Installed Regency Insert by modifying Majestic factory built fireplace

[JG54]

I need advice as to what avenue to take in my recently revealed disturbing situation.
I recently had a Level 2 inspection of my chimney and wood burning fireplace insert system. The inspection completely failed. The install by a dealer was done November 2015, over two years ago. My inspector failed the system due to the following reasons: 1) The existing factory built Majestic fireplace, about 14 or 15 years old, manual states that no modification should be done to the UL-approved unit. The Regency manual also states that it should not be installed in a modified factory built fireplace. 2) The Majestic fireplace, two-sided fireplace was modified as follows: The refractory walls were removed, one side of was hacked away, removing a wall. The remaining walls are now just the sheet metal. The inspector found the installer had stuffed heat-resistant insulation very tightly around the insert, blocking all air flow around the insert, including the air ducts of the fireplace.
Now, considering the above, you'd think it could not get worse. The top of the insert has A PILE of flaked creosote that came down the chimney from between the flue and the liner that they installed. At first the inspector thought they had not cleaned the chimney before installing the liner which is true. But when he got on the roof and noticed the liner stopped below the top of the flue, and there was no cap around the flue,covering the gap between chimney and the liner, he discovered the creosote was falling down from this area, the roof, as it accumulated, all the way down the chimney to land on the interior top of the Regency insert!! Also the exterior part of the chimney is less than 10 ft from a wall of the house on a lower roof which is where the fireplace is, and the roof is lower than the main roof (and add-on fireplace room). The chimney is not up to spec for being that close to an exterior wall and is not high enough according to code, as it should be ten foot tall due to its proximity to a wall.
I bought the house almost ten years ago with the existing Majestic two-sided open factory built fireplace and the chimney as it was. My home inspector never batted an eye. (curse him)
My question is: Do you think the installer should take responsibility in reimbursing me for the costs of: ripping out the DESTROYED Majestic fireplace and building a new fireplace for the Regency insert? All of this is a complete redo, as the chimney system would have been designed to work with the Majestic insert, which went bye bye for this installation, rendering it's UL testing and approval VOID, my home insurance probably VOID, and risking my health, my grandchildren's health and LIVES! They destroyed my property - the Majestic fireplace, and they violated code, ultimately creating an extreme fire hazard. Thank you to anyone who reads and responds to my small novel, but the explanation in detail is warranted. Is there ANY fixing this besides a tear out of everything?
I AM CONSIDERING installing a beautiful gas fireplace but want THEM to pay me for the insert, haul it off; remove the destroyed Majestic fireplace (which could have been converted to a gas fireplace had they NOT destroyed it, and reimburse me for necessary installation of a high efficiency fireplace to replace the one they destroyed! I am sure I sound like I am venting (no pun intended) as I am! But I certainly appreciate any and all words of wisdom.

 

[bholler]

I need advice as to what avenue to take in my recently revealed disturbing situation.
I recently had a Level 2 inspection of my chimney and wood burning fireplace insert system. The inspection completely failed. The install by a dealer was done November 2015, over two years ago. My inspector failed the system due to the following reasons: 1) The existing factory built Majestic fireplace, about 14 or 15 years old, manual states that no modification should be done to the UL-approved unit. The Regency manual also states that it should not be installed in a modified factory built fireplace. 2) The Majestic fireplace, two-sided fireplace was modified as follows: The refractory walls were removed, one side of was hacked away, removing a wall. The remaining walls are now just the sheet metal. The inspector found the installer had stuffed heat-resistant insulation very tightly around the insert, blocking all air flow around the insert, including the air ducts of the fireplace.
Now, considering the above, you'd think it could not get worse. The top of the insert has A PILE of flaked creosote that came down the chimney from between the flue and the liner that they installed. At first the inspector thought they had not cleaned the chimney before installing the liner which is true. But when he got on the roof and noticed the liner stopped below the top of the flue, and there was no cap around the flue,covering the gap between chimney and the liner, he discovered the creosote was falling down from this area, the roof, as it accumulated, all the way down the chimney to land on the interior top of the Regency insert!! Also the exterior part of the chimney is less than 10 ft from a wall of the house on a lower roof which is where the fireplace is, and the roof is lower than the main roof (and add-on fireplace room). The chimney is not up to spec for being that close to an exterior wall and is not high enough according to code, as it should be ten foot tall due to its proximity to a wall.
I bought the house almost ten years ago with the existing Majestic two-sided open factory built fireplace and the chimney as it was. My home inspector never batted an eye. (curse him)
My question is: Do you think the installer should take responsibility in reimbursing me for the costs of: ripping out the DESTROYED Majestic fireplace and building a new fireplace for the Regency insert? All of this is a complete redo, as the chimney system would have been designed to work with the Majestic insert, which went bye bye for this installation, rendering it's UL testing and approval VOID, my home insurance probably VOID, and risking my health, my grandchildren's health and LIVES! They destroyed my property - the Majestic fireplace, and they violated code, ultimately creating an extreme fire hazard. Thank you to anyone who reads and responds to my small novel, but the explanation in detail is warranted. Is there ANY fixing this besides a tear out of everything?
I AM CONSIDERING installing a beautiful gas fireplace but want THEM to pay me for the insert, haul it off; remove the destroyed Majestic fireplace (which could have been converted to a gas fireplace had they NOT destroyed it, and reimburse me for necessary installation of a high efficiency fireplace to replace the one they destroyed! I am sure I sound like I am venting (no pun intended) as I am! But I certainly appreciate any and all words of wisdom.

Yes they should pay for it. But you are going to have to take them to court to get it.

 

[HomeinPA]

I need advice as to what avenue to take in my recently revealed disturbing situation.
I recently had a Level 2 inspection of my chimney and wood burning fireplace insert system. The inspection completely failed. The install by a dealer was done November 2015, over two years ago. My inspector failed the system due to the following reasons: 1) The existing factory built Majestic fireplace, about 14 or 15 years old, manual states that no modification should be done to the UL-approved unit. The Regency manual also states that it should not be installed in a modified factory built fireplace. 2) The Majestic fireplace, two-sided fireplace was modified as follows: The refractory walls were removed, one side of was hacked away, removing a wall. The remaining walls are now just the sheet metal. The inspector found the installer had stuffed heat-resistant insulation very tightly around the insert, blocking all air flow around the insert, including the air ducts of the fireplace.
Now, considering the above, you'd think it could not get worse. The top of the insert has A PILE of flaked creosote that came down the chimney from between the flue and the liner that they installed. At first the inspector thought they had not cleaned the chimney before installing the liner which is true. But when he got on the roof and noticed the liner stopped below the top of the flue, and there was no cap around the flue,covering the gap between chimney and the liner, he discovered the creosote was falling down from this area, the roof, as it accumulated, all the way down the chimney to land on the interior top of the Regency insert!! Also the exterior part of the chimney is less than 10 ft from a wall of the house on a lower roof which is where the fireplace is, and the roof is lower than the main roof (and add-on fireplace room). The chimney is not up to spec for being that close to an exterior wall and is not high enough according to code, as it should be ten foot tall due to its proximity to a wall.
I bought the house almost ten years ago with the existing Majestic two-sided open factory built fireplace and the chimney as it was. My home inspector never batted an eye. (curse him)
My question is: Do you think the installer should take responsibility in reimbursing me for the costs of: ripping out the DESTROYED Majestic fireplace and building a new fireplace for the Regency insert? All of this is a complete redo, as the chimney system would have been designed to work with the Majestic insert, which went bye bye for this installation, rendering it's UL testing and approval VOID, my home insurance probably VOID, and risking my health, my grandchildren's health and LIVES! They destroyed my property - the Majestic fireplace, and they violated code, ultimately creating an extreme fire hazard. Thank you to anyone who reads and responds to my small novel, but the explanation in detail is warranted. Is there ANY fixing this besides a tear out of everything?
I AM CONSIDERING installing a beautiful gas fireplace but want THEM to pay me for the insert, haul it off; remove the destroyed Majestic fireplace (which could have been converted to a gas fireplace had they NOT destroyed it, and reimburse me for necessary installation of a high efficiency fireplace to replace the one they destroyed! I am sure I sound like I am venting (no pun intended) as I am! But I certainly appreciate any and all words of wisdom.

Well.....in a perfect world you could call the installer and he'd take your call and then you could explain all the things they did wrong and how it was their responsibility to have done at least one or two things to code. They would agree with you and they would be happy make all these modifications at their own expense.

Real world experience likely dictates that you'll try to call them, maybe get someone to answer the first time until they know why you're calling and have your info on caller ID. After that you'll be lucky if they don't block your number completely. You'll try to drive by and reason with them and your blood pressure will go through the roof. At that point, about 2 months or so from now, you may actually try to call the Attorney General's office in your state to file a complaint, the BBB, post online at Yelp and Google and still nothing. Then you try contacting a lawyer, who for a fee will be happy to file a lawsuit, which also costs another fee, and put the entire thing into the system. Maybe, in a couple years if you're lucky, you might get a judgement for you and they you'll have to give the lawyer a third or so, and then you might be able to contract with someone to start the job. Maybe.

Likely outcome is that you sell the nice insert and get some money out of it, have the fireplace replaced with a new firebox or whatever it needs and you install your gas logs all this spring/summer and you have your fireplace to yourself by next fall. Good luck!

 

[JG54]

Well.....in a perfect world you could call the installer and he'd take your call and then you could explain all the things they did wrong and how it was their responsibility to have done at least one or two things to code. They would agree with you and they would be happy make all these modifications at their own expense.

Real world experience likely dictates that you'll try to call them, maybe get someone to answer the first time until they know why you're calling and have your info on caller ID. After that you'll be lucky if they don't block your number completely. You'll try to drive by and reason with them and your blood pressure will go through the roof. At that point, about 2 months or so from now, you may actually try to call the Attorney General's office in your state to file a complaint, the BBB, post online at Yelp and Google and still nothing. Then you try contacting a lawyer, who for a fee will be happy to file a lawsuit, which also costs another fee, and put the entire thing into the system. Maybe, in a couple years if you're lucky, you might get a judgement for you and they you'll have to give the lawyer a third or so, and then you might be able to contract with someone to start the job. Maybe.

Likely outcome is that you sell the nice insert and get some money out of it, have the fireplace replaced with a new firebox or whatever it needs and you install your gas logs all this spring/summer and you have your fireplace to yourself by next fall. Good luck!

Thank you HomeinPA for your wisdom of the worst case scenario. I have noticed that BBB complaints against them illicit a response and action from them for the most part. I have the name of the company 'President', as it that means anything, but will at least give it a shot along with the detailed report from the inspector who THEY RECOMMENDED. with pictures, etc. Next step will be complaint with IDAHO AG office. Idaho is one of the most conservative states, crack the whip! Thanks for responding. Any insight is most helpful as this is quite disturbing and depressing that I spent 3 grand on the INSERT but they destroyed my fireplace! Small claims court here I come! I live in a smaller pop area, and they are the only REGENCY dealer. Installing GAS fireplace goes against my basic needs to have independent heat, and with unlimited free firewood on my property... Call me fed up.

 

[bholler]

Thank you HomeinPA for your wisdom of the worst case scenario. I have noticed that BBB complaints against them illicit a response and action from them for the most part. I have the name of the company 'President', as it that means anything, but will at least give it a shot along with the detailed report from the inspector who THEY RECOMMENDED. with pictures, etc. Next step will be complaint with IDAHO AG office. Idaho is one of the most conservative states, crack the whip! Thanks for responding. Any insight is most helpful as this is quite disturbing and depressing that I spent 3 grand on the INSERT but they destroyed my fireplace! Small claims court here I come! I live in a smaller pop area, and they are the only REGENCY dealer. Installing GAS fireplace goes against my basic needs to have independent heat, and with unlimited free firewood on my property... Call me fed up.

You should be upset not only did they screw you they endangered you and your family. But the cost of replacing this mess will likely surpass small claims value.

 

[JG54]

You should be upset not only did they screw you they endangered you and your family. But the cost of replacing this mess will likely surpass small claims value.

You should be upset not only did they screw you they endangered you and your family. But the cost of replacing this mess will likely surpass small claims value.

yes, it is extremely upsetting as the goal was to have alternate heat supply, which also works great in a big room with vaulted ceilings, large windows, a hard to heat area. And it is January, daytime temp around 30 (could be worse). Idaho small claims can process cases over $5,000 if sued in the Magistrate Court. I do praise the Regency product however! This company's dealership will be in jeopardy, their reputation shot by the time I am done.

 

[HomeinPA]

Thank you HomeinPA for your wisdom of the worst case scenario. I have noticed that BBB complaints against them illicit a response and action from them for the most part. I have the name of the company 'President', as it that means anything, but will at least give it a shot along with the detailed report from the inspector who THEY RECOMMENDED. with pictures, etc. Next step will be complaint with IDAHO AG office. Idaho is one of the most conservative states, crack the whip! Thanks for responding. Any insight is most helpful as this is quite disturbing and depressing that I spent 3 grand on the INSERT but they destroyed my fireplace! Small claims court here I come! I live in a smaller pop area, and they are the only REGENCY dealer. Installing GAS fireplace goes against my basic needs to have independent heat, and with unlimited free firewood on my property... Call me fed up.

I'm sure Regency would be interested in hearing what their installer did. I'd guess at the least they'd be contacting them for a follow-up since their name is getting drug through the mud by association. You should be able to contact them and get the name for the regional rep for your area.

In as far as a possible solution - and I don't want to assume anything here so I'll start out with one question - is the original chimney from the Majestic fireplace still installed and attached to the top of the compromised firebox?

 

[JG54]

I'm sure Regency would be interested in hearing what their installer did. I'd guess at the least they'd be contacting them for a follow-up since their name is getting drug through the mud by association. You should be able to contact them and get the name for the regional rep for your area.

In as far as a possible solution - and I don't want to assume anything here so I'll start out with one question - is the original chimney from the Majestic fireplace still installed and attached to the top of the compromised firebox?

Yes, Regency will be hearing from me. I fully intend to notify them as to the extreme negligence of their retail 'Dealer' . I have not devised my strategy as of yet, as far as who to notify first - the dealer, see what he says, then if crappy response, forge on with retributions.
The original chimney is still installed, yes, the installer fitted the fireplace insert with their flex liner, which is not tall enough, and is not capped at the top, so allowing creosote coming up the liner to fall back into the gap and down the chimney to the top of the insert firebox.

 

[jatoxico]

Pictures, pictures and more pictures. Document everything.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Ultimately it was stories like this about "professional" installs that convinced me to do mine myself (I was already getting bad suggestions from my dealer, and the previous sweep I worked with who relined my chimney for open fireplace use put in a too small liner so the fireplace smoked so bad it was unusable. Not to mention he quoted me an insulated liner which I found out was not insulated when I ripped it out for my insert install!)

Anyhow, this will likely get ugly but I hope you keep on pressing and win.

 

[JG54]

Ultimately it was stories like this about "professional" installs that convinced me to do mine myself (I was already getting bad suggestions from my dealer, and the previous sweep I worked with who relined my chimney for open fireplace use put in a too small liner so the fireplace smoked so bad it was unusable. Not to mention he quoted me an insulated liner which I found out was not insulated when I ripped it out for my insert install!)

Anyhow, this will likely get ugly but I hope you keep on pressing and win.

Thank you for sharing your experience, and thanks for your wishes. What a nightmare for us all with unscrupulous dealers!

 

[JG54]

Pictures, pictures and more pictures. Document everything.

I have a detailed description from my inspector, who quoted both fireplace manual warnings, and took extensive pictures. Thank you. Nothing will be done over the phone, but emails.

 

[jatoxico]

I have a detailed description from my inspector, who quoted both fireplace manual warnings, and took extensive pictures. Thank you. Nothing will be done over the phone, but emails.

There you go. Good luck.