Installation question(s)

[Solesurvivor78]

I am working with a builder on an appropriate design for the Vermont Castings wood stove we are interested in. This is new construction and we don't want a fireplace. But we will have a brick Chimney with a flue on the outside of the house since this is a two story construction. So there will be a 90 deg elbow coming off the stove into the brick wall face then into the flue with a tee connector going up and out and some sort of clean out access for the bottom of the tee. The question is on a two story construction will this draw well enough with the two 90 degree turns? I know it is recommended to do two 45's for better flow but we would like a mantel above the stove and the 45's would probably mess that up. Suggestions? Advice. I have the flexabiltiy on design since we haven't started building yet, but I have a few things I need to consider.

Thanks in advance

 

[bholler]

I am working with a builder on an appropriate design for the Vermont Castings wood stove we are interested in. This is new construction and we don't want a fireplace. But we will have a brick Chimney with a flue on the outside of the house since this is a two story construction. So there will be a 90 deg elbow coming off the stove into the brick wall face then into the flue with a tee connector going up and out and some sort of clean out access for the bottom of the tee. The question is on a two story construction will this draw well enough with the two 90 degree turns? I know it is recommended to do two 45's for better flow but we would like a mantel above the stove and the 45's would probably mess that up. Suggestions? Advice. I have the flexabiltiy on design since we haven't started building yet, but I have a few things I need to consider.

Thanks in advance

I would do some research on Vermont castings stoves before committing to that stove

 

[Solesurvivor78]

I would do some research on Vermont castings stoves before committing to that stove

Open to the idea. Looking for a top loader if possible that is attractive. Suggestions?

 

[jetsam]

I would also reconsider the venting plan.

That is a setup for someone who has decided to compromise venting because they really want to use an existing masonry chimney.

To pay $10,000+ to build a masonry chimney that will make your stove work worse? Not me. Vent that puppy directly, make the stove happy, and save a ton of cash.

 

[Solesurvivor78]

I would also reconsider the venting plan.

That is a setup for someone who has decided to compromise venting because they really want to use an existing masonry chimney.

To pay $10,000+ to build a masonry chimney that will make your stove work worse? Not me. Vent that puppy directly, make the stove happy, and save a ton of cash.

Help me out with this since I am a bit new to all this. The stove is on the first floor in the living room. There is no way I can go straight up. I don't see that as an option.

 

[bholler]

Help me out with this since I am a bit new to all this. The stove is on the first floor in the living room. There is no way I can go straight up. I don't see that as an option.

You can run the chimney up through a closet or box out the corner etc. Lots of options. It costs much less and performs better.

 

[jetsam]

Help me out with this since I am a bit new to all this. The stove is on the first floor in the living room. There is no way I can go straight up. I don't see that as an option.

Why is there an issue? If there's no living space above the stove, the flue goes straight out the roof. If there is living space, it gets a chase, which can be put in a closet since it's new construction.

 

[Solesurvivor78]

Why is there an issue? If there's no living space above the stove, the flue goes straight out the roof. If there is living space, it gets a chase, which can be put in a closet since it's new construction.

I see what you are saying now. And yes the expense would be reduced. We had hope to have a mantel above the stove that would be unobstructed by the stove pipe. My wife wants to mount the TV above the mantel since that would be the central location in the room. Lots of factor I need to balance. We had a fireplace put in the original bid/estimate so cost wise I was comfortable with it.

What about the drawing attached?

 

[Bad LP]

Personally I would not have a stone or brick wall on any exterior wall of the structure.

 

[Solesurvivor78]

Personally I would not have a stone or brick wall on any exterior wall of the structure.

Can you expand on that?

 

[jetsam]

I see what you are saying now. And yes the expense would be reduced. We had hope to have a mantel above the stove that would be unobstructed by the stove pipe. My wife wants to mount the TV above the mantel since that would be the central location in the room. Lots of factor I need to balance. We had a fireplace put in the original bid/estimate so cost wise I was comfortable with it.

What about the drawing attached?

Same as the original idea. Much more expensive than standard venting, worse draft, annoying to clean out. And as BadLP just pointed out, if it is an exterior wall you are installing a huge permanent heat sink to suck BTUs out of your house. If it is an interior chimney, that doesn't apply.

Stoves are not vented through old fireplaces because it is a good design. Stoves are vented through old fireplaces because the hole is already there and it is cheaper and easier to line the masonry than it is to do do a new roof penetration. So for someone with an existing masonry fireplace, they need to decide which way to go.

With new construction, it's not much of a decision because there are so many disadvantages to putting a big brick thing on an outside wall and putting a bunch of 90s in your flue pipe. (Plus doing it wrong costs tremendously more up front, and you have to maintain the stack over the years.)

Don't get me wrong- I am venting through an old exterior chimney right now, so I understand that there are reasons people might do that- but there's lots of reasons that you shouldn't.

 

[bholler]

I see what you are saying now. And yes the expense would be reduced. We had hope to have a mantel above the stove that would be unobstructed by the stove pipe. My wife wants to mount the TV above the mantel since that would be the central location in the room. Lots of factor I need to balance. We had a fireplace put in the original bid/estimate so cost wise I was comfortable with it.

What about the drawing attached?

That will work fine straight up works better but you have enough height through the wall will be ok. just make sure the wall pass through is done correctly and the liner is insulated.

 

[illini81]

Consider yourself very lucky. You are building a house, so you have a lot of options as to stove placement, chimney placement and configuration, etc. Very few hearth.com members are in that lucky club. Most of us bought a house with a stove, or bought a house and then decided to put a stove in it, and simply had to work with what we had.

There are many factors to consider, and I would recommend putting in some hours reading hearth.com threads before making any decisions. It may seem like a lot of work, but it could be the difference between a flawed installation that you come to regret, and one that works well for you and your family.

 

[illini81]

What about putting the stove in a corner? That would preserve wall space for the TV, and you could send the chimney straight up, through the corner of the room above and out the roof?

 

[illini81]

I know there's a thread on here somewhere that solely consists of pictures of people's installations. I know I found that very helpful in trying to narrow down what type of installation would work best for us.

 

[zvholk]

I know there's a thread on here somewhere that solely consists of pictures of people's installations. I know I found that very helpful in trying to narrow down what type of installation would work best for us.

I’d like to see that. I think everyone likes pictures

 

[Bad LP]

Can you expand on that?

I didn't have to as it was mentioned with the wall acting like a giant heat sink is the primary reason and a thermal break helps but doesn't cure the heat sink. I'm also in a much colder climate and believe that an exterior chimney can have a tendency to cool the flue gases and helps create creosote.

Before my boiler installation I had a older Defiant in my basement and those hot flue gases heated up my 3 flue chimney and you could get the stone work in the LR up to around 100-120 degrees. Lastly all heat loss is contained within the living space. It's not a lot but it's something.

If I built another house I would have a hard time not having a field stone masonry chimney because they look impressive but I have learned here just how much money I could have saved seeing that I have an insert stuffed into the fireplace. There is zero chance I'd own a prefab fireplace.

 

[bholler]

I didn't have to as it was mentioned with the wall acting like a giant heat sink is the primary reason and a thermal break helps but doesn't cure the heat sink. I'm also in a much colder climate and believe that an exterior chimney can have a tendency to cool the flue gases and helps create creosote.

Before my boiler installation I had a older Defiant in my basement and those hot flue gases heated up my 3 flue chimney and you could get the stone work in the LR up to around 100-120 degrees. Lastly all heat loss is contained within the living space. It's not a lot but it's something.

If I built another house I would have a hard time not having a field stone masonry chimney because they look impressive but I have learned here just how much money I could have saved seeing that I have an insert stuffed into the fireplace. There is zero chance I'd own a prefab fireplace.

But a high efficiency prefab is totally different. Also a masonry wall does not have to be a heat sink. Yes if it has a masonry fireplace in it it will be. But just as a backpack for a stove almost all of that masonry can have insulation behind it. At that point it is thermal mass not a heat sink.

 

[jetsam]

But a high efficiency prefab is totally different. Also a masonry wall does not have to be a heat sink. Yes if it has a masonry fireplace in it it will be. But just as a backpack for a stove almost all of that masonry can have insulation behind it. At that point it is thermal mass not a heat sink.

But why go to all the effort to build a fake thing that looks like a fireplace but isn't when you can just put a stove in? It's new construction.

Not arguing that a big pile of bricks on an insulated or interior wall will hold a nice amount of heat, though. If you're planning on getting a terrible stove that can't burn overnight, that'd be a real plus.

 

[bholler]

But why go to all the effort to build a fake thing that looks like a fireplace but isn't when you can just put a stove in? It's new construction.

Not arguing that a big pile of bricks on an insulated or interior wall will hold a nice amount of heat, though. If you're planning on getting a terrible stove that can't burn overnight, that'd be a real plus.

Yes and if you get a stove that burns forever but cant put out enough BTUs to heat that brick up it would be a waste to.

There is nothing fake about a high efficency prefab fireplace. They work very well and can look great if finished well

 

[bholler]

But why go to all the effort to build a fake thing that looks like a fireplace but isn't when you can just put a stove in? It's new construction.

Not arguing that a big pile of bricks on an insulated or interior wall will hold a nice amount of heat, though. If you're planning on getting a terrible stove that can't burn overnight, that'd be a real plus.

I do agree a stove is much cheaper easier and gives you more choices. But absolutely nothing wrong with good prefabs.

 

[jetsam]

Yes and if you get a stove that burns forever but cant put out enough BTUs to heat that brick up it would be a waste to.

Lol jerk!

FYI, that very low 24x7 BTU output is super useful when it's 30-60 out. Give 'er a spin!

 

[bholler]

Lol jerk!

FYI, that very low 24x7 BTU output is super useful when it's 30-60 out. Give 'er a spin!

60 yes 30 no. This week I have been running 12 hour reloads. I could go a little longer but to work with my schedule it needs to be 8 12 or 24

 

[Solesurvivor78]

Thanks for all the great input. I have learned a lot and think I have come up with a compromise of all the factors I am concerned about.
First I will take the advice of keeping this an internal flue design. Tons cheaper then putting two stories of brick on the outside of the house.
I will have a mock fireplace built so my wife can have the mantel and the TV mounted on the wall above. I have attached a few pictures of this type construction for your review.

 

[kennyp2339]

Lol Tv above the stove.. between the heat and inevitable loose ash your asking to buy tv's every few years.