the blockoff plate and he says he is waiting for the insulation, I assume it is fire wool or whatever one uses for this purpose. He seems amenable to doing it but said he had not ever done one before in the many years installing wood stoves.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like you are on the right track. A lower block off plate will help. If we didn't have many cases where folks have seen a difference, we wouldn't be suggesting one. Bringing the stove forward so that it can convect into the room better should also help. I'm wondering if some insulation board covered by a sheet of metal on the back wall would help reflect heat into the room and prevent it from trying to heat the garage. But that can be tried later, one step at a time.

It's pretty hard to get good dry wood this late in the season. Not impossible, just hard. Be picky and ready to refuse a load if it is not seasoned or you may end up paying a premium for wood that can't be burned this year.

 

[snowtime]

Stick to your guns. Most here that install a blockoff plate just above the stove have good luck. In fact it has solved many a problem. I also think your doing it right by bringing it out from wall. Remember that the pipe going from stove to chimney should have a slight elevation. You want the smoke to have an easy path out. I would think 1/2" per foot would be good. Getting all the little things taken care of will give you years of safe stove use. Tell the installer how you want the pipe before he begins. Most do not want to change after so resist and say this will do.

 

[sandie]

stove pipe being on up slope toward chimney- is it true of older non catalytic stove/ I think this VC Resolute lll is EPA approved but back in 1985.

 

[begreen]

Yes, normally smoke doesn't like to go downhill. Maybe consider coming off the stove exit with a 45° angle, to a short straight piece, then a second 45° to connect to the liner.

 

[sandie]

Gizmos, You say Damper down are you talking about the actual damper to the stove pipe or the aircontrol flap in back? OR both. I would think at night it would be damper down and flap down so the burn would be the longest but am I wrong? Would it be completely down so no air getting in except through secondary hole on left side rear at night after getting the fire going and at 500 or so then damper down and wait a little bit and then shut down the "themostat" flap for the night. Do I have that right?

 

[snowtime]

I second BeGreens 2-45 degree angle idea. It will definitely help on draft.

 

[gizmos]

Damper down. I was referring to the main damper on the left side of the stove. The one thats up and you rotate down pointing towards the floor. This is the main control for draft and the secondary air chamber.

First control is the small round hole on the bottom left side of the stove. It provides constant air flow to the chamber on the left side of the stove. Adjust this to your stove and don't touch it. Each stove is different depending on your elevation and how tight you stove is. Start with 3/4 open and go from there. Once you find a good spot it don't mess around with it.

The second control is the damper which when open there is no obstruction for the hot gasses to head out the chimney pipe. This is in the open position when you load your stove. When the damper is closed (down position) it is sending the hot gasses into the secondary chamber and back to the hot coals before heading out the chimney. This slows and controls your burn. You should only see the hot vapor out the top of your chimney. When the stove is running right with a good bed of coals, its very effective.

The third control is the gas pedal. this it located in the back left had side, and has a coil box and, chain on it. this acts like a thermostat. (I attached a photo) This is the most important control to learn how to use. You can run at the temps you want when you get this control where you want it. (make small adjustments) If the stove is 600 degrees and the gas pedal is just open a 1/4 inch, as the stove cools the thermostat coil contracts and raises the gas pedal allowing more air to flow in to keep consistent temps and burn.
The trick part of it is to not allow slack in the gas pedal. If you want the pedal closed at 600 degrees just push it over just enough to close the pedal to the desired position (don't go all the way). There is also a V notch in the bottom cast to allow some air in, even when the pedal appears to be closed when you are looking down at it from the top.

With proper setting I can run this stove at the temp I want plus or minus 50 degrees.

After start up, run 3-4 smaller splits of wood damper open. On you second load, when you reach temps (around 500 plus) you can damper down. But always let the wood burn for 5-10 minutes before you turn the damper down. And don't mess with the gas pedal. If you have it a the temp you want, don't worry about it. The pedal has opened by its self as the stove cooled. Leave the damper open to allow the new wood to start burning, then turn the damper down. Your temps will rise back to where you like to be as the gas pedal slowly closes as the temps rise. When its been running for a couple days, there are so many coals I can just load and damper down right away.

At night, before bed, get it going good, then load this puppy up, hard wood, rounds, and damper down. at 550- 600 gas pedal should be closed just past the cast iron (it's still letting in a little bit of air through the V notch) and you will have good long burns.

Good luck !