Install is Done

[jcappe]

Finally finished the install on my Woodmaster 4400

If this aquastat gets below 110 degrees the propane furnace will kick in.

The beast itself

90 ft of Timesaver piping

My wife will finally have enough hot water to fill her jet tub

Our 4 seasons room is on the west side of the house and is full of windows. This will be our second winter in the house. Last winter there was a noticeable temp difference between the 4 seasons room and the rest of the house. I zig zagged pex through the floor joist to try and create some extra heat and last night when the boiler was going for the test run I could feel the "hot spots" in the floor! For the extra $80-$100 in pex and fittings I figured I would give it a try. Once i get the basement and floor joist insulated and sheet rocked it should make a big difference. I don't think I've ever actually looked forward to winter other than winter means I get to go hunting but this year is a little different, I'm kind of excited to get it stoked up and start heating. My wife says I'm worse than a kid at Christmas.

 

[sdrobertson]

Welcome to the forum jcappe ,the install looks good and I know what you mean about looking forward to colder temps. My wife calls this forum my boiler system the "other woman".

 

[dirtslinger]

Finally finished the install on my Woodmaster 4400

Our 4 seasons room is on the west side of the house and is full of windows. This will be our second winter in the house. Last winter there was a noticeable temp difference between the 4 seasons room and the rest of the house. I zig zagged pex through the floor joist to try and create some extra heat and last night when the boiler was going for the test run I could feel the "hot spots" in the floor! For the extra $80-$100 in pex and fittings I figured I would give it a try. Once i get the basement and floor joist insulated and sheet rocked it should make a big difference. I don't think I've ever actually looked forward to winter other than winter means I get to go hunting but this year is a little different, I'm kind of excited to get it stoked up and start heating. My wife says I'm worse than a kid at Christmas.

How well does your heat exchanger work in your cold air return

 

[trehugr]

Welcome to the Boiler Room jcappe

Is that boiler bolted down ? I've heard of some pretty crazy winds in your neck of the woods. I took down a huge willow in a front yard in Des Moines about 20 years ago. Tornado season was coming, and they couldn't afford to hire a tree co. They fed me and put me up a couple days, then I was on my way. Good people in Iowa.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

How well does your heat exchanger work in your cold air return

I don't know that how well it will heat there is important - he should definitely consider moving it. Running hot air over the air-cooled blower motor could cause it to fail prematurely, and blower motors are not cheap...

Joe

 

[Sting]

how hot do you "think" the air moving over the blower will be joe? Even if makes 190 water in the outhouse [and likely will not most of the season] - by the time it hits the HX -- well is certainly isn't going to scorch much air!

Some days I read your posts and just have to wonder! ---- hummmm Like today perhaps :>)

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

how hot do you "think" the air moving over the blower will be joe? Even if makes 190 water in the outhouse [and likely will not most of the season] - by the time it hits the HX -- well is certainly isn't going to scorch much air!

Some days I read your posts and just have to wonder! ---- hummmm Like today perhaps :>)

Anywhere between 100 and 150, depending upon the coil size, airflow, and water temp.

Flowing over a blower designed to be cooled by 60-85-degree air.

And, of course, it doesn't matter what it will do "most of the season." One or two days of high-temp air could cook a blower motor.

There's a reason why air handlers are built with the cooling coil first, then the blower, and then the heating coils.

Joe

 

[jcappe]

Welcome to the Boiler Room jcappe

Is that boiler bolted down ? I've heard of some pretty crazy winds in your neck of the woods. I took down a huge willow in a front yard in Des Moines about 20 years ago. Tornado season was coming, and they couldn't afford to hire a tree co. They fed me and put me up a couple days, then I was on my way. Good people in Iowa.

LOL! I don't have it bolted down, if the winds are that bad or there is a tornado that close to the house the Woodmaster is the least of my worries.

As far as the HX being placed where it is, it has been working great. I pretty much didn't have any choice in where to put the Heat Exchanger. It didn't fit up above. There are several people around here that have it this way due to the same reason and have been doing so for quite awhile. I guess we'll see.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

As far as the HX being placed where it is, it has been working great. I pretty much didn't have any choice in where to put the Heat Exchanger. It didn't fit up above. There are several people around here that have it this way due to the same reason and have been doing so for quite awhile. I guess we'll see.

I'd be curious to see a picture of the upper area, since it's rare that we can't find some way to fit a coil...

Joe

 

[brad068]

how hot do you "think" the air moving over the blower will be joe? Even if makes 190 water in the outhouse [and likely will not most of the season] - by the time it hits the HX -- well is certainly isn't going to scorch much air!

Some days I read your posts and just have to wonder! ---- hummmm Like today perhaps :>)

Sting, I agree with Joe. I was looking at a couple electric motors that I have, and the tags say 40*C(104*F)max ambient air continuous. My hx is mounted horz. in the bottom of my downdraft furnace. When the water exceeds 170*F, the thermal switch for the fan will trip(which is set at 130*F) and start the fan like every 10-15 min. And the switch is 2.5 ft. above the hx. This is caused by extreme convection which I hope to solve with a zone valve.

 

[flyingcow]

how hot do you "think" the air moving over the blower will be joe? Even if makes 190 water in the outhouse [and likely will not most of the season] - by the time it hits the HX -- well is certainly isn't going to scorch much air!

Some days I read your posts and just have to wonder! ---- hummmm Like today perhaps :>)

Sting,
I was a HVAC installer. Tin 'nocker,( for 12 years) enjoyed it. Did 24 story commercial buildings, all the way down to residential. I was a field man. Did huge air handling systems, down to house type stuff. You NEVER put the hx before the the fan/blower( for the reasons that Joe pointed out). I have done alot of field measuring of duct work. Basically, the heat coil will fit anywhere you want to put it. You may intially think that it costs too much to reorder the duct work, but these blower motors are not cheap. Or quite possibly not available when they burn up.

 

[feelingasi]

hopefully the hx isn't upstream of an a/c coil. really hot air moving across an "a coil" can create some pretty insane pressures! in the a/c unit. I know there tested at 300 psi or more but why take the chance. IMHO there is nothing that cant be modified with a bunch of s-cleat and a sharp pair of snips. Get the HX downstream of all furnace related equipt.

 

[SnaykeByte]

I agree with the don't put the HX upstream of the blower thing, but it isn't a problem to put the HX upstream of the evaporator. Normal head pressure in an A/C system when fully loaded with the condenser seeing 95 degree air will be much more than you could ever get it up to with the HX heating the air upstream of the evaporator.

 

[pybyr]

how hot do you "think" the air moving over the blower will be joe? Even if makes 190 water in the outhouse [and likely will not most of the season] - by the time it hits the HX -- well is certainly isn't going to scorch much air!

Some days I read your posts and just have to wonder! ---- hummmm Like today perhaps :>)

Sting,
I was a HVAC installer. Tin 'nocker,( for 12 years) enjoyed it. Did 24 story commercial buildings, all the way down to residential. I was a field man. Did huge air handling systems, down to house type stuff. You NEVER put the hx before the the fan/blower( for the reasons that Joe pointed out). I have done alot of field measuring of duct work. Basically, the heat coil will fit anywhere you want to put it. You may intially think that it costs too much to reorder the duct work, but these blower motors are not cheap. Or quite possibly not available when they burn up.

if there really, truly is no way to get the HX downstream of the furnace, and if the furnace has or can be set up for a belt drive blower, perhaps you could run a "jackshaft drive" out of side of the furnace and hang the blower motor outside of the furnace, where the motor won't get so hot? there's always more than one way to get around a bind

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I agree with the don't put the HX upstream of the blower thing, but it isn't a problem to put the HX upstream of the evaporator. Normal head pressure in an A/C system when fully loaded with the condenser seeing 95 degree air will be much more than you could ever get it up to with the HX heating the air upstream of the evaporator.

It can be an issue with heat pumps, if there is no safety interlock. Could have the refrigerant side running under full load, and the hot-water coil going.

Installed and programmed properly, the thermostat should only send a signal to one or the other, not both. However, I would recommend installing a snap-disk or other non-adjustable temperature sensor on the hot water coil, to positively interrupt the control signal to the heat pump. You don't want some service tech years later to accidentally leave the hot water zone valve on bypass, and have both running at once.

if there really, truly is no way to get the HX downstream of the furnace, and if the furnace has or can be set up for a belt drive blower, perhaps you could run a "jackshaft drive" out of side of the furnace and hang the blower motor outside of the furnace, where the motor won't get so hot? there's always more than one way to get around a bind

Yeah, that's a possibility on older furnaces. I think it's unlikely that you couldn't find a place for the coil that would be less work (since you'll need to build a pretty good framework, to keep that shaft aligned).

For example, I'm working on a job now where one of the buildings to be heated as an old Thermopride OL33. The furnace was clearly installed without a heat loss, as it is about 3-4 times the size needed for this building. It is physically too large for the space, in addition to being thermodynamically excessive. The plenum is only 13" high on top of the discharge. One option was to install a coil essentially in place of the filter rack, and install a belt-drive system to put the motor above the coil (without penetrating the side - the belt would have run up along the side of the furnace, but inside the case, with a block-off plate to keep air leakage to a minimum). The other option was to install two separate coils, on in each of the two main trunks that comes off that plenum. Custom-fabricating a frame and belt-drive blower assembly worked out to be much more money than buying two coils and doing some tin-knocking.

Joe

 

[jcappe]

I'll post a pic of what I had to work with. Maybe I could have done something different and just didn't know any better.