Installing liner for pe summit insert

[Prockncj]

I have a question on installing a 6 inch liner for a new insert.

I am scheduled to have it installed, however I would like to save 650$ if I did it myself.
Is this difficult to do, or any recommendations or “things” to lookout for if I did my own install?
The only thing that concerns me is going through the damper with the 6inch liner. The guy at the fireplace shop told me that they don't remove the dampener frame, just the door and then oval the liner through it.
What would the inside measurement of the damper frame have to be to oval the liner through?

And any other info anyone might want to add would be great!
Thank you for your time.

 

[bholler]

The only thing that concerns me is going through the damper with the 6inch liner. The guy at the fireplace shop told me that they don't remove the dampener frame, just the door and then oval the liner through it.
What would the inside measurement of the damper frame have to be to oval the liner through?

don't ovalize it cut the frame ovalizing is the half assed way to do it. Other than that what size flue is it and is it straight? you should also insulate the liner it will make it safer and preform better

 

[Heatsource]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/install_insert
this should get you started.
i definitely do not recommend oval liner. not as easy to clean properly, and ovalizing pipe reduces draft
(getting in there with a sawzall is the fun part of the job!!)

(bholler beat me to it)

 

[Tom Wallace]

you should also insulate the liner it will make it safer and preform better

I'm not sure this is true in all cases. I've read that chimneys in the center of a home usually don't need insulation as much. If the chimney is on an exterior wall, then I agree the liner needs insulation.

For cutting through the damper, I used an angle grinder on both of my flues. Works very well, but very messy. Seems to me like a reciprocating saw (sawzall) would be harder to move around in tight spaces.

 

[2PistolPacker]

My damper was 6" wide and the liner was 6.25" wide, they used a sawzall to cut the damper out and a 6" long piece of the metal frame off the rear wall of the damper frame, they wiggled the piece out with vise grips. If you have easy access to the top of the chimney and a helper to help support the liner as you slide it down the chimney it really is easy. Now if you don't get on roofs and/or cannot contort yourself to fit inside the firebox to cut the damper out, pay someone like I did. Now that I have seen it done there is nothing difficult about it. I took pictures of the various stages of my install and can send some if you would like to see them.

 

[Heatsource]

I'm not sure this is true in all cases. I've read that chimneys in the center of a home usually don't need insulation as much. If the chimney is on an exterior wall, then I agree the liner needs insulation.

For cutting through the damper, I used an angle grinder on both of my flues. Works very well, but very messy. Seems to me like a reciprocating saw (sawzall) would be harder to move around in tight spaces.

I'd say it is true in all cases, insulated liners produce better draft and are safer in every situation
(but especially true in cold climates, unlike the PNW)

any yes maneuvering a sawzall in the throat is tricky, but still much faster than a grinder (still slower than a good torch guy but alot less risk)

 

[begreen]

Unless the damper is locked in place when cutting, a grinder or hacksaw may be faster and a lot less teeth chattering than a sawzall.

 

[bholler]

I'm not sure this is true in all cases. I've read that chimneys in the center of a home usually don't need insulation as much. If the chimney is on an exterior wall, then I agree the liner needs insulation.

This is true as far as performance goes although it will improve performance that part is not as important as if it was an exterior chimney but as far as saftey goes it is more important unless you have the required 2" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to combustibles. And that almost never happens

 

[Heatsource]

Unless the damper is locked in place when cutting, a grinder or hacksaw may be faster and a lot less teeth chattering than a sawzall.

no way a hack saw is faster! it would rattle less though...
usually i hold the damper handle with one hand, and the saw with the other. if the handle is missing usually you can wedge a 2x4 or 4x4 in there

 

[BrotherBart]

I started to do mine with a Sawzall and the drama was just too much. Grabbed the hacksaw and cut it out in no time. Cast is easy to saw through.

 

[Hogwildz]

Insulate the liner, just do it! A warmer liner is a better flowing liner and a cleaner liner. Too skimp on liner in ANY installation, is ridiculous. Unless the installer is lazy, or doesn't want to make the efforts needed, or the home owner is cheap. Safety advantage alone makes it worth the added cost.

Angle grinder & sawzaw were used here, both had their advantages and disadvantages, and got the job done.
Be prepared to get very dirty, be ready for sparks a flying, and be patient.

 

[BigCountryNY]

Much like BrotherBart, I started with a Sawzall. I quickly switched in favor of the angle grinder, it worked much better. It's definitely worth the effort not to ovalize the liner, especially if you're using a double-walled liner. And to echo everyone else, insulate it. It doesn't cost THAT much extra in the grand scheme of things and will provide noticeably better performance and most importantly, it's safer.

 

[BrotherBart]

Unless the installer is lazy, or doesn't want to make the efforts needed, or the home owner is cheap.

 

[Hogwildz]

You like that do ya? I think you missed the smiley face button....

 

[BrotherBart]

No. You just got me on all three.

 

[Hogwildz]

No. You just got me on all three.

LOL, at least your honest. More than can be said for some others.
Ol fellers get a pass....

 

[Prockncj]

The guy I bought the insert from said he never insulates the liner, he only insulates if the flue is in bad shape. He said most of his installs he does not.
So to oval the liner is the hack way. Interesting, because I thought the same thing, I asked him if you oval the liner wouldn’t reduce the draft, he said no not at all.
2pistalpacker, I’ll take the photos please, I’m also going to send out photos of my flu etc.
To me it looks easy, I think I have a 12x12 flue, i'll have to check. so the liner drops down easy?
Is there a trick to make the turn off the smoke shelf?
It really makes sense to save the 650, the dam liner is 499. If I can have you experts guide me I can do this, I’m a mechanic buy trade. I was just worried if I did something wrong I don’t want to burn my dam house down.
Thanks

 

[2PistolPacker]

2pistolpacker, I’ll take the photos please, I’m also going to send out photos of my flu etc.
Thanks

Send your email address in our conversation. You should definitely consider insulating the liner. The guy on the roof wiggled the liner as it went down to the smoke shelf. The helper went inside to guide the end past the smoke shelf and into the firebox where they attached the adapter.

 

[bholler]

I would say if you are a mechanic and you have a relatively straight 12 by 12 you should have no problems doing it yourself. I would recommend getting a 15 and 30 degree elbow though they are often needed to make the liner line up correctly at the bottom. And insulate it you wont regret it. Your installer sounds like a bit of a hack i would not use him the condition of the existing liners has absolutely nothing to do with the need to insulate a liner

 

[pigc]

I was told insulation would not fit for my interior chimney (8x13 terra cotta). Inside diameter is just over 6". Should I use a 5.5" smooth interior liner? Guess that will still connect into a 6" insert? Any other options to insulate without ovalizing? Do I have to do the type where it's poured down the chimney?

 

[bholler]

I was told insulation would not fit for my interior chimney (8x13 terra cotta). Inside diameter is just over 6". Should I use a 5.5" smooth interior liner? Guess that will still connect into a 6" insert? Any other options to insulate without ovalizing? Do I have to do the type where it's poured down the chimney?

You can ovalize or break out liners pour in would still not give you enough insulation with out ovalizing And a properly ovalized liner is not a bad thing but a round liner that is just smashed at the bottom to go through the damper is not a good option. And by the way if you want to maintain proper sizing when you ovalize you should up size the liner to you loose volume when you ovalize. When we do it we ovalize a 7" for a 6" stove

 

[Davidram]

I am not a fan of insulating the liner of an interior chimney. The liner will heat the masonry and be an additional source of heat in the upstairs, much like a masonry heater. I once insulated a 35 foot liner and the draw was so strong that I never could get the air control to damp down the fire sufficiently at night.
As to removing the damper, I always wanted the option of removing the insert in the future and revert back to a fireplace.

 

[bholler]

As to removing the damper, I always wanted the option of removing the insert in the future and revert back to a fireplace.

If you cut it cleanly and in the right spot it can easily be put back. Or just go with a top sealer that seals much better anyway

I once insulated a 35 foot liner and the draw was so strong that I never could get the air control to damp down the fire sufficiently at night.

Put a damper in or restrict the intake more to compensate for the excess draft.

I am not a fan of insulating the liner of an interior chimney. The liner will heat the masonry and be an additional source of heat in the upstairs, much like a masonry heater.

If you have proper clearance that will be ok I still insulate every liner i put in regardless of clearances or not. I want my customers to heat with their stove not the pipe or chimney

 

[Davidram]

EPA stoves are limited in how far you can restrict the air intake. My Pacific Energy insert would require modifying the stove to restrict it any further and there is no place for a damper on an insert. Not that it is good idea to control a fire on a modern stove with a damper anyway.
I installed an insert in a center hall colonial with a liner and no insulation. It had a massive 3 flu chimney and the walls in the bedroom (plaster on brick) were always a toasty 120 deg.
It has always been a pet peeve of mine that these modern inserts dump so much excessively hot exhaust out the chimney with only a small noisy blower and 2 sf door radiating heat. Efficiency is measured by how much particulate escapes (EPA) and not by how much heat is radiated into the house. I think in terms of an integrated design where the entire system is taken into account. If you can extract more heat after complete combustion, then the fire can be smaller and there are less emissions including CO2.

 

[Hogwildz]

If your dumping that much heat up the stack, close the thing down more. At full down low, there is not that much flow to draw the heat your claiming up the stack.
Learn how to burn the thing before you start bashing it. And bragging about 120 walls is not something to brag about, just means your uninsulated liner is radiating heat to that entire masonry surface and transferring it out to the great outdoors up top as well as the rooms you claim it is heating.
Many folks control the modern stoves with damper and have no issues.
Cat stoves already extract about as much heat as a stove can get from a load of wood, have a cooler stack, and very low emissions.
Maybe you purchased the wrong stove.
Your brick and plaster is not a masonry heater, is nothing like a masonry heater, and while it may transfer a small amount of heat, will never put out any serious heat like a masonry heater.
The claims your stating are actually pointers to your inefficiency. Good luck with all that, and that lame argument.
Check please.