Installation Issues

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philt

New Member
Dec 13, 2021
33
Birmingham, UK
Hi, I posted the following thread last December about our smoking stove - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/problems-with-new-stove-smoke-in-room.190144/

We've since had that stove pulled out and replaced with a new one and used a different company to install.

The new installers told us about a number of problems they found, including incorrect placement of the CO alarm and just an all round cheap rush job, wonky hearth cheap cowl, register plate not fully sealed, and something I'm getting mixed advice on:

He'd used some kind of silicone sealant where the stove pipe meets the flexi stainless flue liner, the new company say it looks like some kind of window sealant not rated for high temp and has melted, meaning we didn't have a proper seal which affected our draw and coupled with a not fully sealed register plate and CO alarm on side of chimney breast was potentially dangerous.
We went to previous installer, who we weren't happy with already as he was very rude and unhelpful, he says he used a high temp sealant, it doesn't look like it's melted and he said it's purely cosmetic anyway and just to stop debris getting into the stove, and according to him has no effect on draw. Question is, who is right?

We are really not happy with the guy that installed our first stove and if his poor workmanship was the reason behind the first stove not performing correctly then we are really out of pocket having had a new stove installed. New one works perfectly but we are not sure if that is to do with a better install or it just being a better designed stove.

Frustrating to say the least, any advice would be much appreciated. Here is a pic of the afore mentioned stove pipe with sealant:

Stove 01.jpg
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,414
South Puget Sound, WA
The sealant is probably some form of silicone. Most of them are rated in the 400-600º range. It's not necessary and normally not used on stovepipe or liners because they can reach higher temperatures than this.
 

philt

New Member
Dec 13, 2021
33
Birmingham, UK
The sealant is probably some form of silicone. Most of them are rated in the 400-600º range. It's not necessary and normally not used on stovepipe or liners because they can reach higher temperatures than this.
Interesting, any idea what the new fitter might have meant when they said this was the cause of poor draw? Or why the first guy would have used it?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,414
South Puget Sound, WA
I don't think that would have any effect on the draw unless it was covering up a sloppy pipe fitting. People do all sorts of things when they are not sure of the right way to do things. We see overkill ideas here frequently.
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,706
07462
@begreen would you agree the best install doesnt not use any sealant, meaning properly sized parts (mostly found when using the same company components for the whole install) and if a gap is encountered like stove collar to flue pipe connection it would be better to use rope gasket or flat gasket between the inner and out edge with screws or clamps to make a tight connection?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,414
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes. There is no sealant on any of our stove's pipe joints.
 

philt

New Member
Dec 13, 2021
33
Birmingham, UK
This was the other side of the pipe, would that cause an issue? None of this makes any sense to me. Both sides saying different things, although it sounds as though first guy was right despite the other things he did wrong?

IMG-20220825-WA0002.jpg
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
On the other hand, if the install was done sloppily, and a big gap exists there, then yes, it would decrease draft because part of the influx into the chimney will come through that gap (and is colder) rather than through the stove.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,414
South Puget Sound, WA
LOL, that's silicone. It looks like someone blew his nose on the pipe.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
;lol
I thought the same but did not want to say it. That pipe looks SICK.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
It is on the outside of the top end. The pipe there should have been inside this pipe..

So either they really didn't know what they were doing or it didn't cover up any hole at all. Imo.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
If the install was done properly, then yes. If it was to cover up gaps (and that pic is rather concerning given the orientation) due to an inappropriate install, then the install was not safe and caulk won't fix that.

So yes. In either case it's useless.
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,706
07462
I know a picture can say 1,000 words or it can not say 1,000 words, but looking at the photo and not seeing any screw holes across the top part of the black pipe (could be a bad pic too) I'm going to say that the liner was floated into the black pipe with no stainless-steel liner adapter that would mate the end of the liner to the smoke pipe or stove collar if the liner was long enough.
 
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philt

New Member
Dec 13, 2021
33
Birmingham, UK
I know a picture can say 1,000 words or it can not say 1,000 words, but looking at the photo and not seeing any screw holes across the top part of the black pipe (could be a bad pic too) I'm going to say that the liner was floated into the black pipe with no stainless-steel liner adapter that would mate the end of the liner to the smoke pipe or stove collar if the liner was long enough.
There is a screw hole at both sides, I think he screwed the flue liner inside that. There was no adapter or anything.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,284
Long Island NY
But if the flue liner is inside that pipe, why is the caulk on the outside?
 

philt

New Member
Dec 13, 2021
33
Birmingham, UK
But if the flue liner is inside that pipe, why is the caulk on the outside?
Not a clue, that's why I asked him about it, he said it was to stop debris getting on top of the stove. Unless I'm mistaken and he stuck the flue liner onto the outside of this pipe. But that's a 5" pipe and a 5" flue liner so I don't know if that's possible. I think the guy has done a complete bodge but I can't work out how it actually affected my first stove 😅
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,414
South Puget Sound, WA
I'm sorry you had to go through such trials. Hopefully, this is all behind you now. How is the new setup working out?
 

GrumpyDad

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2022
562
Champion, PA
This was the other side of the pipe, would that cause an issue? None of this makes any sense to me. Both sides saying different things, although it sounds as though first guy was right despite the other things he did wrong?

View attachment 298976
oh great googly moogly! It looks like your stove pipe needs liposuction.
 

ericm979

Burning Hunk
Nov 2, 2018
208
California
You can see in the first pic that the end of the pipe is damaged and not round. Maybe it was damaged during removal but if it was installed like that I think it would leak.

Sorry your installer was incompetent. I hate it when I pay "professionals" to do something and they do a terrible job.
 
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